texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Gunmetal, Ducker rich, J T, Thomas-J., ProfessorSnake
66097 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 95,457
bill oxner 60,131
stxranchman 55,408
SnakeWrangler 48,690
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,446
BMD 41,029
Big Orn 37,484
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics442,654
Posts6,422,115
Members66,097
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
Second Solar project mostly finished. #7715187 01/12/20 12:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
I have a 6.8Kw grid tie system on my house that has been working continuously since August 1, 2016.
The problem with a grid tie system is when the grid goes down, the grid tie system goes down with it.

I have been working on a battery backup system and collecting parts for it since January of 2019.
Have it installed now and working since September of 2019.
The main parts for this system consist of:
10 recycled 245watt 24V solar panels
16 180Ah 3.2V LiFePO4 batteries configured into a 24V 360Ah battery bank
A 2Kw 24v to 120 PureSine inverter for small loads
A Magnum Energy MS4024PAE Hybrid 24v to 120/240v Hybrid inverter
An ElectroDacus SBMS120 charge controller/battery management system
Various breakers, and 24VDC to 12VDC and 5VDC buck transformers for DC loads complete the system.

The battery system is designed to complement and integrate with the existing grid tie system.
Now, if the grid goes down, the MS4024 Hybrid Inverter can back feed the grid tie system and allow it to produce full power.
Right now, the battery system is powering my critical loads 24/7 and taking some of the load off of the grid tie system.
Critical loads include: Refrigerator, Freezer, Internet radio, routers, CCTV security system and some DC loads.
The DC loads include motion sensing LED lights in kitchen, hallway, bathroom, storeroom and bedroom so you can walk thru the house safely anytime!
There is also a 4 position smart USB charging station for cell phones, tablets, laptops, etc.

Basically at this point I could go off grid if needed and still enjoy creature comforts.

Basic Layout:
[Linked Image]

Rack and panels:
[Linked Image]

Charge controller, inverters, etc. with batteries in box underneath:
[Linked Image]

DC load control section(not complete in this photo):
[Linked Image]


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715204 01/12/20 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,270
T
takewhatyoucan64 Online Mad
THF Celebrity
Online Mad
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,270
flehan


"Welcome to the desert of the real."
End of discussion and self analysis. Shoot the guilty and move on. Death is the only faithful thing in life.
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715224 01/12/20 01:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,618
H
Hancock Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
H
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,618
up up

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715230 01/12/20 02:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 935
S
soooo Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
S
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 935
up

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715231 01/12/20 02:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,043
Tbar Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,043
Well done....... up


Make America Great Again

[Linked Image]
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715380 01/12/20 04:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,928
J
jetdad Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,928
Would love to be able to do that but, it looks way above my pay grade. Good job! What is your approximate all in cost?

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: jetdad] #7715420 01/12/20 05:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by jetdad
Would love to be able to do that but, it looks way above my pay grade. Good job! What is your approximate all in cost?


Just a little over 11K for the 6.8Kw grid tie system and 5.5K for the 2.45Kw battery backup system.
I did all of the install and fabrication myself so I saved a good bit there but I'm retired and have time to burn.

The grid tie system takes care of about 90 percent of my electricity use and the battery system will take up the slack.
Basically, I'm renting the grid as battery backup for the 22.50 service charge - push the Kwhs up to the grid during the day and use those banked hours when the sun doesn't shine.

Here is a screen shot of the charge controller display that I monitor on an old LG tablet via the wireless AP in the charge controller.
The charge controller is designed specifically for LiFePO4 batteries and handles charging and balancing the batteries as well as monitor the loads and inverter.
In this photo, it's a little after 10am and batteries are well on their way to 100 percent while running refrigerator, freezer, all internet radios and routers AND a couple of small space heaters.
After the batteries are charged, I tend to look for ways to use the electricity rather than just let the controller turn off the solar input.
If you look at the charts, you can see the sun coming up about 8 and starting to charge batteries in yellow/dark pink PV1 and PV2 input.
To the right of that, you can see red/green Batp and Batn and can see the red load overnight that goes green as solar takes over load and starts charging the batteries.
The bottom shows the overnight loads then spike up when I turn on the heaters to use excess electricity.
[Linked Image]


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715422 01/12/20 05:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 95,457
dogcatcher Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 95,457
Impressive!!!


Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________

[Linked Image]
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715451 01/12/20 06:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,747
T
Tin Head Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
T
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,747
up


AMERICA------LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!!!
[Linked Image]
Whoever controls the media, controls the mind Jim Morrison
My fellow Americans, the Storm is upon us........

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: dogcatcher] #7715632 01/12/20 09:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,425
J
Jimbo1 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
J
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,425
Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Impressive!!!

I'll say!

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7715720 01/12/20 11:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,177
B
Big Fitz Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
B
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,177
That is outstanding! Is wind power worth considering or not worth the cost?


Originally Posted By: syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Big Fitz] #7715813 01/13/20 12:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by Big Fitz
That is outstanding! Is wind power worth considering or not worth the cost?


It's hard to say with the winds we have in Texas - at least where I am as average is about 5 MPH.
As a stand alone solution, it would be expensive to get a turbine big enough for a full house and there are still plenty of dead days.

I am right on the edge of being able to go off grid now.
The battery bank will handle my critical loads for 4.5 days without any sun but once I have the AC coupling finished I could go longer by turning on the large grid system and taking advantage of that extra 6800 watts.
Usually when it's cold and dark here, the wind is blowing so I am researching integrating a small wind turbine into the system to pick up the slack when it's too overcast to charge the batteries fully.
I can always fall back on the generator we use for our race trailer in an emergency now if I need to buy time between sunshine.
The charge controller/BMS system was designed by a guy from Canada and is pretty efficient and keeps up pretty well on slightly cloudy days.


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: takewhatyoucan64] #7715882 01/13/20 01:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,516
E
Erathkid Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
E
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,516
Originally Posted by takewhatyoucan64
flehan

No kidding. I've been wanting to do something similar. I would have to sub it out because I don't have a big old giant brain like you do. Cost benefit analysis wise, how long until it pays for itself?


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Erathkid] #7716122 01/13/20 01:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by Erathkid
Originally Posted by takewhatyoucan64
flehan

No kidding. I've been wanting to do something similar. I would have to sub it out because I don't have a big old giant brain like you do. Cost benefit analysis wise, how long until it pays for itself?


The ROI on the gridtie system will happen between 9 and 10 years if electricity stays the same price.
Most solar panels have a 20 year warranty so it should be good for a while after it pays for itself.
I went with all commercial grade NEW components on that system so paid a premium price for them.

Hard to say on the battery backup system.
The single most expensive part was the batteries themselves.
They are CALB LiFePO4 prismatic cells with 20-30 year life, 3000+ cycle life, wide usable voltage range and are much safer than Li-Ion and standard lead/acid batteries.
The down side of these cells is they are 3.2VDC nominal so you have to string them together in series of 4 for 12V or 8 for 24V.
When the batteries are in series, the charge comes in at each end and starts filling cells.
They may or may not charge at same rate due to internal resistance of each cell so you have to manage the batteries.

The ElectroDacus SBMS120 (Solar Battery Management System 120A) charge controller was designed from the ground up as a battery management system specifically for these batteries.
The designer lives in Canada and is entirely self sufficient and even heats his house with solar so he's pretty good at wringing watts out of solar panels in less than perfect conditions - I've seen my 2450 watt system make 2580 watts under ideal conditions and even managed to take a picture of the screen.
The BMS part monitors individual 3.2V cells in the string as they charge and can add additional amps to batteries that are slower to charge due to higher resistance and cut back on quicker less resistant cells to keep them in balance.
It can also control your inverters and generator auto start if you want it to.

The second most expensive part was the Hybrid Inverter due to the requirements I had and it produces really clean 120/240V Pure Sine wave output so clocks, computers, and other sensitive stuff runs perfectly.
It does lots of magic stuff and I am very careful with it and want to keep that magic smoke INSIDE.
It does excellent job as simple inverter and has charger built in but it's not optimized for these batteries so I have the charger turned off.
It can act like a UPS with grid feed thru that picks up off of batteries if grid goes down.
It also does lots of other tricks but the main one is AC Coupling.
If the grid goes down, AC Coupling allows me to use the battery back up system to "trick" the grid tie system into thinking the grid is back up and allows it to turn on so I can use that electricity.
That's a very simplified explanation of AC coupling as there are considerable safety interlocks involved to make sure I don't accidentally send power to the grid while linemen are working on it.

For this project, I bought used 24V 245watt solar panels to complement the 24V battery bank.
The panels are 2 year old premium panels that cost $810 for a pallet of 10 delivered or .33 a watt.
Buying used panels over new saved about $1600 and I will probably buy used panels from now on.

At this point in time using data I have so far, it looks like it will take 11-12 years to pay for itself.
On the flip side, if we have a power outtage that lasts more than a couple of days, saving my freezer full of hand raised grass fed beef and refrigerator full of food would be priceless.
Unfortunately, our grid will be taxed more and more as folks shift from fossil fuels to electric.
And it's only a good hacker/bad security guy away from being held hostage.


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7716232 01/13/20 02:49 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,797
CharlieCTx Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,797
Very impressive... I see you've figured out that smoke is what really makes things work. smile

How is there a market for used Solar Panels? I would assume, unless damaged, they would be used for their service life wherever originally deployed?

How did you learn about all the architecture (using a computer word) necessary to get this going and running?

Charlie

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: CharlieCTx] #7716373 01/13/20 05:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Very impressive... I see you've figured out that smoke is what really makes things work. smile

How is there a market for used Solar Panels? I would assume, unless damaged, they would be used for their service life wherever originally deployed?

How did you learn about all the architecture (using a computer word) necessary to get this going and running?

Charlie



Yessir, the magic smoke is usually expensive too.

Most solar systems were stand alone based on 12V or 24V systems so that is what was produced.
Generally, a 24V (nominal) panel has 50 cells.
In recent years, there was a move to Grid-Tie with higher voltage panels with 72 cells and then string together 10 more panels for up to 500VDC strings.
You can carry 10 amps at 500VDC with #10 wire and the higher voltage feeds back into the grid easier.
You can still string together 24V panels but you have to have more of them to get the voltage up.
Once Grid-Tie caught on, companies on the West coast started swaping out the older 24v panels of early adaptors for higher voltage ones so the market is presently flooded with 24V 60 cell panels.

I am a terminal tinkerer and love my toys and tend to take a lot of them apart to see how they work.
In doing that, I learned about the magic smoke and the correlation that the most expensive part usually vents first!
I also had some outstanding mentors that taught me a small part of their world and those worlds were far apart so they covered a lot of territory.
30 years in Operations, Quality Engineering and IT for a Big 3 DOD contractor was an education in itself.
I retired in 2011, got a college degree in Computer Networking and Administration more to prove to myself that I could do it than really needed it.
When not chasing cows and fixing fence or hunting pigs, I have plenty of time to study online.
I approach that like a Chinese Buffet - sample most of it and pick what work works or applies to me.
My real weakness is anything motorized...I am a crew chief of an IMCA Alcohol Modified that my son drives and an EcoMod that my granddaughter will drive next season as she is 14 now and transitioning out of karts.
I personally build the motors that go into them and am meeting lifelong friend for lunch today to pick up his SBC heads for a little love.


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7716510 01/13/20 06:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 48,690
S
SnakeWrangler Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
S
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 48,690
You lost me at solar panel.... flehan

Awesome skills....very, very impressive....


Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Milf does the trick.

"You're statistically more likely to be killed by Hillary Clinton than an NRA member. - PolitiDiva

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7716602 01/13/20 07:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,995
H
HoldPoint Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
H
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,995
Is this thread even in English.....? roflmao

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7716647 01/13/20 08:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 18,584
T
TXHOGSLAYER Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 18,584
Vern what have you determined to be the length of Tim to break even?


ASTROS 2017 WORLD SERIES CHAMPS!!

PATRIOTS 6 TIME SUPERBOWL CHAMPS!!

2002, 2004, 2005, 2015, 2017, 2019



Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: TXHOGSLAYER] #7716700 01/13/20 09:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,270
T
takewhatyoucan64 Online Mad
THF Celebrity
Online Mad
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 18,270
Probably 7 years at his investment.........maybe not exact but pretty close.


"Welcome to the desert of the real."
End of discussion and self analysis. Shoot the guilty and move on. Death is the only faithful thing in life.
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: HoldPoint] #7716863 01/13/20 11:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,116
O
Old Rabbit Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
O
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,116
Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Is this thread even in English.....? roflmao

I used to think the same thing. My oldest son is an Aerospace Electrical Engineer and I looking at some of the things he has worked on I asked the same thing. Well done Vern1.

Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7717481 01/14/20 02:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
V
Vern1 Online Content OP
Veteran Tracker
OP Online Content
Veteran Tracker
V
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,525
One of my mentors and boss at the time told me "After you associate with the engineers for a while, you will start talking and thinking like them and your brain is going to expand"
He told me this just before he threw me to the dogs and installed this ole country boy into the Advanced Aerospace Quality Engineering group on a major program.

This was the end result of that program:


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Vern1] #7720213 01/17/20 01:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,516
E
Erathkid Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
E
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,516
Impressive, Sir. flag


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: Second Solar project mostly finished. [Re: Erathkid] #7720472 01/17/20 12:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,243
T
TEXASLEFTY Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 14,243
Originally Posted by Erathkid
Impressive, Sir. flag


That’s an understatement


Originally Posted By: Chunky Monkey
Never been to a camping world. I prefer Dick's to be honest.
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3