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Dialing for mils/moa #7718887 01/15/20 09:24 PM
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hetman Online Content OP
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Meopta Optika6 3-18x56 DichroTech 4D 30mm FFP Riflescope(Link)

Looking at this scope today and :

It appears to be a great scope : its set up for dialing + & - 90 MOA with zero stop

what would be bad/good/different about dialing MOA for known distance ?

Not sure I asked that correctly : I understand mils - more along the lines of what do you win & loose dialing moa vs mils. This is probably a stupid question !

Thanks hetman (aka Steve)

Last edited by hetman; 01/15/20 09:25 PM.

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Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7718892 01/15/20 09:30 PM
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Fireman will be along shortly to slap you for thinking about MOA over MIL. The way I look at it, it is like saying SAE and Metric. They are both units of measure and both will get you to the same spot, just that one measurement will be in MIL and one will be in MOA.


Originally Posted by txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: unclebubba] #7718906 01/15/20 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
Fireman will be along shortly to slap you for thinking about MOA over MIL. The way I look at it, it is like saying SAE and Metric. They are both units of measure and both will get you to the same spot, just that one measurement will be in MIL and one will be in MOA.



And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some.

Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7718919 01/15/20 09:56 PM
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Scroll down to Mils vs MOA

http://www.precisionriflehunters.com/blog/

Elevation dialing, it really isn't a huge difference. But, your DOPE will be easier to remember in Mils. You'll see in the article I wrote, wind holds are way easier to mange in Mils. That is the most important factor to me, remembering the wind holds quickly. It is difficult enough to read the wind, I don't want to have to think about how much I need to hold for this much wind, at this much distance. The Mil values are an easy pattern.

Many scopes, it is a lot more dialing to get to long range in MOA. Meaning if you have a 10.0 Mil per rev turret, you can get lots of cartridges out to 1000 yards and never exceed 10 Mils, so you stay in your first rev the whole time. With many MOA scopes, you are on your second rev earlier. For instance, if a cartridge with an MOA scope needs 22 MOA to get to the end of my range, and it is a 20 MOA per rev turret, you will rotate all the way around one revolution, plus 2 MOA, so you're up 22 MOA, and the scope is reading 2 MOA. On a Mil turret, that would be 6.4 Mil, still well within one rev, that goes to 10 Mil. That is because 1/4 MOA is finer than .1 Mil

I can use both MOA and Mil, and I can teach anyone to use either one. All I own are Mil scopes.


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Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: wp75169] #7719409 01/16/20 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some.


MOA is in finer increments, but this is only a real practical advantage for a very limited use case. For 99.9% of the time it is not a game changer.

From a data management perspective, mils are much better. Numbers are smaller, and more intuitive to remember. For instance my 6.5 dope for 200/300/400 yards is 0.5/1/2 mils. Don't even need a calculator for that. Moving decimal places around on the fly is MUCH easier that adding/subtracting fractions. This is particularly salient when doing wind holds in the field. There is a "MPH" rule of thumb for making wind calls in mils. Basically, you take the first number of your bullet's G1 BC and that's the wind MPH gun you have. Hornady 140 ELD-M has a G1 BC of .646. So that bullet is a 6mph gun. Therefore, on a full value 6mph wind, my wind holds would be .2 at 200 yards, .3 at 300 yards, .4 at 400 yards, .5 at 500 yards, etc. Half value wind at 400 yards? Just take your 0.4 and split it in half... 0.2. Full value wind picks up to 9mph at 400 yards? 0.4 + 0.2 = 0.6 wind hold. It's extremely easy to do in your head. Calculator not needed.

And no, there's no rule of thumb for MOA that is even remotely close to that easy.

Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7719471 01/16/20 02:03 PM
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You can do a mph gun in moa but your mph value is typically less. Line it up where you get 1.0 moa at 500yds and base it off that.


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Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: Crews] #7719486 01/16/20 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Crews
Originally Posted by wp75169
And MOA is more precise. MIL is easier for some.


MOA is in finer increments, but this is only a real practical advantage for a very limited use case. For 99.9% of the time it is not a game changer.

From a data management perspective, mils are much better. Numbers are smaller, and more intuitive to remember. For instance my 6.5 dope for 200/300/400 yards is 0.5/1/2 mils. Don't even need a calculator for that. Moving decimal places around on the fly is MUCH easier that adding/subtracting fractions. This is particularly salient when doing wind holds in the field. There is a "MPH" rule of thumb for making wind calls in mils. Basically, you take the first number of your bullet's G1 BC and that's the wind MPH gun you have. Hornady 140 ELD-M has a G1 BC of .646. So that bullet is a 6mph gun. Therefore, on a full value 6mph wind, my wind holds would be .2 at 200 yards, .3 at 300 yards, .4 at 400 yards, .5 at 500 yards, etc. Half value wind at 400 yards? Just take your 0.4 and split it in half... 0.2. Full value wind picks up to 9mph at 400 yards? 0.4 + 0.2 = 0.6 wind hold. It's extremely easy to do in your head. Calculator not needed.

And no, there's no rule of thumb for MOA that is even remotely close to that easy.


I write it this way.

140 gr 6.5mm (and many others) 5 mph at 3 or 9 o'clock.

200 .1
300 .2
400 .3
500 .4
600 .5
700 .6
800 .7

2-3 mph, cut it in half
7-8 mph, add 50%
10 mph, double

No more math than that.


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Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7719594 01/16/20 03:47 PM
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I did get a MIL scope on my .22. Haven't shot it enough in the wind to see if I really like it. As for elevation holds, it does not seem to be much different than MOA other than different values...but, I will agree that it IS easier due to the fact that 7.8 MIL gets me to 200 yards, whereas I think it was 24 MOA got me there. Less than a full revolution on MIL, more than a full revolution on MOA.


Originally Posted by txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7719612 01/16/20 03:57 PM
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great scope BTW


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Re: Dialing for mils/moa [Re: hetman] #7720306 01/17/20 02:37 AM
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I like meopta scopes- noticed this one for sale on the classifieds . there is no graduated lines on the DichroTech 4D recital will pass on it ,and see what else I can find. thanks for the reply's.

I have one meopta scope now and it works great as a low light scope will probably buy more of them


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