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Dialing for mils/moa
#7718887
01/15/20 09:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585
hetman
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Meopta Optika6 3-18x56 DichroTech 4D 30mm FFP Riflescope (Link)Looking at this scope today and : It appears to be a great scope : its set up for dialing + & - 90 MOA with zero stop what would be bad/good/different about dialing MOA for known distance ? Not sure I asked that correctly : I understand mils - more along the lines of what do you win & loose dialing moa vs mils. This is probably a stupid question ! Thanks hetman (aka Steve)
Last edited by hetman; 01/15/20 09:25 PM.
"Lesser mortals are pitied for the misfortune in not being born Texan."
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7718892
01/15/20 09:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835
unclebubba
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Fireman will be along shortly to slap you for thinking about MOA over MIL. The way I look at it, it is like saying SAE and Metric. They are both units of measure and both will get you to the same spot, just that one measurement will be in MIL and one will be in MOA.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: unclebubba]
#7718906
01/15/20 09:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,158
wp75169
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Fireman will be along shortly to slap you for thinking about MOA over MIL. The way I look at it, it is like saying SAE and Metric. They are both units of measure and both will get you to the same spot, just that one measurement will be in MIL and one will be in MOA. And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7718919
01/15/20 09:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G.
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Scroll down to Mils vs MOA http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/blog/Elevation dialing, it really isn't a huge difference. But, your DOPE will be easier to remember in Mils. You'll see in the article I wrote, wind holds are way easier to mange in Mils. That is the most important factor to me, remembering the wind holds quickly. It is difficult enough to read the wind, I don't want to have to think about how much I need to hold for this much wind, at this much distance. The Mil values are an easy pattern. Many scopes, it is a lot more dialing to get to long range in MOA. Meaning if you have a 10.0 Mil per rev turret, you can get lots of cartridges out to 1000 yards and never exceed 10 Mils, so you stay in your first rev the whole time. With many MOA scopes, you are on your second rev earlier. For instance, if a cartridge with an MOA scope needs 22 MOA to get to the end of my range, and it is a 20 MOA per rev turret, you will rotate all the way around one revolution, plus 2 MOA, so you're up 22 MOA, and the scope is reading 2 MOA. On a Mil turret, that would be 6.4 Mil, still well within one rev, that goes to 10 Mil. That is because 1/4 MOA is finer than .1 Mil I can use both MOA and Mil, and I can teach anyone to use either one. All I own are Mil scopes.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: wp75169]
#7719409
01/16/20 12:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,320
Crews
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And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some. MOA is in finer increments, but this is only a real practical advantage for a very limited use case. For 99.9% of the time it is not a game changer. From a data management perspective, mils are much better. Numbers are smaller, and more intuitive to remember. For instance my 6.5 dope for 200/300/400 yards is 0.5/1/2 mils. Don't even need a calculator for that. Moving decimal places around on the fly is MUCH easier that adding/subtracting fractions. This is particularly salient when doing wind holds in the field. There is a "MPH" rule of thumb for making wind calls in mils. Basically, you take the first number of your bullet's G1 BC and that's the wind MPH gun you have. Hornady 140 ELD-M has a G1 BC of .646. So that bullet is a 6mph gun. Therefore, on a full value 6mph wind, my wind holds would be .2 at 200 yards, .3 at 300 yards, .4 at 400 yards, .5 at 500 yards, etc. Half value wind at 400 yards? Just take your 0.4 and split it in half... 0.2. Full value wind picks up to 9mph at 400 yards? 0.4 + 0.2 = 0.6 wind hold. It's extremely easy to do in your head. Calculator not needed. And no, there's no rule of thumb for MOA that is even remotely close to that easy.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7719471
01/16/20 02:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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You can do a mph gun in moa but your mph value is typically less. Line it up where you get 1.0 moa at 500yds and base it off that.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: Crews]
#7719486
01/16/20 02:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G.
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And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some. MOA is in finer increments, but this is only a real practical advantage for a very limited use case. For 99.9% of the time it is not a game changer. From a data management perspective, mils are much better. Numbers are smaller, and more intuitive to remember. For instance my 6.5 dope for 200/300/400 yards is 0.5/1/2 mils. Don't even need a calculator for that. Moving decimal places around on the fly is MUCH easier that adding/subtracting fractions. This is particularly salient when doing wind holds in the field. There is a "MPH" rule of thumb for making wind calls in mils. Basically, you take the first number of your bullet's G1 BC and that's the wind MPH gun you have. Hornady 140 ELD-M has a G1 BC of .646. So that bullet is a 6mph gun. Therefore, on a full value 6mph wind, my wind holds would be .2 at 200 yards, .3 at 300 yards, .4 at 400 yards, .5 at 500 yards, etc. Half value wind at 400 yards? Just take your 0.4 and split it in half... 0.2. Full value wind picks up to 9mph at 400 yards? 0.4 + 0.2 = 0.6 wind hold. It's extremely easy to do in your head. Calculator not needed. And no, there's no rule of thumb for MOA that is even remotely close to that easy. I write it this way. 140 gr 6.5mm (and many others) 5 mph at 3 or 9 o'clock. 200 .1 300 .2 400 .3 500 .4 600 .5 700 .6 800 .7 2-3 mph, cut it in half 7-8 mph, add 50% 10 mph, double No more math than that.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7719594
01/16/20 03:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835
unclebubba
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I did get a MIL scope on my .22. Haven't shot it enough in the wind to see if I really like it. As for elevation holds, it does not seem to be much different than MOA other than different values...but, I will agree that it IS easier due to the fact that 7.8 MIL gets me to 200 yards, whereas I think it was 24 MOA got me there. Less than a full revolution on MIL, more than a full revolution on MOA.
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7719612
01/16/20 03:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787
Buzzsaw
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SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Dialing for mils/moa
[Re: hetman]
#7720306
01/17/20 02:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,585
hetman
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I like meopta scopes- noticed this one for sale on the classifieds . there is no graduated lines on the DichroTech 4D recital will pass on it ,and see what else I can find. thanks for the reply's.
I have one meopta scope now and it works great as a low light scope will probably buy more of them
"Lesser mortals are pitied for the misfortune in not being born Texan."
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