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Mar 25th, 2012
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Reasonable Lease Rules? #7670902 11/24/19 04:24 AM
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I'm strongly considering offering my 65ish acres in Lampasas County for an annual lease. It is completely undeveloped and surrounded by very large tracts of 1000 plus acres - some wooded and some cow pasture with a bit of brush and trees. It would be the first time and I have a bunch of "rules" I'd like to consider and would appreciate some advice (or add to it) if you would.

Since it is undeveloped - no water, electric, or septic/sewer, I would allow primitive camping only. (no travel trailers, RVs, etc.)
Lessee must pack out all they pack in and remove all trash of all kind
Family lease would be OK for direct parents and their kids only. No guests and no extended family, former wives, lovers, aunts, uncles etc., lol. Mom, dad, and kids. Period.
Can only take the total allowed for ONE license. I.e. could spread the tags across multiple people but ONLY one permit's worth of tags subject to lampasas county's rules
Common Game Animals in season are "fair game". Hogs and Coyotes are fair game. Any other animal - skunk, bobcat, squirrel, raccoon, rabbit, hare, frogs, lizards, snakes, etc. are permission only.
No offroad vehicles driving through the property other than to retrieve a kill. Given it is 65 acres any kill can be dragged out
No campfires of any kind
No human waste left behind - crap in a bag, bucket, or your car.
Access unrestricted during whitetail season from open to close
Access for remaining year with 1 week's notice.
Tannerite, target practice, setting up targets, etc. are not allowed. It's not a shooting range or vacation spot
6 weekends (Thursday midnight through Sunday Midnight) would be reserved by the owner of the land

Breaking any of above rules would forfeit access to land with NO refund.
Lease signer must be a current CHL holder. That's a pretty solid background check.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7670916 11/24/19 04:48 AM
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Here are more or less the basics of all of our leases, which includes a small 84 acre tract in Hale County.

We have electricity and water in Hale County and on a couple of our other spots, so they can have their trailers there, but on the other spots they pay for the utilities.
Primitive camping allowed, but take tents out when done and don't leave trash behind at all.
Campfires are okay if using dead wood or if bringing it in from another place.
No trash can be left behind at all, no exceptions.
Anyone on the property can only be there in the presence of primary lessee.
Harvest limits are dependent on the property; in Hale it's 1 mule deer buck and that is it.
Other game species are specified, dove is 3.5 times the daily bag limit, crane is what the law says the limit is, etc.
Predator hunting is banned in Hale County, I want to keep our coyotes and bobcats around. Good luck finding a hog on the place there.

Here's where we seem to really start to differ.
Unrestricted access period. They really need to be able to access the property whenever they can to check on their equipment (blinds, stands, feeders, cameras, etc.) as well as see what else they need to do to make hunting good on the place. I think it's vitally important to give them that kind of access so they can do that. It shouldn't interfere with their activities at all and on the lease we specify that they understand they are only leasing it for hunting, not pasture, crops, or anything else.
They can shoot as they need to, just be safe in it.

Here's the biggest difference.
You can hunt on the place as the landowner, but you need to understand this. These people are paying good money, their hard earned money, to have a place to hunt on. They need to have first rights to the place for hunting activities. That shouldn't be infringed on at all. They are paying a premium and deserve the benefits that should come with that premium.

Any violation of the lease terminates it immediately with no refund, that's 100% reasonable.
The LTC part is just an insurance policy for you, but valid to throw in I suppose.

A lot of your rules are fine, but some need some major adjusting.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7670934 11/24/19 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by noose

6 weekends (Thursday midnight through Sunday Midnight) would be reserved by the owner of the land



You do realize there are only something like 14 weekends give or take from opening of Archery season to the close of General Season. Most hunters work weekdays and only hunt weekends. To randomly take away dates of your choosing half their Deer season (more if they don't bowhunt) is going to make it nearly impossible to lease it out unless it is only for one, two guns at most, and very inexpensive compared to other leases. Not to mention who gets it on long holiday weekends when many hunters traditionally hunt. You might consider doing something like offering a full Archery season only lease and keep general season for you and family. That would eliminate the need for at least a couple of your other proposed rules as well.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7670968 11/24/19 12:17 PM
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Sounds terrible to be honest. You aren’t going to allow people to zero their rifles before season? And permission to take frogs? Seriously? If you are reserving weekends for yourself during hunting season you might as well day lease the place a couple times instead. Best you could put on here is one gun anyway. Also curious why no travel trailers? Generators and/or water tanks work great, just make them dump the septic off site. You sound like you don’t really want to lease the place in the traditional sense but want to make some money. That’s why I suggested the day lease thing.

Last edited by krmitchell; 11/24/19 01:16 PM.
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7670983 11/24/19 01:03 PM
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welcome But...

Pretty small place and I doubt many would look too hard with much interest, especially with that many restrictive rules and limited dates. Primitive camping, but no fires...while hunting? Come on. And honestly, I think travel trailers would leave less of a mess than primitive camping.

It's your property and you can do or ask whatever you want, but this reminds me of when I was looking at several ranches recently - some of the provisions, what the seller was going to keep, what they thought a buyer would agree to, etc. were completely asinine!


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671137 11/24/19 05:03 PM
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I wouldn’t lease under those rules if it was 10k acres much less 65.
Sounds like you just need to sell some day hunts on the weekends you are not hunting.

But not any more ridiculous than trying to lease 17 acres for 2500.00!

Last edited by huntwest; 11/24/19 05:04 PM.
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: Sniper John] #7671327 11/24/19 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper John
Originally Posted by noose

6 weekends (Thursday midnight through Sunday Midnight) would be reserved by the owner of the land



You do realize there are only something like 14 weekends give or take from opening of Archery season to the close of General Season. Most hunters work weekdays and only hunt weekends. To randomly take away dates of your choosing half their Deer season (more if they don't bowhunt) is going to make it nearly impossible to lease it out unless it is only for one, two guns at most, and very inexpensive compared to other leases. Not to mention who gets it on long holiday weekends when many hunters traditionally hunt. You might consider doing something like offering a full Archery season only lease and keep general season for you and family. That would eliminate the need for at least a couple of your other proposed rules as well.


I was speaking in terms of off-season weekends. I.e. only outside of the key hunting periods. Whitetail, of course and a couple of others would be unrestricted and I would stay away. Those 6 would be only for hog outside of any of the major seasons - i.e. whitetail, turkey, dove, etc. But I get it.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671330 11/24/19 10:00 PM
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Ease up there a bit guys, lol. I was asking for input and suggestions. I haven't offered it out or written said rules in an agreement. I will see if I can find some sample lease agreements online. If noone wants to lease 65 acres that are remote with lots of deer so be it.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: RPG1997] #7671336 11/24/19 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RPG1997
Here are more or less the basics of all of our leases, which includes a small 84 acre tract in Hale County.

We have electricity and water in Hale County and on a couple of our other spots, so they can have their trailers there, but on the other spots they pay for the utilities.
Primitive camping allowed, but take tents out when done and don't leave trash behind at all.
Campfires are okay if using dead wood or if bringing it in from another place.
No trash can be left behind at all, no exceptions.
Anyone on the property can only be there in the presence of primary lessee.
Harvest limits are dependent on the property; in Hale it's 1 mule deer buck and that is it.
Other game species are specified, dove is 3.5 times the daily bag limit, crane is what the law says the limit is, etc.
Predator hunting is banned in Hale County, I want to keep our coyotes and bobcats around. Good luck finding a hog on the place there.

Here's where we seem to really start to differ.
Unrestricted access period. They really need to be able to access the property whenever they can to check on their equipment (blinds, stands, feeders, cameras, etc.) as well as see what else they need to do to make hunting good on the place. I think it's vitally important to give them that kind of access so they can do that. It shouldn't interfere with their activities at all and on the lease we specify that they understand they are only leasing it for hunting, not pasture, crops, or anything else.
They can shoot as they need to, just be safe in it.

Here's the biggest difference.
You can hunt on the place as the landowner, but you need to understand this. These people are paying good money, their hard earned money, to have a place to hunt on. They need to have first rights to the place for hunting activities. That shouldn't be infringed on at all. They are paying a premium and deserve the benefits that should come with that premium.

Any violation of the lease terminates it immediately with no refund, that's 100% reasonable.
The LTC part is just an insurance policy for you, but valid to throw in I suppose.

A lot of your rules are fine, but some need some major adjusting.



Thanks for the CONSTRUCTIVE critcism and advice. Much appreciated.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671522 11/25/19 02:20 AM
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Imo with those restrictions you will play heck to lease it. Especially at that expense.


If I'm not hunting something I must be dead.
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671617 11/25/19 04:52 AM
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Was interested but, well, I'm out.


Originally Posted by Scott W

I've got a Little Chubby and it does a great job.
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671644 11/25/19 06:46 AM
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I understand being protective of the property. Some of the rules are common sense and some are overboard. But if you find the right person, the rules can be relaxed. But give yourself an out if it becomes a problem.

If I’m leasing something for a year, I expect some rights as well. I’m not giving a week’s notice, my schedule is to unpredictable. As many others.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671727 11/25/19 01:33 PM
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So what I was trying to do here was get constructive criticism for a set of manageable rules that both parties can live with. If you've got something other than, "That sucks, I'm out", I'd appreciate it sincerely as I want to come up with something that keeps irresponsible people from destroying it while allowing them unrestricted hunting access. "That sucks, I'm out" doesn't help at all. Why? I've modified it from the limited constructive feedback above to the following. If you would, please actually read it before commenting that would help, too. Again, thanks to RPG for your guidance. I have also considered the idea of a "rebate" wherein the lessee is refunded a portion of their lease fee at the end of the lease for following rules and keeping the property as clean as it was when they were granted access.

There is no water, electric, or septic/sewer so plan accordingly.

Primitive camping is allowed.

Small campfires are allowed as long as you have a fire extinguisher nearby and use only scavenged dead wood or wood you bring in. No trash burning. Absolutely no cutting down trees or cutting off branches are allowed. Fire must be contained in the limestone firepit at the campsite provided by landowner.

RV/Travel Trailers allowed. No onsite dumping of black or gray water. Must keep the RV parked close to the gate on the caliche pad provided by the landowner.

ALL trash of ANY kind must be removed including human waste.

Family lease only. Parents and their children (max of 4 people). No guests and no extended family or friends. All children under 18 must be supervised at all times by lessee.

Limits are those of Lampasas County under county restrictions. Limit is for ONE license total. I.e. tags can spread across multiple licensed hunters but ONLY one permit's worth of tags subject to Lampasas county's rules will be allowed. Whitetail are currently limited to 5 total with two bucks max. One buck must have 13”+ spread and one additional spike. Hunter is responsible for knowing and following Lampasas County rules and regulations for all game species.

No vehicles driving through the property at any time other than to retrieve a kill or fill a feeder.

Access is unrestricted all year with the exception of 4 weekends (Thursday midnight through Sunday Midnight) for landowner to conduct maintenance, inspect the property, etc. These 4 weekends will not occur during whitetail, dove, duck, turkey, or quail seasons so as not to infringe on hunter’s unrestricted access for hunting.

Shooter may shoot targets to zero weapons used for hunting but the property is not intended to be used as a shooting range beyond zeroing weapons. No Tannerite or other binary explosives at any time.

Hunter must register their kill(s) online using a google spreadsheet so that it can be tracked. A link will be provided and the hunter is expected to update the log within 24 hours of any kill.

Failure to follow the rules will result in expulsion from the lease without a refund.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: notamtchance] #7671745 11/25/19 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by notamtchance
Imo with those restrictions you will play heck to lease it. Especially at that expense.


I didn't quote a price. What do you mean? And which restrictions do you not like, specifically? Why?

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671860 11/25/19 04:02 PM
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Is whatever money you gained from this lease offset potential headache or disappointment ?

Your lease rules are fine

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671865 11/25/19 04:10 PM
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I like limiting the number of deer taken. I wouldn't lease a place I had to take my dump home in a bag. Build an outhouse.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: redchevy] #7671920 11/25/19 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by cabosandinh
Is whatever money you gained from this lease offset potential headache or disappointment ?

Your lease rules are fine


Maybe not... If it were me leasing someone else's place, I would treat it with the utmost respect. Perhaps my expectations are too high. If so I won't lease it. Period. I have read so many horror stories on the interwebs...

Originally Posted by redchevy
I like limiting the number of deer taken. I wouldn't lease a place I had to take my dump home in a bag. Build an outhouse.


Regardless of what people think, human waste leaches into the ground and can dramatically increase coliform bacteria and pollute well water -- even far downstream from runoff. All sorts of nasties are borne from human waste... typhoid, giardia, cholera, hepatitis A, and so on... Outhouses are a very bad idea and in most counties are illegal and/or heavily regulated. Taking a dump occasionally and shallow burying it is one thing. 4 people every weekend is entirely another. I don't crap on my own property or anyone else's for that matter. There are inexpensive, easy solutions for that.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671927 11/25/19 05:26 PM
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There are 2 ways of looking at the rules, from the view point of the land owner and from those who might want to lease his land.

From a land owner's perspective, I believe the last pass at the rules in fine, well thought out and fair.

Couple of points for the land owner to consider:

1. Bow hunting, yes or no in October?
2. Youth hunting season (s), yes or no? This means October and January hunting outside of normal gun season.
3. Muzzle loading season, yes or no.
4. Port O'Potty with lime? They can be bought fairly cheap.
5. "These 4 weekends will not occur during whitetail, dove, duck, turkey, or quail seasons so as not to infringe on hunter’s
unrestricted access for hunting." I would not limit my own access to my property. The possibility of the landowner
showing up at any time is a good thing. You do not need to make a pest of yourself but access does have it's merit.



Last edited by fishdfly; 11/25/19 05:28 PM.
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: fishdfly] #7671963 11/25/19 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
There are 2 ways of looking at the rules, from the view point of the land owner and from those who might want to lease his land.

From a land owner's perspective, I believe the last pass at the rules in fine, well thought out and fair.

Couple of points for the land owner to consider:

1. Bow hunting, yes or no in October?
2. Youth hunting season (s), yes or no? This means October and January hunting outside of normal gun season.
3. Muzzle loading season, yes or no.
4. Port O'Potty with lime? They can be bought fairly cheap.
5. "These 4 weekends will not occur during whitetail, dove, duck, turkey, or quail seasons so as not to infringe on hunter’s
unrestricted access for hunting." I would not limit my own access to my property. The possibility of the landowner
showing up at any time is a good thing. You do not need to make a pest of yourself but access does have it's merit.




1 - Yes, my intention is for the lease to cover bow, gun, youth, and extended season times.
2 - See 1
3. See 1
4. I'll look into that. There's a company that makes a port-a-potty that uses a double-lined bag with a gel that is super easy but is about $3 a bag. maybe I could provide a supply with the lease and get garbage service at the curb so it could just be tossed in there. I'll have to look into garbage service out there but there are 3 homes on about 4000 acres surrounding and 2 of the 3 still have inhabitants so I assume they get garbage service.
5. That's what I'm trying to figure out - I want right of access to work on the fence, downed tress, drainage, dig a well, bring in electric, etc. and make sure that the place isn't being trashed. Perhaps I just delete that part and state that I will be out from time to time to inspect, work, repair, etc. and work something out at lease time so I don't become a nuisance. That part can be open for sure. If the lessee is a "good person", there shouldn't be any issues, lol. I'm a very fair and honest person and expect that in return. I've received little of that in life, however.


Thank you very much for the feedback. I sincerely appreciate it.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671964 11/25/19 06:04 PM
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I would be out on these rules. But it’s your place so make what ever rules you want.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7671992 11/25/19 06:31 PM
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"If the lessee is a "good person", there shouldn't be any issues, lol. I'm a very fair and honest person and expect that in return. I've received little of that in life, however."

"IF", is kind of like "if" a frog had wings, he would not bounce his rear end when he hopped.

Cameras are the best friend a land owner has when he is not there. I have them on all my gates to monitor what goes on while I am not there.

One thing I have learned from leasing, I would not lease to someone who lives closer than 2 hours.

I often wonder when someone says, "I would be out on these rules", I wonder what kind of rules they would impose for renting out their house?

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: fishdfly] #7672040 11/25/19 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
"If the lessee is a "good person", there shouldn't be any issues, lol. I'm a very fair and honest person and expect that in return. I've received little of that in life, however."

"IF", is kind of like "if" a frog had wings, he would not bounce his rear end when he hopped.

Cameras are the best friend a land owner has when he is not there. I have them on all my gates to monitor what goes on while I am not there.

One thing I have learned from leasing, I would not lease to someone who lives closer than 2 hours.

I often wonder when someone says, "I would be out on these rules", I wonder what kind of rules they would impose for renting out their house?


Thanks again, Fish. Why the 2 hours? Are they usually reckless - i.e. planning required for a 2 hour trip and they tend to be more responsible? I am going to purchase at least two of the new spypoint cameras that can be monitored remotely and secure them as best as I reasonably can.

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: Erny] #7672041 11/25/19 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Erny
I would be out on these rules. But it’s your place so make what ever rules you want.


What specific rules do you have a problem with and why? What alternative or modification would you suggest?

Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7672106 11/25/19 08:47 PM
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Whatever lease rules you set, in lampasas county you'll find people that will agree. Fort Hood is right down the road, killeen/copperas cove too. Plenty of people nearby looking for a place to hunt. Try to find a eay to advertise fort hood if you can. I bet they will let you post up an add in the sportsmans center. Even with relatively cheap, good hunting on most military installations, soldiers just dont like all the rules of hunting on post. Checking in and checking out, etc. they just want a place to run away for the weekend and maybe get lucky and take a animal.


-Bryan

Yep, formerly regularguy11B
Re: Reasonable Lease Rules? [Re: noose] #7672107 11/25/19 08:48 PM
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noose,

When hunters can leave home and be on the "lease" in 25 minutes, they begin to think they own the place. They start hunting it 7 days week and the animals do not get any rest. They are there more than I imagined when I leased it to them.

When this lease agreement is up, I will re-think about leasing in general. I am beginning to think leasing may not be what I want to do, Folks want to change the agreement after the lease has been signed.


Last edited by fishdfly; 11/25/19 08:50 PM.
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