texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Josh-04512, dblmikeusa1, Hog-Pro, 4Notch, Niknoc76
72042 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,795
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,517
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,848
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,785
Posts9,729,134
Members87,042
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7648762 11/01/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 474
JDP Ranch Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 474
Interesting post. I just picked up a 3x9 scope for one of the rifles that I plan on using for hogs. I spent way too much lately on other hunting-related gear (and a new truck) - so I had to keep the purchase within the "no questions asked" price range for my wife. I really wanted a 4-12x that was slightly more expensive but would've certainly brought up questions from the wife.

My father always said the same thing as the OP. My father has several 2-7 and uses a 3x9 for long-range shots. We've hunted Africa together and successfully took game with low power scopes. The guides there mostly use low power scopes. Personally, I like the thrill of zooming in... but at the same time... I've had trouble with follow-up shots when at higher magnification. Mostly with hogs.

That said... if I could've bought the 4-12x... I would've grin

Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7648813 11/01/19 01:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902
T
txtrophy85 Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
The variables are the best of both worlds. I like the general use of 6x for the field of view/target acquisition, but it’s also very nice to crank it on up to 12-14x once you’re on the animal if you have the time to do so.

I honestly feel 4x-6x is much too limiting in many shot situations. Certainly no need to limit oneself to that with all the great variable scopes available these days. It ain’t 1972 anymore.



my thoughts exactly.


I like having the option of a 12-14x


having it on 14x-16x makes those 400 yard pokes pretty dang easy


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7648860 11/01/19 02:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
It ain’t 1972 anymore.


I assume you believe the human mind and body works much differently today than it did in 1972?


No, what I mean is sometimes your perspective sounds as if it were right out if an “Outdoor Life” article from 1972. The knock on variables back then was their unreliability, plus the glass quality was not as good so clarity at higher magnification was a challenge. Thus, the general advice was to stick with a fixed power 4-6x.

Today, those are no longer issues with any decent quality scope. So one is unnecessarily handicapping oneself to not use a variable. Keep it on the lower power for target acquisition and then crank up as needed for the shot. Simple.

A 4-6x scope doesn’t provide nearly the precision for shot placement that higher magnification does.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7648870 11/01/19 02:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,071
S
sprigsss Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
S
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,071
I’ve heard this argument way too many times. I shoot tighter groups with higher magnification. If rattling or still hunting I keep my rifle on 5x-6x, if in blind it’s on max.

I want to hit a small spot behind the shoulder not somewhere behind the shoulder.

Do we need 14x? No it’s not needed. But if it makes one a more accurate shot why handicap yourself to a lower fixed power scope?

Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: TLew] #7648983 11/01/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
T
Texas Dan Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Originally Posted by TLew
stir (in line with most of Dan's posts as of late)


As a Learning and Development professional, I get paid to help organizations uncover why their people are not performing as they should. Sometimes that means having to introduce them to new technology and methods that have proven to be successful for others. And yet, there are other times when it's because they have gotten away from "best practices" that have withstood the test of time. In either case, if he means challenging the status quo, there will always be those who will see it as stirring the pot.

My wife is a retired school teacher who now works as a substitute. She commented recently how kids today are lagging their peers in other countries in their ability to read and write. It's nothing new to most teachers because they've been seeing it for some time now. We both agreed it was because some administrator somewhere, looking to make a name for themselves, decided the old way no longer worked and decided to create a new approach. And when teachers recognized the failure of the new approach in the classroom, the last thing they felt comfortable doing was to stir the pot.

Variable power scopes offer hunters more features and versatility no doubt. However, they have not changed how the mind and body works when trying to take aim. I would make the suggestion to anyone to try experimenting at the range by taking multiple shots with only a front rest (or no rest at all) at different scope settings and compare the results. It could offer them a very eye-opening (pun intended) experience.



Last edited by Texas Dan; 11/01/19 11:35 AM.

"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649009 11/01/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 456
M
MWTX270 Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
M
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 456
My old 270, that I hunt with most of the time, carries a fixed 6X Leupold. Couldn't dial up or down if I wanted to. Never thought I needed anything else. Thats what binoculars are for.

Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649069 11/01/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 227
W
wsjaxIV Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
W
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 227
I have a .270 with a 3x9 and a 7-Mag with a 4.5x14. I keep both scopes around 6x when shooting but will still dial the scope all the way up to see all that I can see before taking the shot. If I forget to dial it back down, it's always immediately obvious especially when holding over deer at 14x!


"The world is littered with the bodies of people that tried to stick it to ole J.R."

J.R. Ewing, 1981
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649206 11/01/19 03:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by TLew
stir (in line with most of Dan's posts as of late)


As a Learning and Development professional, I get paid to help organizations uncover why their people are not performing as they should. Sometimes that means having to introduce them to new technology and methods that have proven to be successful for others. And yet, there are other times when it's because they have gotten away from "best practices" that have withstood the test of time. In either case, if he means challenging the status quo, there will always be those who will see it as stirring the pot.

My wife is a retired school teacher who now works as a substitute. She commented recently how kids today are lagging their peers in other countries in their ability to read and write. It's nothing new to most teachers because they've been seeing it for some time now. We both agreed it was because some administrator somewhere, looking to make a name for themselves, decided the old way no longer worked and decided to create a new approach. And when teachers recognized the failure of the new approach in the classroom, the last thing they felt comfortable doing was to stir the pot.

Variable power scopes offer hunters more features and versatility no doubt. However, they have not changed how the mind and body works when trying to take aim. I would make the suggestion to anyone to try experimenting at the range by taking multiple shots with only a front rest (or no rest at all) at different scope settings and compare the results. It could offer them a very eye-opening (pun intended) experience.




Yes, there are times when lower power is more conducive to accuracy (or, more likely, target acquisition) in a hurry-up situation.
Q.Know what you do in those situations?
A. Use your low power.

But a variable gives you more options to fit more situations where higher magnification may be beneficial.

It's called a win-win. And there's really no cogent argument against it on this topic.

Honestly, if your job is to optimize personnel performance your arguments here and elsewhere cause me to wonder about your effectiveness in that job. Very often your ideas seem as if they were cemented in place sometime back in the '50s.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Erathkid] #7649218 11/01/19 03:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466
N
ndhunter Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
N
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466
Originally Posted by Erathkid
I keep my scope on 3x when walking to stand or sitting in stand. I crank it up to 9x for anything 100 yds or further. My old eyes need all the help they can get.


This is pretty typical for me to.

Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7649260 11/01/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,016
pertnear Online Content
"Demolition Man"
Online Content
"Demolition Man"
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,016
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
... Like most 'absolutes', less is more does not always hold true.

Well said. Most of my hunting these days is for culls. I also study a lot of bucks for age & points. I use a 6x-20x on my deer rifle. I do a lot more looking than shooting. When the time comes to pull the trigger & if I have the time, the scope setting ends up somewhere in the middle. But if its set at 6x to shoot, there is no handicap.


"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” - George Orwell
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7649369 11/01/19 06:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
T
Texas Dan Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Honestly, if your job is to optimize personnel performance your arguments here and elsewhere cause me to wonder about your effectiveness in that job. Very often your ideas seem as if they were cemented in place sometime back in the '50s.


I don't know why it took me so long to understand why often turn to personal attacks NP. You're an attorney, which means it's always your last option when you have no other evidence to offer a jury.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 11/01/19 06:23 PM.

"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649539 11/01/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,158
F
flintknapper Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
F
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 5,158
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
The saying "less is more" is true in so many ways, including the magnification you choose when hunting with a deer rifle.

I don't think I've ever started a thread that created more debate than one that focused on the need to turn the magnification down on your scope when taking shots. I know it sounds backwards to say that not making the deer appear closer is going to make for a better shot but the best shooters know it's true. You don't have to count the hairs to get off your best shot, as much as some try so hard to believe. In fact, some of the best shooters use fixed, 2X and 4X scopes because they're reliable and provide all the magnification needed to make shots that others would only make with the scopes set to it highest magnification.

It all has to do with how the mind, eyes, and muscles work together when taking aim at a target. I like to equate it to trying to stay centered in the lane when driving down the highway. Focusing on a more distant point keeps the mind and muscles from reacting to slight variances seen with the eyes in the same manner as using a higher scope magnification creates shakiness in the sight picture. Simply put, a higher magnification causes your mind and muscles to "chase" a point of steadiness the body cannot achieve. By turning the magnification down, you create a sight picture where the target appears more steady to the mind and eyes, yet still plenty good enough to know where the rifle is pointed. AND THIS TRUE WITH OR WITHOUT A SHOOTING REST.

I never hunt with my rifle's magnification set to anything higher than 6X, and will set it lower, sometimes much lower when hunting in closer quarters. In fact, the only time I'll turn it to it's highest setting is when checking targets at the range. Also, there are those who would religiously recommend only using a spotting scope at the range, and a good pair of binoculars in the field so there is no need to change the magnification to get a better or closer view of a deer. They don't want to find themselves having to play with the scope when it becomes time to make the shot.



Can you expand on this please. I am trying very hard to understand your meaning. I think you are alluding to something akin to 'Target Panic' in Archery and IF so...it would make more sense to me. I still would not think the correct solution to it would be to turn down the magnification necessarily, but I am willing to entertain the idea if it were a 're-training' technique.

I'm not challenging your position....so much as I am trying to dissect it. It just doesn't jive with my experiences in over 50 years of shooting (to include hunting, silhouette and long range).

Archery is actually my first love and I HAVE seen folks succumb to 'Target Panic' (some never getting over it). In those cases...the mental/psychological aspect of it affects the physical performance in an unwanted way. IF you are saying the same thing occurs to some shooters (aware of the movement of their rifle) then I can understand how reducing magnification might provide in a calming effect. I would argue it makes for better accuracy, or at least not for the right reason.

Anything you can add to your original post to help me better understand would be appreciated.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649564 11/01/19 10:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,694
6
603Country Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
6
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 15,694
Makes me wish I had a 1-6 power scope, so I could turn it down to 1 and totally rid myself of scope wobble.

Seriously, I did just fine at 4 power, back when I had a 4 power (gave it away about 2 hours ago). These days I’m fine at 8 power. Of course, I shoot off a rest (blind window sill). If no rest, I probably would turn it down some, or not take the shot. I’ve passed on many shots over the years, for various reasons, including the common reason that I just didn’t feel like skinning a deer today. Or the mud was too deep. Or something like that.

There is no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ magnification. Just do what you can handle, and I suspect that the better and more practiced shots can get by with higher magnification than the guys that shoot a couple of times a year.


Not my monkeys, not my circus...
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649608 11/01/19 11:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Anyone who has actually shot a rifle with their scope magnification above 6x knows that there are many situations when the advantages dwarf the disadvantages. The long usage and popularity of scopes with higher magnifications across the world proves their utility.

Only those that either don’t know this from experience or simply want to start an argument would say otherwise.


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7649723 11/02/19 01:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902
T
txtrophy85 Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Anyone who has actually shot a rifle with their scope magnification above 6x knows that there are many situations when the advantages dwarf the disadvantages. The long usage and popularity of scopes with higher magnifications across the world proves their utility.

Only those that either don’t know this from experience or simply want to start an argument would say otherwise.


At ranges of 200 yards plus is a definite advantage to more magnification


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Less is more when it comes to scope magnification [Re: Texas Dan] #7649755 11/02/19 02:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,124
N
ntxtrapper Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,124
My scopes stay on the highest magnification setting (12-14 power), unless there is something so close I feel the need to turn it down, or I'm in a dense area where I can only see 30-40 yards.

Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3