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Mar 25th, 2012
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Red Wolf, or a mix? #7675882 11/30/19 02:55 AM
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There’s an interesting article in the Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine December issue. The article is about the Red Wolf and Coyote mix, and where they are located. The Red Wolf weight runs about 50 pounds for a grown adult male, where a big male coyote would run about 33 pounds max. The reason that it interests me so much is that the coyotes I’ve terminated over the years generally weigh closer to 25 pounds, except for one that weighed an even 50 pounds. He was so big that I put him on my scale. I’ve always just assumed that he was a big coyote, but now I wonder if he was a Wolf/coyote mix. Per the article, the mix breeds would be in coastal areas, and I’m in Limestone county and a long way from the coast. Shoulda saved some DNA.

I wonder if I should call Parks and Wildlife, but all I have is body weight info.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7675927 11/30/19 04:39 AM
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I doubt if they would be interested without some kind of DNA. Personally I think there might be some red wolves, or hybrids left along the coast. Many years ago ('65 ) I went with some cowboys to gather some cattle off a big ranch somewhere near Freeport. We saw some big "coyotes" that had a distinctive red coloring and the old rancher told us they were red wolves. I haven't been down that way for years but it was pretty danged remote back then.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7676053 11/30/19 01:31 PM
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A big coyote could be a mix with a wolf. Could be a mix with a domestic dog. Could have both. Phenotypic (visible) traits are not going to be diagnostic with coyotes because they are a very plastic species that cross breeds a readily and relatively often with other species of Canis.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7680512 12/05/19 03:29 PM
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Hybrids are still around, sometimes in places you would never expect.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho...ographer-s-discovery-led-to-13545686.php


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7680625 12/05/19 05:03 PM
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I read that same article in TPW magazine last week in Dr. office.
Interesting read and the DNA information was not what you would expect.
I am sure that since there is red wolf DNA there, it is in other places.
It's interesting that even after interbreeding with coyotes the red wolf DNA is still strong.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: Vern1] #7681573 12/06/19 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Vern1
I read that same article in TPW magazine last week in Dr. office.
Interesting read and the DNA information was not what you would expect.
I am sure that since there is red wolf DNA there, it is in other places.
It's interesting that even after interbreeding with coyotes the red wolf DNA is still strong.



Yeah, i found that interesting as well.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7681816 12/06/19 07:39 PM
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Good read thanks for sharing. up


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7684866 12/10/19 03:57 AM
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I read an article that claimed that after DNA testing they actually weren't able to find any distinct Red Wolf DNA and that after testing the red wolves' DNA they only discovered coyote and Gray Wolf DNA which suggests that Red Wolves were actually never a distinct species but rather Gray Wolf/Coyote hybrids. That being said someone put me onto a book arguing that there actually is evidence that red wolves really do have their own DNA. I haven't had a chance to read it though.

With all of the DNA testing that's going on now it's getting interesting. They're finding that many different species/subspecies of animals are genetically the same animals. For example, Brown Bear, Kodiak and Grizzlies are all the same animal. Conversely they're finding that close to the West Coast some mule deer are breeding with blacktails which is problematic as it artificially boosts the antler growth and score of the blacktails. Consequently they're starting to do DNA testing to confirm that the trophy is a blacktail before entering it into the record books.

Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7684959 12/10/19 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
There’s an interesting article in the Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine December issue. The article is about the Red Wolf and Coyote mix, and where they are located. The Red Wolf weight runs about 50 pounds for a grown adult male, where a big male coyote would run about 33 pounds max. The reason that it interests me so much is that the coyotes I’ve terminated over the years generally weigh closer to 25 pounds, except for one that weighed an even 50 pounds. He was so big that I put him on my scale. I’ve always just assumed that he was a big coyote, but now I wonder if he was a Wolf/coyote mix. Per the article, the mix breeds would be in coastal areas, and I’m in Limestone county and a long way from the coast. Shoulda saved some DNA.

I wonder if I should call Parks and Wildlife, but all I have is body weight info.


Most likely just a large Coyote. Regionally...they can vary quite a bit in average weight. Our Coyotes (Deep East Texas) would dwarf (in weight and body fullness) most Central and South Texas Coyotes.


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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7685666 12/10/19 11:24 PM
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Interesting article.

Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7685857 12/11/19 02:48 AM
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There is no telling for sure. Many places in NC the coyote population is mixed with red wolf to the point that they are not sure where the coyote ends and the red wolf begins. Previously they thought red wolves were extinct until they were being exterminated as coyotes in some places. NCWRC started posting stuff on the website to hrlp farmers and landowners distinguish between the two. I believe in many cases even experts have failed to make the distinction between a red wolf and a coyote. Only way to know for sure is to test the genes.

Last edited by laid over; 12/11/19 02:49 AM.

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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: laid over] #7686498 12/11/19 10:52 PM
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Re: Red Wolf, or a mix? [Re: 603Country] #7686518 12/11/19 11:23 PM
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From time to time I will get a glimpse of (or game cam picture/video) of Canines that don't quite fit the 'normal' look of the Coyotes we have here (Deep East Texas).

Our Coyotes are typically in good shape and somewhat larger on average than you see in Central Texas or South Texas...so it's not the size, but something about the overall shape and particularly the look of their heads and shape of the eyes.

I don't think it has anything to do with wolves or wolf hybrids....but maybe Coy-Dogs?

Again, disregard color and size for the most part...since Coyotes can be marked very differently from one another, but I have seen individuals that don't have the classic Coyote looking head (tapered, pointed muzzle, ears situated at a slight angle).

I never see these crossing open pastures or coming up near the house...like the Coyotes do. I regularly shoot Coyotes from my back porch. All the pictures and Videos I have (and the few quick glimpses) have all been way back in the woods at the farthest point on my property. Don't know if that means anything or is just coincidence. The terrain is mostly thick Pineywoods with a few open pastures and the rest merges into Mesic Upland.




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