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Ethics? #7695262 12/21/19 09:34 PM
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yakinthebox Offline OP
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So the other day I ran into a couple(2) other hunters on the way back to the truck. They asked how I did, I said, "5, but I lost one". I said, "y'all"? They said, "We shot 15 between the 2 of us but we lost 5"!

So in my opinion, they were 3 birds over the limit.

It has always been my stance that downed birds that are unrecovered should be counted towards your 6.

What is everyone else's stance on this? It kind of gets me really frustrated thinking about it.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695276 12/21/19 09:48 PM
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Define ‘lost.’

I agree, they’re three over.

Last edited by Duck_Hunter; 12/21/19 09:50 PM.

Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695285 12/21/19 09:57 PM
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I operate the same as you Yak. More important than my opinion though, Mr. Green Jeans will view it the same way.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695360 12/21/19 11:25 PM
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Honestly how do you lose 5 birds? That’s my problem with the whole situation. I’m guessing they never even attempted to retrieve those birds which sucks if my instinct is correct.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695387 12/22/19 12:07 AM
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A limit is what you take home with you to eat. No ethical problem. I don’t understand losing 5 though. They should invest in a dog.

Re: Ethics? [Re: Smokey Bear] #7695410 12/22/19 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
I operate the same as you Yak. More important than my opinion though, Mr. Green Jeans will view it the same way.

I do not think that is correct SB. The law is that you must make a reasonable effort to retrieve your wounded birds, but if you don't, it does not count against your bag.

Regardless if it counts against your bag or not, letting wounded birds get away is not good, not something you want to do.

Re: Ethics? [Re: 4Weight] #7695432 12/22/19 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 4Weight
Honestly how do you lose 5 birds? That’s my problem with the whole situation. I’m guessing they never even attempted to retrieve those birds which sucks if my instinct is correct.


Bc steel shot sucks.
Birds dive or land 100 yards away and you might not ever know it.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695458 12/22/19 02:01 AM
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That’s BS, if people would stop taking passing shots on ducks or shots at ducks not decoying losing ducks would not be an issue. Stop shooting at ducks 50 yards away and crippling them and you will not lose them, know your shot and don’t try a Hail Mary. It’s all part of hunting, learn to decoy ducks, if you can’t, don’t skyblast and you will not be losing ducks.
Sometimes it happens though, I think we have lost maybe 2 out of over 300 ducks killed so far this season.

Steel shot is still lethal, everyone complains about it but it still kills ducks in range just fine if your on the bird.

Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695472 12/22/19 02:17 AM
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I dont see how they lost 5 other than they put minimal effort into chasing downed birds.

Personally I dont count downed birds as my limit, but I out every effort i can into recovering a wounded bird. I've chased birds on foot in knee deep water hundred of yards trying to get a shot into them. When you hunt big water your going to lose some ducks. That's just the way it goes.

Re: Ethics? [Re: Guy] #7695476 12/22/19 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Guy
Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
I operate the same as you Yak. More important than my opinion though, Mr. Green Jeans will view it the same way.

I do not think that is correct SB. The law is that you must make a reasonable effort to retrieve your wounded birds, but if you don't, it does not count against your bag.

Regardless if it counts against your bag or not, letting wounded birds get away is not good, not something you want to do.

Guy,
The warden on my local lake has a well trained lab. The warden sits back and observes hunters from a distance, counting downed birds. When they show up if your count is lower than their count, that lab may find the rest of the down birds....if you are losing one out of every three birds shot, you would be likely to end up with a citation.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7695502 12/22/19 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by KWood_TSU
Originally Posted by 4Weight
Honestly how do you lose 5 birds? That’s my problem with the whole situation. I’m guessing they never even attempted to retrieve those birds which sucks if my instinct is correct.


Bc steel shot sucks.
Birds dive or land 100 yards away and you might not ever know it.


KWood. Well that is interesting. I and my friends in the blind have never even remotely come close to losing 5 birds. Maybe you or the guys mentioned in this thread take shots you shouldn’t be taking. I hunt a big flood control lake in OK and if the wind is blowing behind me and taking a downed bird out, I go get it. Right then. So what if another flight is coming In. To me it’s about respecting the resource.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: Duck_Hunter] #7695637 12/22/19 10:15 AM
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yakinthebox Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
Define ‘lost.’

I agree, they’re three over.



Meaning they downed the bird, but couldn't recover it.

I also lost a bird that day, but, I included it in my bag. Hince why I told them I got 5 but only brought 4 home. I downed a Drake Shoveler but it fell behind me in some real thick cattails. I spent 15 solid minutes looking for it with no luck. I went back about 20 minutes later and still couldn't find it. It happens. But it should be part of your bag.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: mohunter] #7695638 12/22/19 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mohunter
That’s BS, if people would stop taking passing shots on ducks or shots at ducks not decoying losing ducks would not be an issue. Stop shooting at ducks 50 yards away and crippling them and you will not lose them, know your shot and don’t try a Hail Mary. It’s all part of hunting, learn to decoy ducks, if you can’t, don’t skyblast and you will not be losing ducks.
Sometimes it happens though, I think we have lost maybe 2 out of over 300 ducks killed so far this season.

Steel shot is still lethal, everyone complains about it but it still kills ducks in range just fine if your on the bird.



Could not agree more. BTW, the one I lost is the first one I've lost this season.


If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready!
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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695741 12/22/19 02:27 PM
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I rarely loose a bird and I do not have a dog. This year I'm shooting all my "crap shells" . Shells I have accumilated and just need to get rid of. Its amazing how deadly they are if you get the birds inside your decoys.

That said if I'm at 5 and loose the next one and put the effort to try to find it and can't, I'll shoot the next one and leave.

Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695749 12/22/19 02:34 PM
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I haven't lost a single bird all season that I'm aware of.

Completely inexcusable to have lost 5 birds between two hunters in one hunt.

I only count the birds I recover.

Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695824 12/22/19 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by yakinthebox
Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
Define ‘lost.’

I agree, they’re three over.



Meaning they downed the bird, but couldn't recover it.

I also lost a bird that day, but, I included it in my bag. Hince why I told them I got 5 but only brought 4 home. I downed a Drake Shoveler but it fell behind me in some real thick cattails. I spent 15 solid minutes looking for it with no luck. I went back about 20 minutes later and still couldn't find it. It happens. But it should be part of your bag.


I think you did it right.

I just don’t see losing five birds as reasonable in any scenario. Either they need to pattern their guns, learn to shoot, practice or all three. They need to hold off on taking a shot until they have some possible way to retrieve it.

If the birds are being winged and sailing, find a way to walk over to where they are sailing. If they’re knocking them down but they’re swimming away, bring some 3.5” shells for putting cripples down, then bring a fishing rod or buy a cheap kayak to retrieve the birds.

There are many options outside of owning a dog. Everyone will eventually lose a bird. It just happens. But losing five is unacceptable and not counting them, when you know they’re down for the count, is worse.

I agree with your line of thinking.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695860 12/22/19 04:56 PM
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Thanks for y'alls opinions. Was really just needing somewhere to vent my frustrations. It still seems odd to me that people look and can't find it so they just write it off and shoot another. You still killed that bird!!! It should count as a harvest.

That's just my .02


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7695954 12/22/19 07:13 PM
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Over the limit. Shocked this is even a debate.

Re: Ethics? [Re: Smokey Bear] #7695969 12/22/19 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
The warden on my local lake has a well trained lab. The warden sits back and observes hunters from a distance, counting downed birds. When they show up if your count is lower than their count, that lab may find the rest of the down birds....if you are losing one out of every three birds shot, you would be likely to end up with a citation.


Based on the law, the question isn't whether you downed the bird, it's whether you made a "reasonable effort to retrieve it". If you're losing one out of three, sure, you're a knucklehead and should probably be fined, but it isn't based solely on shot-found count.

Here's part of the Waste of Game law from TPWD:

"It is an offense (Class C misdemeanor) if a person while hunting, kills or wounds a game bird or game animal and intentionally or knowingly fails to make a reasonable effort to retrieve it and include it in the person’s daily or seasonal bag limit."

Re: Ethics? [Re: kman2017] #7695971 12/22/19 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kman2017
Over the limit. Shocked this is even a debate.


No. Not necessarily. See the definition above.

What about if you shoot and see a puff of feathers, but the bird flies away no worse for wear? Does everyone here assume it's been gut shot and will get infected and die in a few days, and include it in their bag limit? I don't.

Last edited by ZachW; 12/22/19 08:01 PM.
Re: Ethics? [Re: zbot11] #7696035 12/22/19 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ZachW
Originally Posted by kman2017
Over the limit. Shocked this is even a debate.


No. Not necessarily. See the definition above.

What about if you shoot and see a puff of feathers, but the bird flies away no worse for wear? Does everyone here assume it's been gut shot and will get infected and die in a few days, and include it in their bag limit? I don't.


Birds flying off are completely different than dropping a bird in thick brush and being unable to find it.

Re: Ethics? [Re: 4Weight] #7696132 12/22/19 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 4Weight
Originally Posted by KWood_TSU
Originally Posted by 4Weight
Honestly how do you lose 5 birds? That’s my problem with the whole situation. I’m guessing they never even attempted to retrieve those birds which sucks if my instinct is correct.


Bc steel shot sucks.
Birds dive or land 100 yards away and you might not ever know it.


KWood. Well that is interesting. I and my friends in the blind have never even remotely come close to losing 5 birds. Maybe you or the guys mentioned in this thread take shots you shouldn’t be taking. I hunt a big flood control lake in OK and if the wind is blowing behind me and taking a downed bird out, I go get it. Right then. So what if another flight is coming In. To me it’s about respecting the resource.


Say what you want, steel shot sucks, and it's the reason for a lot of cripples.
I shot 4 ducks last weekend, and only one was dead. All 4 were 20-25 yard shots.
Had a wood duck dive and drown himself that was coming directly into me. No lead or anything to the shot, he was eye level, I was completely shocked at that.

I know my gun and capabilities, and i hate wounding birds, and i prefer decoying birds over passing birds, but it's not always rainbows and unicorns.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7696147 12/22/19 11:32 PM
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Wood, you pimp boss shot shells more than anyone on this board. Why are you still using steel? You make it sound like all you shoot is boss.

Re: Ethics? [Re: 2flyfish4] #7696190 12/23/19 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by 2flyfish4
Wood, you pimp boss shot shells more than anyone on this board. Why are you still using steel? You make it sound like all you shoot is boss.

Bc I still have steel to get rid of, I stocked up last year, about to get more boss though. This hevi steel is about to sit.


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Re: Ethics? [Re: yakinthebox] #7696629 12/23/19 02:31 PM
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I don’t buy it Wood. Modern steel shot shells are pretty good. At 20-25 yards the cheap stuff will stone any duck that flies and that holds true out to 40-45 yards.


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