texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Just Plain Tim, Chavez Linda, ahlongslide, Carey Thompson, Ebert's Hunting Club
66306 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 96,663
bill oxner 62,681
stxranchman 55,458
SnakeWrangler 50,301
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,446
BMD 41,029
Big Orn 37,484
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics446,541
Posts6,479,089
Members66,306
Most Online19,184
Feb 5th, 2020
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Back to square one #7678795 12/03/19 06:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
So I finally purchased a gong for shooting longer distance and had some time at the ranch to work on shooting out to 400 yards (I know, not terribly long, but longer than anything I had done before). Quick shot on paper at 100, then moved gong out to 200, 300, and 400.

Was doing well, although not as expected @100, 200, and 300. Could not hit the broadside of a barn at 400. Had no idea where shots were going, so took my paper taget out and put in front to see if we could get some idea where hits were landing. My shots were left, low, and off paper. Couldn't believe the "group" I shot, but thought, dang I must really suck. So my brother shoots some and I say, lets go back to 100 and re-verify our guns work...

I went from 2 inches high initially (sighted for 200 yard zero) to now shooting 6 ' low, next shot was 4" low, next shot 3"....now I was pizzed. I am not that bad a shot. Maybe gun was fouled? To quip, this was a gun pasting sub MOA groups with the same ammo I was using prior to this shooting excursion. I had a solid rest, not 100% perfect, but definitely solid. I was perplexed for a few seconds until I figured out the problem.

Why was I missing?


As a side note, my brother had scope that was "matched to his ammo and gun" and it worked really well out to 400. Nikon P308 set up for hornady Amax 168gr. I was shocked how well the reticle subtensions worked in real life. However, he didn't realize the scope turrets didn't lock. When we first shot at 100 he was 3" low, so we adjusted up and got him on target, and then I showed him how to pull out the turret and "re-zero" the turret and pop it back in. Told him he needs to make sure those are always at zero when he shoots because they can be knocked around in the case or handling or whatever. He simply didn't know. Now he does.

So, what was my problem?

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678813 12/03/19 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Please post the following information: Rifle, Optic, Rings/Bases, Caliber, ammo type/source, shooting setup (bipod/bags/bench/prone), shots fired since last cleaning, how long you let it cool between all this, and anything else you think can help us help you.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678827 12/03/19 06:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
You are over thinking it. I figured the problem out within a few seconds of seeing my groups at 100 wide open...

If you had a good shooting rifle, and then it didn't shoot well, what do you do look for?


But for completion sake:
Fierce Fury, 300wsm, hornady precision hunter 200gr eld-x, shooting with a Caldwell lead bag while sitting in a chair with the bag and gun supported by the back of a Kawasaki mule tailgate. Been less than 50 rounds since last cleaning.
Bushnell LRHS 4.5-18x50, murphy precision base, I can not for the life of me remember the rings I got but they were high end, and base and rings were torqued with a torque wrench to specs no loktite used.

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678841 12/03/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,190
J
jrgocards Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
J
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,190
Loose scope?

JR

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678856 12/03/19 07:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
Yeah, for some reason my base loose a little and jiggles. That isn't good for shooting, that's for sure.

So, despite torqueing to specs and coming loose, should I add some loktite to the base this time to keep the screws from coming loose?

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678888 12/03/19 08:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,656
Cast Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 21,656
Purple loctite only.


Cast

[Linked Image]

I have a short attention spa
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678963 12/03/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,198
J
Jgraider Online Content
Veteran Tracker
Online Content
Veteran Tracker
J
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 2,198
Blue loc tite for me. Sounds like a nice rig.

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678966 12/03/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,054
P
patriot07 Offline
Veteran Tracker
Offline
Veteran Tracker
P
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,054
I do use loctite. Especially with something like a 300wsm, they can come loose, even the good ones. I use blue myself.

agree with jgraider that it sounds like a real nice rig

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7678979 12/03/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
Thanks guys.

My brother was shooting a savage axis .308, and my rifles was slightly heavier but more powerful. After doing some shooting he said his shoulder was feeling it. I never felt it. I think there is a difference in recoil with gun/stock design as much as simply weight and ammunition. Mine does have a factory muzzle break, maybe that was the big difference? To me, my 300 wsm shoots like my 25-06, very manageable recoil.

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7684298 12/09/19 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,388
W
Wytex Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
W
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,388
Wow, 200 gr bullets pout of your 300wsm. What are you planning to hunt with it? I shoot 165-168 gr bonded bullets out of mine and the spouse runs 180 gr accubonds in his. My trajectory is a little flatter out to 350 than his.
We both have taken cow bison down to pronghorn with the loads and no issues, one shots kills on the bison.
Love my 300wsm recoil, my 308 hot loads do kick more I believe.

Re: Back to square one [Re: Wytex] #7684616 12/09/19 11:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 17,333
P
Pitchfork Predator Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
P
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 17,333
Originally Posted by Wytex
Wow, 200 gr bullets pout of your 300wsm. What are you planning to hunt with it? I shoot 165-168 gr bonded bullets out of mine and the spouse runs 180 gr accubonds in his. My trajectory is a little flatter out to 350 than his.
We both have taken cow bison down to pronghorn with the loads and no issues, one shots kills on the bison.
Love my 300wsm recoil, my 308 hot loads do kick more I believe.

I'm curious as well, why 200 gr.?


Marc C. Helfrich
Retirement Planner

www.insured-wealth.com
469-323-8920
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7684839 12/10/19 03:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.

Was just out at the place today and got my scope locked down with some locktite. Got some shooting in to get the scope sighted back in.
Despite less than ideal conditions, as the wind was howling around 15-25mph while I was shooting, I was able to get a six shot group within an inch, with 2 different sets of bullets hitting the same respective hole. Minus a few flyers this was easily a half inch group in these conditions. Pretty pleased with the way the 200gr eld-x shoot out of my 300wsm.

When conditions get better I will reverify the zero and then take it out to 400+. I actually found out I can shoot all the way to 675 on my place so maybe once deer season is over...

Re: Back to square one [Re: Jgraider] #7685241 12/10/19 04:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
G
garyrapp55 Online Content
Pro Tracker
Online Content
Pro Tracker
G
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
Originally Posted by Jgraider
Blue loc tite for me

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7685251 12/10/19 04:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 32,916
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 32,916
Sounds like you got it figured out. Like others I put blue loc tite on mine as well.

I see no reason not to shoot the 200's, higher bc than the 165-ish grain stuff and will perform just fine on deer and larger.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7685284 12/10/19 05:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,884
D
David Maas Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
D
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,884
Murphy Precision recommends blue or purple loctite

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.


Then you better find you a different bullet, I wouldn't trust any ELD-X to perform, to many negative reports and experiences


NRA Life Member
GOA Life Member
NSCA Life Member
Re: Back to square one [Re: David Maas] #7685374 12/10/19 06:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Originally Posted by David Maas
Murphy Precision recommends blue or purple loctite

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.


Then you better find you a different bullet, I wouldn't trust any ELD-X to perform, to many negative reports and experiences


Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Back to square one [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7685414 12/10/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
G
garyrapp55 Online Content
Pro Tracker
Online Content
Pro Tracker
G
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.


QSYB, it's modern day herd mentality. In this information age we can gather lots in a short amount of time which is not always a good thing. A guy on the net says it and 10 repeat it, before you know it, it's a herd. Sometimes the herd is headed to safety, sometimes it's a cliff, regardless, it's full speed ahead with little or no confirmation it's a good direction to run.

Re: Back to square one [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7685441 12/10/19 07:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,830
F
FiremanJG Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
F
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 30,830
Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted by Wytex
Wow, 200 gr bullets pout of your 300wsm. What are you planning to hunt with it? I shoot 165-168 gr bonded bullets out of mine and the spouse runs 180 gr accubonds in his. My trajectory is a little flatter out to 350 than his.
We both have taken cow bison down to pronghorn with the loads and no issues, one shots kills on the bison.
Love my 300wsm recoil, my 308 hot loads do kick more I believe.

I'm curious as well, why 200 gr.?


That's what I would load in it. I prefer heavier than 200 gr in .300 Win Mag.

200 gr in WSM is just right.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Back to square one [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7685461 12/10/19 08:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 32,916
R
redchevy Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 32,916
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by David Maas
Murphy Precision recommends blue or purple loctite

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.


Then you better find you a different bullet, I wouldn't trust any ELD-X to perform, to many negative reports and experiences


Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.

^ agree.

I have a very limited sample size of 2 at this point, but I have seen the eldx's to be more controlled expansion than prior interlock bullets I have shot. I don't know if its something they have changed with the jacket thickness etc. I do know the "interlock ring" on the eldx bullets is placed near the center of the bullet, a much better placement to me than their old design. Id shoot them heavy for caliber at larger game.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Back to square one [Re: garyrapp55] #7685463 12/10/19 08:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.


QSYB, it's modern day herd mentality. In this information age we can gather lots in a short amount of time which is not always a good thing. A guy on the net says it and 10 repeat it, before you know it, it's a herd. Sometimes the herd is headed to safety, sometimes it's a cliff, regardless, it's full speed ahead with little or no confirmation it's a good direction to run.


I agree. I found a thread on Rokslide where the guy complained after going 30 for 30 on several types of sheep and goats from 8 to 860 yds. He even admitted in several of the cases that bullet placement was not optimal and in one of the complaints talked about a great entrance and 2.5" exit. What the heck does he want? He appeared to be most upset that they were not Bang-Flop kills and that was what was really driving his narrative. Imagine 30 straight one-shot kills in a small number of days, every animal recovered, and all he could focus on was that a Tahr ran 75 yards after being shot.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7685517 12/10/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
G
garyrapp55 Online Content
Pro Tracker
Online Content
Pro Tracker
G
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,767
heartbreaking

Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7685611 12/10/19 10:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
Yeah, I have spent countless hours on rokslide and other forums looking at the ELD-X performance, or "lack of performance", and it seems most people have experienced a "bullet failure" none of the time and its all about shot placement, meat wastage (there's plenty on an elk so I am not worried about ruining a shoulder), or some other complaint about a non-DRT type kill. From most experiences, it sounds like the 200gr ELD-X pills do the job just fine if the shot is good and you aren't trying to push its limits. I won't be pushing a 900 yard shot. I want to keep the range to less than 600, and ideally less than 300, but I realize rifle hunting elk in the fields sometimes doesn't allow those, so I want to be prepared for up to 600. With this weapon, the KE @600 will still be above 1500 and that should kill a bull elk plenty good.

Blue locktite for the base. Have never needed it before on my other guns, but got it on this one now.

Re: Back to square one [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7685763 12/11/19 12:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,884
D
David Maas Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
D
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,884
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by David Maas
Murphy Precision recommends blue or purple loctite

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.


Then you better find you a different bullet, I wouldn't trust any ELD-X to perform, to many negative reports and experiences


Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.



Well, I have shot two whitetail with the 200gr X in the 300 WSM, pencil in and pencil out, firsthand knowledge of two Elk that had to have 4 shots each to get them on the ground, 200yds and 700yds 300 WM and 7mm WSM by someone on this forum that was on both hunts.

Enough for me to know that it's not the bullet for me. You want to use it, knock your lights out.

I have heard excuses such as not enough velocity, too much velocity. The sad part is it is a very accurate bullet, but if I am going to punch holes in something, it sure isn't going to be an animal.

Gary, you can retract your statement, these were firsthand, not something gleaned from the web


NRA Life Member
GOA Life Member
NSCA Life Member
Re: Back to square one [Re: Texas buckeye] #7685780 12/11/19 01:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
T
Texas buckeye Online Content OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,591
David, did the two WT deer die? My N=1 for WT deer with this round and the deer didn’t move once shot. Just bang flop. Again N=1 so not compelling.

On the elk, can you explain where the shots were placed and would you have expected another bullet to do something different? Seems animals are all different and what bang flops one animal will allow another to absorb more bullets before falling.
Were the elk recovered and were you able to see poor terminal damage or was that a situation where the hunter just wanted to anchor the elk and kept shooting until it fell? Just curious for more details really....

Re: Back to square one [Re: David Maas] #7685867 12/11/19 02:55 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Q
QuitShootinYoungBucks Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Q
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 11,435
Originally Posted by David Maas
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by David Maas
Murphy Precision recommends blue or purple loctite

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
200gr as this will be a bull elk gun, and want enough to put it down at 500+ yards.


Then you better find you a different bullet, I wouldn't trust any ELD-X to perform, to many negative reports and experiences


Do you have any to share? I just looked up a bunch of the supposed 'failures' and almost all of them weren't bullet failures at all, but failures on the part of the shooter either to put it in the right spot or to manage expectations. It's a bullet, not a magic pill. I think a lot of these people thought that not only should it kill their animal but skin it, gut it, and load it in the truck for them.

I HAVE NOT shot any large game with an ELDX yet, but the nearly 20 WTs I've shot with it haven't lived to testify that it performed poorly. So far autopsies show good performance.



Well, I have shot two whitetail with the 200gr X in the 300 WSM, pencil in and pencil out, firsthand knowledge of two Elk that had to have 4 shots each to get them on the ground, 200yds and 700yds 300 WM and 7mm WSM by someone on this forum that was on both hunts.

Enough for me to know that it's not the bullet for me. You want to use it, knock your lights out.

I have heard excuses such as not enough velocity, too much velocity. The sad part is it is a very accurate bullet, but if I am going to punch holes in something, it sure isn't going to be an animal.

Gary, you can retract your statement, these were firsthand, not something gleaned from the web


Thank you, David, that’s great information. I appreciate you sharing it. I recently picked up a 300 WM and a box of 200gr Precision Hunter. Depending on its grouping I may reconsider.


[Linked Image]

https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3