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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: Erathkid] #7729870 01/27/20 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Erathkid
Originally Posted by fouzman
Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
Wounded deer that are never recovered....


+1


+2. Go over to the green screen and read about all the deer wounded and not recovered. I've heard guys even say, " it happens to everyone, go get you another one. WRONG!



Yeah but you have to realize the crowd your dealing with.

They idolize guys like PigMan and think a Dodge is the best truck ever made


I wouldn’t use that group as an accurate gage of a bow hunters skill


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: txtrophy85] #7729884 01/27/20 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85


Yeah but you have to realize the crowd your dealing with.

They idolize guys like PigMan and think a Dodge is the best truck ever made


I wouldn’t use that group as an accurate gage of a bow hunters skill

Now you take that chit back! grin


It's hell eatin em live
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7729927 01/27/20 06:43 PM
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I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7729961 01/27/20 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Not on a percentage of Deer shot.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: don k] #7729974 01/27/20 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Not on a percentage of Deer shot.

Don't know what other folks percentages are. I do know on our archery only lease we were 8 for 8 this year on recovered deer. Glad our landowner prefers archery hunters.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7729992 01/27/20 07:36 PM
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First of all, whats the "green screen"?
Almost everyone is giving the same reasons and none that are surprising, but ill echo others. I think the reason most LO don't allow bow hunting is their perception(rather true or not) of a higher wounding rate. Also many don't want hunters on their property anymore than they have to. If the rule is set by some type of lease boss, or if the LO hunts too, then the reason could be the month head start by the bow hunters. ANY lack of like-mindedness among lease members can cause issues. I certainly agree the LO can do whatever he wants, but that wasn't the question.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7730000 01/27/20 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Not on a percentage of Deer shot.

Don't know what other folks percentages are. I do know on our archery only lease we were 8 for 8 this year on recovered deer. Glad our landowner prefers archery hunters.

I have had 41 animals taken in the last 3 years with rifles and have recovered them all. And I am also glad I don't allow archery hunters.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7730014 01/27/20 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Not on a percentage of Deer shot.

Don't know what other folks percentages are. I do know on our archery only lease we were 8 for 8 this year on recovered deer. Glad our landowner prefers archery hunters.

Take the shooter and practice out of it all together.

A deer can jump/duck an arrow but not a bullet.

I don't know what wind does to an arrow at 30 yards but I know shooting at vitals it better be a hurricane to knock a centerfire rifle bullet off by too much at 100 yards. etc.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: freerange] #7730018 01/27/20 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
First of all, whats the "green screen"?
Almost everyone is giving the same reasons and none that are surprising, but ill echo others. I think the reason most LO don't allow bow hunting is their perception(rather true or not) of a higher wounding rate. Also many don't want hunters on their property anymore than they have to. If the rule is set by some type of lease boss, or if the LO hunts too, then the reason could be the month head start by the bow hunters. ANY lack of like-mindedness among lease members can cause issues. I certainly agree the LO can do whatever he wants, but that wasn't the question.



its a perception based on assumptions and emotion rather than facts.


A weekend warrior who is inexperienced is a gamble when it comes to wounding game bow or rifle. All the animals we chased or lost were all shot with rifles, not bows.


Give me an experienced archer vs. a inexperienced rifle hunter any day


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: redchevy] #7730019 01/27/20 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by ChrisB
Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd be willing to bet that rifles wound WAY more deer every year in Texas than bows.

Not on a percentage of Deer shot.

Don't know what other folks percentages are. I do know on our archery only lease we were 8 for 8 this year on recovered deer. Glad our landowner prefers archery hunters.

Take the shooter and practice out of it all together.

A deer can jump/duck an arrow but not a bullet.

I don't know what wind does to an arrow at 30 yards but I know shooting at vitals it better be a hurricane to knock a centerfire rifle bullet off by too much at 100 yards. etc.



if the wind is that bad its gonna blow the arrow off at 30 yards then you don't take the shot.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7730031 01/27/20 08:22 PM
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Emotions are involved. I don't care what you say the rifle is superior, that is the end of it for me. There is a reason we go to war with guns now instead of bows and arrows.

I have and do hunt with a rifle pistol smoke pole and bow, I have no problem at all determining my most consistent sure thing is the rifle.

Just my opinion but if you have yourself convinced that a bow is better/more reliable I think your lying to yourself.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: redchevy] #7730033 01/27/20 08:26 PM
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Well of course a rifle is superior. that's a no brainer.


Modern archery equipment is a lethal and deadly alternative that when used within its capabilities is just as effective as a rifle on deer sized game. There are animals that I would not want to shoot with a bow; ie buffalo of any species, brown bear, etc. That's just me though.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7730038 01/27/20 08:31 PM
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The creation of separate seasons based on methods was clearly an effort to generate additional revenue for state wildlife agencies and grow markets for equipment manufacturers. With hunting license sales continuing to decline, there may come a time when these same groups realize they could sell more licenses by not playing favorites.


"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7730040 01/27/20 08:33 PM
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The last leas I hunted on was a mix of kids middle aged folks and old timers. I never once hunted a youth weekend in my life because part of the rules were no youth hunting because not all the hunters could hunt youth season. I asked to shoot a bow and was denied. But even if they would have let me use the bow I would have only been able to hunt during general season.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7730071 01/27/20 08:50 PM
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Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: Mr. T.] #7730081 01/27/20 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.

I know people are going to scream those figures are dated and archery equipment has improved... but damn those are big numbers right there.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: Mr. T.] #7730086 01/27/20 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.




That study is about as relevant today as would be a study comparing the crash fatalities between a Model T and a 2020 Ford Explorer

Even the most basic entry level compound bow is light years ahead of a compound bow in 1980. And you will never convince me that Horace Gore didn't intentionally doctor the study to paint the bowhunter in a bad light.


I don't think many of you understand the strides we have made in hunting technology in the last 30 years when it comes to archery, muzzleloading and shotguns. Its apples to oranges now.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: redchevy] #7730088 01/27/20 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.

I know people are going to scream those figures are dated and archery equipment has improved... but damn those are big numbers right there.


its also 40 year old data......


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: txtrophy85] #7730094 01/27/20 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.

I know people are going to scream those figures are dated and archery equipment has improved... but damn those are big numbers right there.


its also 40 year old data......

newest I could find, but I'm still looking.


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: don k] #7730095 01/27/20 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
I am wondering with all the crying about landowners not allowing archery if the bow hunters will do enough crying to the right people. Then it will become law that bow hunters can't be discriminated against and you have to allow that type of hunting. Now don't some of you bow hunters get your panties in a wad, I'm just messing with you.



Kind of like rifle hunters crying because bow hunters get to get in the woods a month earlier so since it isn't "fair" all seasons should be equal? Even though everyone has the same oppurtunity to pick up a bow, since they don't bow hunt it needs to be changed!!

rofl


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: WillowCity2506] #7730103 01/27/20 09:15 PM
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With a quick google foo I found that old study, then other articles and studies that showed an 80-90 percent recovery rate in more current times. for the record, I really only care to bowhunt anymore and went 3 for 3 this year. One thing that has not been stated is that while bowhunters may have a lower recovery rate than rifle hunters, I doubt they are putting arrows in as many animals as rifle hunters are shooting. So while recovery may be less, i bet overall animals killed whether recovered or not are considerably lower because of the rifles much extended range. So if keeping deer numbers up is wanted, seems that you would only want bowhunters on your place.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: redchevy] #7730111 01/27/20 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy

Take the shooter and practice out of it all together.



All things being equal, a rifle is definitely more efficient at killing than a bow. Also, if you take an experienced rifle hunter and an experienced bow hunter with the same amount of energy and time put into their trade, they are both equally efficient within their own right IMO. If you take an inexperienced rifle hunter and an inexperienced bow hunter, the rifle hunter has a better chance of a clean kill than the bow hunter. So, all things being equal, the rifle wins without much of an argument IMO.

But most bow hunters I know are very proficient and practice literally 100's times more than a rifle hunter. They are also more conscious of conditions, shot placement, angle of impact, etc. than rifle hunters (for the very reason that it isn't as important with a rifle).

But I will say that I have seen more people make a clean miss with a rifle than a clean miss with a bow. But a misplaced shot with a rifle is much more damaging than a misplaced shot with a bow...which can be good or bad.

Take Judds picture on this thread. That deer is fine. Take the pictures stx has posted in the past (and a few others) of head shots gone wrong. Or a leg shot. But with a rifle, the deer Judd posted would be dead.

I would never argue with a land owner about what he allows on his land but I would not hunt a place that didn't allow bow hunting. I wouldn't argue for more laws or a shorter season because someone got more hunts in by using another weapon. I have never used a muzzle loader but have no issue with someone getting two more weeks because they do.

My summary of this thread grin


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: Mr. T.] #7730114 01/27/20 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.

Sorry, but that is so outdated it has no relevance anymore. No comparison a bow made in 1972 and 2020. I'll accept the 80-90 percent loss with modern archery equipment. Still the facts are rifles wound far more deer every year than bows.

Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7730126 01/27/20 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB

Sorry, but that is so outdated it has no relevance anymore. No comparison a bow made in 1972 and 2020. I'll accept the 80-90 percent loss with modern archery equipment. Still the facts are rifles wound far more deer every year than bows.


Distorted figure for sure as there are hundreds of thousands more rifle hunters than bow hunters. When it comes to percentage shot at versus recovered, I don't think the facts would align with your argument.

Be like taking 100 rifle hunters and they lose 12 deer. Then taking 30 bow hunters and they lose 8 deer. Then saying "rifle hunters lose more deer." confused2


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Re: No Archery Allowed [Re: ChrisB] #7730129 01/27/20 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Here is data from a state study:
In a major study done in 1989 by Glen Boydston and Horace Gore, wildlife biologists at
the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, they compared data on archery and gun
wounding losses gathered at four wildlife management areas in Texas from 1972
through 1985. During this period, archers bagged 128 deer and wounded and failed to
retrieve 130 others, for a crippling loss exceeding 50%—revealing that for every deer
legally killed and recovered by a bowhunter, at least one or more deer were wounded
and left to die in a slow and painful manner. Gun hunters killed 2,266 deer and wounded
150 others for a crippling loss of 7%. Thus, only 1 out of every 14 deer shot with guns
was not retrieved.
In bowhunting, wounding and crippling losses are inevitable.

Sorry, but that is so outdated it has no relevance anymore. No comparison a bow made in 1972 and 2020. I'll accept the 80-90 percent loss with modern archery equipment. Still the facts are rifles wound far more deer every year than bows.

Im sure vehicles hit more deer than trains too. Wonder how many times more cars there are than trains.


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