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Which tag to use? #7637704 10/21/19 10:39 AM
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If you have a buck with one unbranched antler side that also has a spread greater than 13", which tag must be used in an antler restriction county?

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637708 10/21/19 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Pootie
If you have a buck with one unbranched antler side that also has a spread greater than 13", which tag must be used in an antler restriction county?


Great question.

My answer would be use any buck tag, but mark the harvest record on the back of your license as the buck having one, unbranched antler. That way you would still be allowed a second buck, with or without an outside spread of 13 inches or more, given its a two buck county.

Best to check with your local TPWD LEO on this one.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/21/19 10:52 AM.

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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Texas Dan] #7637730 10/21/19 11:49 AM
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Re-read the Outdoor Annual whitetail section from the top and it excludes unbranched from counting against the 1 greater than 13. I have one on camera that posed the question in my mind...
Good answer TxDan.

Last edited by Pootie; 10/21/19 11:50 AM.
Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637766 10/21/19 12:26 PM
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You are confusing the definition of what legal buck deer is in those AR counties and actual bag limits.

On page # 66 in the Outdoor Annual


Special Antler Restriction – White-tailed Deer
Antler restrictions apply in certain counties (County Listings table, pg. 80–95). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers (i.e. a person who takes a buck in violation of the antler restriction regulation is prohibited from subsequently harvesting any buck deer with branched antlers on both main beams in that county during that hunting season).

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater "

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


---> TPWD Outdoor Annual 2019-2020

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637772 10/21/19 12:34 PM
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From Outdoor Annual -county-whitetail deer

White-tailed Deer
x
Species Info Archery Endorsement Required for Archery Hunting
North Zone
Bag Limit 4 deer, no more than 2 bucks, and no more than 2 antlerless, all seasons combined.
Antler Restrictions The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. A legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with: at least one unbranched antler; OR an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler). A hunter may also take ONE buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater in a different county with antler restrictions, and not to exceed that county's bag limit.

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637777 10/21/19 12:40 PM
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You would use a buck tag

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637780 10/21/19 12:44 PM
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Again you are confusing the definition of legal buck deer, with the actual bag limits for an AR county.

If you don't want to believe me & the written word you should send TPWD a question through this link --> TPWD submit a question <--- select Game warden ( law enforcement) in the drop down box, or call your local Game Warden.

Select your county in the drop down box ---> Find your Game Warden. & give him or her a call.


" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers (i.e. a person who takes a buck in violation of the antler restriction regulation is prohibited from subsequently harvesting any buck deer with branched antlers on both main beams in that county during that hunting season). "


You would use tag # 7, 8 or 9 - White tailed deer / Buck or antlerless.
Cut out the month & date, then fill in name of place killed and county.
Then on the harvest log on the back of your license, you would mark/check both boxes, buck box and the box with the (*) as instructed on your license if the buck has a 13” or greater inside antler spread and was harvested in an AR county.

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637806 10/21/19 01:01 PM
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Maybe the question was unclearly stated, maybe this will help. Does taking a whitetail with a spread greater than 13" with one side unbranched count as THE greater than 13" spread allowed for harvest.

Game Warden says no, get that one and still go after big boy.

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637824 10/21/19 01:14 PM
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What county?
Which Game Warden?

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637846 10/21/19 01:34 PM
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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Rustler] #7637856 10/21/19 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rustler
What county?
Which Game Warden?

The quoted bit Pootie posted above also said the 13 inch deer doesn't count if it has an unbranched antler.


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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Rustler] #7637858 10/21/19 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Rustler
You are confusing the definition of what legal buck deer is in those AR counties and actual bag limits.

On page # 66 in the Outdoor Annual


Special Antler Restriction – White-tailed Deer
Antler restrictions apply in certain counties (County Listings table, pg. 80–95). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers (i.e. a person who takes a buck in violation of the antler restriction regulation is prohibited from subsequently harvesting any buck deer with branched antlers on both main beams in that county during that hunting season).

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater "

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


---> TPWD Outdoor Annual 2019-2020



I think the highlighted in red removes the 13" designation/requirement. that is how I read it.


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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7637875 10/21/19 02:00 PM
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You can shoot a buck that has, for example, 7 on the right and an unbranched antler(spike or just a smooth main beam) on the left side and still be able to shoot a deer greater than 13”...

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Western] #7637993 10/21/19 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Western
Originally Posted by Rustler
You are confusing the definition of what legal buck deer is in those AR counties and actual bag limits.

On page # 66 in the Outdoor Annual


Special Antler Restriction – White-tailed Deer
Antler restrictions apply in certain counties (County Listings table, pg. 80–95). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers (i.e. a person who takes a buck in violation of the antler restriction regulation is prohibited from subsequently harvesting any buck deer with branched antlers on both main beams in that county during that hunting season).

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater "

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


---> TPWD Outdoor Annual 2019-2020



I think the highlighted in red removes the 13" designation/requirement. that is how I read it.


You're confusing the definition of a legal buck in an AR county with any AR counties bag limits.

What I posted is a direct quote taken from the Outdoor annual.

It is as clear as anyone can possibly make it.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

The above is the definition of a legal buck deer in an AR county.
You are correct, the 13" rule does not apply to a buck with at least 1 unbranched antler.
Doesn't matter if it is 5" wide or 24" wide if it has an unbranched antler.

Meaning there is no inside antlers spread minimum or maximum of a buck with an unbranched antler,, while a buck with both antlers branched must be at least 13" inside spread.

What does matter is the buck has an inside spread greater than 13".
Because of this you must check both the buck box and the over 13" box on the harvest log of your license.
Even a true spike one point each side that is over 13" wide, is still over 13" wide

It is illegal to kill more that one buck deer in an AR county with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers.

The buck the OP asked about has an inside spread greater than 13", doesn't matter if one side is unbranched because it does have an inside spread greater than 13"
To properly tag the buck, he must indicate on his harvest log the buck did in fact have an inside spread 13" or greater.

Then stated twice in the same paragraph of the regulations, to ensure people understand;

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater"

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


There are no spike tags, no unbranched tags, no doe tags on your hunting license, only white tailed deer Buck or Antlerless, and white tailed deer Antlerless only.
On your harvest log you check the boxes that accurately represent your kill.
There is no box or place to designate between anything other than Anterless only or Antlerless - Buck,,, in an AR county you are also required to check the box stating the buck has a 13" or greater inside spread.

The buck in question does have an inside spread greater than 13", failure to check that box would be considered improper tagging or falsifying harvest log & subject to penalty.

---> TPWD tagging a deer

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7638023 10/21/19 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Pootie
Maybe the question was unclearly stated, maybe this will help. Does taking a whitetail with a spread greater than 13" with one side unbranched count as THE greater than 13" spread allowed for harvest.

Game Warden says no, get that one and still go after big boy.


I get the technical argument that may be correct, but I’m with the GW on this one.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Rustler] #7638779 10/22/19 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Rustler
Originally Posted by Western
Originally Posted by Rustler
You are confusing the definition of what legal buck deer is in those AR counties and actual bag limits.

On page # 66 in the Outdoor Annual


Special Antler Restriction – White-tailed Deer
Antler restrictions apply in certain counties (County Listings table, pg. 80–95). In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers (i.e. a person who takes a buck in violation of the antler restriction regulation is prohibited from subsequently harvesting any buck deer with branched antlers on both main beams in that county during that hunting season).

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater "

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


---> TPWD Outdoor Annual 2019-2020



I think the highlighted in red removes the 13" designation/requirement. that is how I read it.


You're confusing the definition of a legal buck in an AR county with any AR counties bag limits.

What I posted is a direct quote taken from the Outdoor annual.

It is as clear as anyone can possibly make it.

In these counties, a legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with:
• at least one unbranched antler; OR
• an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler).

The above is the definition of a legal buck deer in an AR county.
You are correct, the 13" rule does not apply to a buck with at least 1 unbranched antler.
Doesn't matter if it is 5" wide or 24" wide if it has an unbranched antler.

Meaning there is no inside antlers spread minimum or maximum of a buck with an unbranched antler,, while a buck with both antlers branched must be at least 13" inside spread.

What does matter is the buck has an inside spread greater than 13".
Because of this you must check both the buck box and the over 13" box on the harvest log of your license.
Even a true spike one point each side that is over 13" wide, is still over 13" wide

It is illegal to kill more that one buck deer in an AR county with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers.

The buck the OP asked about has an inside spread greater than 13", doesn't matter if one side is unbranched because it does have an inside spread greater than 13"
To properly tag the buck, he must indicate on his harvest log the buck did in fact have an inside spread 13" or greater.

Then stated twice in the same paragraph of the regulations, to ensure people understand;

" In these counties, the bag limit is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater"

" It is unlawful to take more than one buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater or having two branched antlers "


There are no spike tags, no unbranched tags, no doe tags on your hunting license, only white tailed deer Buck or Antlerless, and white tailed deer Antlerless only.
On your harvest log you check the boxes that accurately represent your kill.
There is no box or place to designate between anything other than Anterless only or Antlerless - Buck,,, in an AR county you are also required to check the box stating the buck has a 13" or greater inside spread.

The buck in question does have an inside spread greater than 13", failure to check that box would be considered improper tagging or falsifying harvest log & subject to penalty.

---> TPWD tagging a deer


In an AR County, the 13” rule doesn’t apply to a buck with an unbranched antler but yet you still have check that it’s inside spread is greater than 13” if it’s greater than 13” ?

Last edited by Pintail711; 10/22/19 11:24 AM.
Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pintail711] #7638784 10/22/19 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Pintail711
In an AR County, the 13” rule doesn’t apply to a buck with an unbranched antler but yet you still have check that it’s inside spread is greater than 13” if it’s greater than 13” ?


That brings into question how to mark the harvest record on the back of your license since it only has a box for recording the buck as having an inside spread of 13 inches or more. In other words, if you harvest a buck with a 13-inch or greater spread that also has an unbranched antler, there is no way to record that. Should you harvest another wide-racked buck, your harvest record shows you have already taken one in that county.

Unless I'm missing something, it points to an oversight made by those who came up with the design for the harvest record. It should also include a box that notes the buck as having an unbranched antler so the harvest record doesn't appear like one that notes a wide-racked buck with two branched antlers. Otherwise, the hunter is left having to explain to an officer his earlier buck with a 13-inch spread also had an unbranched antler with hopes he/she will believe him/her.

Now if you check your license, you will notice the harvest record does include a box for noting the harvested deer as being a buck. However, the license instructions clearly indicate the second box is to be checked in addition to the first box when harvesting a wide-racked deer. This forces the hunter to mark both bucks in the same manner, making it appear he/she took two wide-racked deer in the same county, given the two were taken in the same county of course.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/22/19 12:00 PM.

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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Texas Dan] #7638949 10/22/19 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Pintail711
In an AR County, the 13” rule doesn’t apply to a buck with an unbranched antler but yet you still have check that it’s inside spread is greater than 13” if it’s greater than 13” ?


That brings into question how to mark the harvest record on the back of your license since it only has a box for recording the buck as having an inside spread of 13 inches or more. In other words, if you harvest a buck with a 13-inch or greater spread that also has an unbranched antler, there is no way to record that. Should you harvest another wide-racked buck, your harvest record shows you have already taken one in that county.

Unless I'm missing something, it points to an oversight made by those who came up with the design for the harvest record. It should also include a box that notes the buck as having an unbranched antler so the harvest record doesn't appear like one that notes a wide-racked buck with two branched antlers. Otherwise, the hunter is left having to explain to an officer his earlier buck with a 13-inch spread also had an unbranched antler with hopes he/she will believe him/her.

Now if you check your license, you will notice the harvest record does include a box for noting the harvested deer as being a buck. However, the license instructions clearly indicate the second box is to be checked in addition to the first box when harvesting a wide-racked deer. This forces the hunter to mark both bucks in the same manner, making it appear he/she took two wide-racked deer in the same county, given the two were taken in the same county of course.



^^^^^^
Exactly.

The ONLY plausible explanation is that an 'Aggie' wrote the antler restriction/harvest record requirements. How else...could it be so technically confusing.

AS WRITTEN, the restrictions would allow the following:

1. Legal harvest of ONE buck with branched antlers AND an inside spread of 13" or greater.

2. Legal harvest of ONE buck with a least one un-branched antler BUT with an inside spread of less than 13".

3. In counties with antler restrictions IF you were to first kill a buck with an un-branched antler AND it had an inside spread of 13" or greater....you are done (for that county). No legal opportunity to kill a branched antler buck (13" or greater), thus relegating the otherwise 2 buck county....null and void.

There is NO delineation on the tag (harvest record) to distinguish the two.

Doesn't make sense.

Hard to imagine the 'intent' was to include the antler 'spread' along with the un-branched (spike) requirement.

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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7639067 10/22/19 05:54 PM
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Antler Restrictions The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. A legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with: at least one unbranched antler; OR an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler). A hunter may also take ONE buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater in a different county with antler restrictions, and not to exceed that county's bag limit.



This tells me that even if you kill a deer with slick main beam or a spike on the left, and 5 points on the right and it happens to be 17” wide, that deer does not qualify for the 13” or greater rule. So you’re still allowed a deer with 2 branched antlers greater than 13”.... if I killed the example buck above, I am not checking that buck is over 13”.

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pintail711] #7639180 10/22/19 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Pintail711
Antler Restrictions The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater. A legal buck deer is defined as a buck deer with: at least one unbranched antler; OR an inside spread of 13 inches or greater (does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler). A hunter may also take ONE buck with an inside spread of 13 inches or greater in a different county with antler restrictions, and not to exceed that county's bag limit.

This tells me that even if you kill a deer with slick main beam or a spike on the left, and 5 points on the right and it happens to be 17” wide, that deer does not qualify for the 13” or greater rule. So you’re still allowed a deer with 2 branched antlers greater than 13”.... if I killed the example buck above, I am not checking that buck is over 13”.


IMO, because the words "does not apply to a buck that has an unbranched antler" is noted in the same sentence that covers the 13-inch minimum spread, it removes the 13-inch minimum spread requirement so that deer with a lesser spread are legal. However, the harvest record instructions clearly state there is a box to check when the spread is 13 inches or greater.

In the case described in the OP, the harvest cannot be correctly recorded so that it appears the hunter has the option to shoot another buck with a 13-inch or greater spread.



Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/22/19 08:57 PM.

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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7639187 10/22/19 09:00 PM
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Just called the game warden in one of the counties I hunt. He said shoot it, tag it as a spike/unbranched and shoot another 13” or greater if the opportunity comes.


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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7639193 10/22/19 09:12 PM
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IMHO, the oversight in the wording used on the harvest record could be corrected if it read as follows...

"Check this box above, in addition to the "buck"box, if the buck has two branched antlers and a 13 inch or greater inside antler spread, and was harvested in one of the antler restriction counties."


Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/22/19 09:21 PM.

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Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Pootie] #7639223 10/22/19 09:35 PM
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Rustler is right on this, and you guys should read what he is posting more carefully. The game warden is not reading the law correctly.
Here is the language for my county. "The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater."
Y'all are getting really confused between limits and definitions. Rustler has already told you this! Yes, you can take a spike. That is in the definitions. But as far as LIMITS, you can only take one deer with a spread 13 inches or greater. PERIOD. So if your spike has a spread of 13 inches or greater, it is still a deer with a spread of 13 inches or greater and you only get that one.

Re: Which tag to use? [Re: Lalo] #7639230 10/22/19 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Lalo
Rustler is right on this, and you guys should read what he is posting more carefully. The game warden is not reading the law correctly.
Here is the language for my county. "The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater."
Y'all are getting really confused between limits and definitions. Rustler has already told you this! Yes, you can take a spike. That is in the definitions. But as far as LIMITS, you can only take one deer with a spread 13 inches or greater. PERIOD. So if your spike has a spread of 13 inches or greater, it is still a deer with a spread of 13 inches or greater and you only get that one.

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Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted by Lalo
Rustler is right on this, and you guys should read what he is posting more carefully. The game warden is not reading the law correctly.
Here is the language for my county. "The bag limit in this county is two legal bucks, but only ONE may have an inside spread of 13 inches or greater."
Y'all are getting really confused between limits and definitions. Rustler has already told you this! Yes, you can take a spike. That is in the definitions. But as far as LIMITS, you can only take one deer with a spread 13 inches or greater. PERIOD. So if your spike has a spread of 13 inches or greater, it is still a deer with a spread of 13 inches or greater and you only get that one.

x2


I’m not listening to what Rustler has to say because it ain’t right. The harvest log doesn’t make the rules for County.

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