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Mar 25th, 2012
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Frustrated #7651511 11/04/19 02:53 PM
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I got out to the lease and checked my scope. It’s a pulsar apex. Made a minor adjustment and shot a couple more just to be sure. Sunday morning a very nice buck comes in and I decide to take the shot. The buck is broadside at 115 yards under the feeder when I fire. It’s a steady shot placed an inch above and behind the elbow. Should have dropped him right there. I was shooting Hornsby 168 gr BTHP Match .308 Win. The shot sound like a shotgun with fragments hitting the brushes behind the feeder. I thought to myself that didn’t sound right as the buck trots off about 70 yards. I’m thinking it was a pass through so I hurriedly line up another shot and put another in him when he slows down enough to fire. The second shot was not as well place as the first but I was thinking I all ready had one bullet in him. After some time I walk to the feeder expecting to find a impact spay and blood trail and I find nothing. No blood no hair, nothing. I make my way over to second shot where I find some impact spray and was able to track it about 75 yards when the trail played out. The buck had eventually made it to the bluff where the briers and horn thickets are impenetrable. Without a blood trail the dogs never found the track and I had to give up very frustrated.

So my question is, has anyone experienced a Hornsby BTHP match flying apart mid flight? My first shot was perfect, the gun is a heavy bull barrel A-10 that weighs maybe 14 pounds. Here’s the thing, this same thing happened during the ice storm a year ago. Took a shot and completely missed. At the time I blamed it on the cold weather affecting the scope or freezing rain on the muzzle of the barrel. But now I’m thinking it may be the bullet?


They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651524 11/04/19 03:04 PM
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I assume you meant the Hornady boat tail hollow point match / target cartridge.

Just one of the hazards of using a match/target bullet on game.

Yep, I know, lots of 'experts' say a match bullet is fine for thin skin game, obviously not a good choice for every application.

Hit that same deer with a 165gr gameking (federal premium loads this) or even a Rem corelokt, I doubt he would've gone more than a few steps with an accurate well place shot of course.
Simply put there are a ton of high quality hunting bullets to choose from much more suited for taking game.


Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651558 11/04/19 03:27 PM
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I've never shot Hornsby BTHP match so I can't comment of its performance... If I had any doubt what so ever regarding its performance I wouldn't use it.

I go simple... I only shoot Remington cor-locket ammo because it's never let me down. Once I've found the correct bullet grain to match up to each of my rifles I've always been set.


Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651572 11/04/19 03:34 PM
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Sorry for your troubles. Some things that stand out. Behind the shoulder does not typically = DRT. Did you see fragments or find their impacts behind the deer? I don't think you could hear fragments hitting at 115 yards after the shot.

Does the rifle has some type of muzzle device that isn't securely or properly fastened? Did you shoot it again after the hunt to try and figure out any issues?


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Frustrated [Re: redchevy] #7651671 11/04/19 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Sorry for your troubles. Some things that stand out. Behind the shoulder does not typically = DRT. Did you see fragments or find their impacts behind the deer? I don't think you could hear fragments hitting at 115 yards after the shot.

Does the rifle has some type of muzzle device that isn't securely or properly fastened? Did you shoot it again after the hunt to try and figure out any issues?

There isn't any kind of muzzle brake or Silencer mounted. My first thought was that I may have hit the fence wire which caused the bullet to break-up. I inspected the wire and there was no mark on it. Armalite recommends a BTHP Match grade bullet for the AR-10T. I tested these and some others and the Hornaby 168 gr BTHP Match bullets produced Moa groups for me.

As far as the sound, it was almost calm and I certainly heard fragments hitting the brush behind the feeder. If I had pulled the shot, would have had somehow lifted this 15 lb rifle a half inch to cleanly miss the deer. That's what is so frustrating, either this scope has some serious cold weather issues or these bullets are POS. Right now I'm leaning 80% toward bullet failure. The second shot was on a moving target through Mesquite branches and leaves. I heard the bullet pas through the leaves of the mesquite also and hit the buck. I would think if it were the scope that would have been a clean miss as well.

Last edited by HornSlayer; 11/04/19 04:58 PM.

They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651682 11/04/19 05:03 PM
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You got ears like a bat. I do not believe you can hear that. Sorry better luck next time.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Frustrated [Re: redchevy] #7651698 11/04/19 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
You got ears like a bat. I do not believe you can hear that. Sorry better luck next time.

While I disagree you may be on to something. My blind is a fully carpeted Fiberglass Pot-Belly that muffles the sound. No comparison to a Metal or plywood box.

Your right though, should not heard stuff hitting the brush a second after the shot. The only explanation is this.
The box says 2700fps muzzle and 2500fps @ 300', that equates to about .15 seconds to target. If the bullets separates say at 25 yards then the 35 to 50gr fragments would probably slow to maybe 1/10th the velocity or 300 fps thus hitting the brush that is 140 yards a full second after the shot. I'm thinking that is exactly what happened.

Last edited by HornSlayer; 11/04/19 05:40 PM.

They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651712 11/04/19 05:32 PM
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Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651744 11/04/19 05:54 PM
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Switch to hornady sst and continue your research


Amat Victoria Curam - Victory Loves Preparation

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Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651768 11/04/19 06:17 PM
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Maybe your rate of twist on the barrel is too fast for the type of bullet you are using and the bullet is coming apart in mid air. I would think maybe you would see that on target paper when shooting though. Something to look into if there isn't anything else.

Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7651770 11/04/19 06:19 PM
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Armalite may recommend a BTHP match for that rifle, but I'd be willing to bet that they do not recommend it for hunting. You will hear of a lot of people using match bullets for hunting, but you won't catch me doing that. Match bullets are made for accuracy. They usually have thinner, weaker jackets and are not made for holding together on impact. I would switch to a hunting specific bullet, sight it in, and go hunting. If the bullet is coming apart before reaching it's target, my guess is that you hit something. A branch or wire or something. There are a ton of good hunting bullets out there. My favorite - Nosler Accubond. Has never let me down.


Originally Posted by txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Frustrated [Re: unclebubba] #7652391 11/05/19 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
Armalite may recommend a BTHP match for that rifle, but I'd be willing to bet that they do not recommend it for hunting. You will hear of a lot of people using match bullets for hunting, but you won't catch me doing that. Match bullets are made for accuracy. They usually have thinner, weaker jackets and are not made for holding together on impact. I would switch to a hunting specific bullet, sight it in, and go hunting. If the bullet is coming apart before reaching it's target, my guess is that you hit something. A branch or wire or something. There are a ton of good hunting bullets out there. My favorite - Nosler Accubond. Has never let me down.


Good advice here. Eld X is also a very good hunting ammunition from Hornady. I would definitely try hunting ammunition.

Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652398 11/05/19 03:01 AM
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I prefer hunting bullets for hunting. Target bullets may be more accurate but they are only designed to hit the target with no engineering for terminal performance.


Scott

If you are looking for a mortgage, PM me about my Friends and Family rates.
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652403 11/05/19 03:08 AM
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The AR-10 is a popular target rifle, that’s why the manufacturer is recommending a target bullet.

As mentioned, use a hunting bullet for hunting. For deer and hog, anything from a remmy core-lokt to a hornady SST to a nosler accubonds will work fine

Re: Frustrated [Re: txtrophy85] #7652414 11/05/19 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
The AR-10 is a popular target rifle, that’s why the manufacturer is recommending a target bullet.

As mentioned, use a hunting bullet for hunting. For deer and hog, anything from a remmy core-lokt to a hornady SST to a nosler accubonds will work fine


Core-lokt has never let us down.

Son shot a nice 10pt at 200 yards this weekend. I pulled up to help load and looked the situation over--deer spun after the shot and dropped 3 yards away.

Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652461 11/05/19 04:35 AM
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A lot better choices in hunting bullets then match grade.


Thanks, Billy
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652517 11/05/19 11:58 AM
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In my defense, a disintegrating bullet was not something I figured into the equation. As far as terminal performance goes those bullets made a nasty hole. I did find some fragments once and noticed how thin the jacket is on this ammo. Never thought it would fly apart mid flight. The rancher is on the lookout for buzzards, so maybe it will show up in the next day or two. Makes me sick I decided to take that second shot. It’s hard to express how I feel about the whole deal.


They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652523 11/05/19 12:20 PM
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They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea

Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652576 11/05/19 01:24 PM
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While im not a proponet of hunting with match bullets, I know thousands of deer and hogs are killed with them every year. You can blame it on whatever makes you feel good, but I don't think the bullet was your problem.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652586 11/05/19 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HornSlayer
In my defense, a disintegrating bullet was not something I figured into the equation. As far as terminal performance goes those bullets made a nasty hole. I did find some fragments once and noticed how thin the jacket is on this ammo. Never thought it would fly apart mid flight. The rancher is on the lookout for buzzards, so maybe it will show up in the next day or two. Makes me sick I decided to take that second shot. It’s hard to express how I feel about the whole deal.


Its certainly 'possible', but I would think you would have had the same issue when target shooting (and thus notice) unless you happened to experience a single flawed bullet on your hunt.

But as so many others have mentioned....better to use hunting style bullets. Hopefully the deer will be found.

Thanks for sharing your experience.


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Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652588 11/05/19 01:31 PM
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I almost always agree with redchevy, but not this time. My suggestion is to use a bullet designed for the task at hand, and that is not a match bullet. And, I think his favorite is a Nosler Partition, and Noooobody uses that for match shooting.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652642 11/05/19 01:59 PM
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Any and all issues with the ammo would have been easily detected after taking plenty of practice shots. Do the math, the chances of a bullet flying apart after it has demonstrated no issues after 50 or even 100 shots would be very unlikely.

If you've taken only a few practice shots with the ammo, you're only guessing as to what caused the error. If you have shot the ammo a great deal and it did in fact fly apart, the issue was most likely caused by it hitting something other than the deer.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 11/05/19 02:33 PM.

Dan,

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Re: Frustrated [Re: Jimbo] #7652674 11/05/19 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo
They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea


Bingo. Sucks to have that experience, but at least you're learning from it.

Re: Frustrated [Re: txwildcat] #7652731 11/05/19 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by txwildcat
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
The AR-10 is a popular target rifle, that’s why the manufacturer is recommending a target bullet.

As mentioned, use a hunting bullet for hunting. For deer and hog, anything from a remmy core-lokt to a hornady SST to a nosler accubonds will work fine


Core-lokt has never let us down.

Son shot a nice 10pt at 200 yards this weekend. I pulled up to help load and looked the situation over--deer spun after the shot and dropped 3 yards away.


Core lokts are great in standard calibers for deer sized game. Not a complicated or sexy bullet but they work.

Re: Frustrated [Re: HornSlayer] #7652739 11/05/19 03:26 PM
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Try the Sierra Game King. I get mine at Academy, they are fairly priced.

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