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Question for the outfitters? #7633618 10/16/19 12:02 AM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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We are a fairly new ranch.
I had a group of veterans come out over the weekend and I told them to stay in the blinds even after they shoot a pig and contact me so I can let the others now and I'll be coming down in the ranch truck. pigs have been coming in religiously at dusk for the past 6 months. I look out back and they are walking around from blind to blind( I could see them under the full moon) and then the guy tells me he put hog feramones out around the feeders. Another guy was talking really loudly and pissing around the blinds, then another couple of veterans were chain smoking in the blind so bad that on Sunday afternoon when I went to go pull cards and dump out more feed I got within 20ft of the blind and started coughing. The only person that got a pig was one of the vets sons that had never hunted before. I know this sounds like a b*"$*"ing session. My question is what do y'all do about that? Is it just apart if it I didn't want to confront them and tell them they did something wrong and offend them. Them being vets and all. How do y'all handle that do y'all tell them there are fines for dumping out scents or something? I haven't had near the traffic of pigs as I had prior to them showing up.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633653 10/16/19 12:46 AM
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BOBO the Clown Offline
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Welcome to guiding, it’s their hunt, If they complain then offer your observations


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7633661 10/16/19 12:53 AM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Welcome to guiding, it’s their hunt, If they complain then offer your observations

That's kind of what I figured. The biggest thing for me was them getting out of the blinds and walking around. I told them 4 times and the last time I told them I said I can't stress this enough and y'all being new at hunting may not realize how many people get shot by walking around. It happens every year at different places. I think I'm just going to have to be stricter on that policy and tell them if they get out of the blinds before I pull up in the truck then they get the boot. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just want them leaving with the same amount of holes they showed up with.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633691 10/16/19 01:18 AM
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BOBO the Clown Offline
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Originally Posted by krazy kris
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Welcome to guiding, it’s their hunt, If they complain then offer your observations

That's kind of what I figured. The biggest thing for me was them getting out of the blinds and walking around. I told them 4 times and the last time I told them I said I can't stress this enough and y'all being new at hunting may not realize how many people get shot by walking around. It happens every year at different places. I think I'm just going to have to be stricter on that policy and tell them if they get out of the blinds before I pull up in the truck then they get the boot. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just want them leaving with the same amount of holes they showed up with.



Then you are going to half to sit with them. Same reason very few outfitters offer cull doe hunts. They know they will have to baby sit 70% of their hunts, at that point is it really worth it.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7633694 10/16/19 01:27 AM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by krazy kris
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Welcome to guiding, it’s their hunt, If they complain then offer your observations

That's kind of what I figured. The biggest thing for me was them getting out of the blinds and walking around. I told them 4 times and the last time I told them I said I can't stress this enough and y'all being new at hunting may not realize how many people get shot by walking around. It happens every year at different places. I think I'm just going to have to be stricter on that policy and tell them if they get out of the blinds before I pull up in the truck then they get the boot. I'm not trying to be a jerk I just want them leaving with the same amount of holes they showed up with.



Then you are going to half to sit with them. Same reason very few outfitters offer cull doe hunts. They know they will have to baby sit 70% of their hunts, at that point is it really worth it.

I can't really sit in multiple stands at once.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633788 10/16/19 04:38 AM
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oldrancher Online Content
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A good written contract that they sign is a start. Verbally go over the rule before the hunt begins. If they violate the rules of the contract, they are out. You are dealing with the general public. Jerks are jerks. Veterans or not. At times, you will have to be a bigger jerk. Don't worry about offending anyone. It's your land and you are providing them with an experience but the experience is under your rules. Don't follow the rules, you are gone. Sometimes early. At times you will have to be a bigger jerk because of their behavior. Sometimes it's unpleasant but you have to stand your ground. You don't want them back anyway so no loss. Each group of jerks you encounter will add to the rules of the contract. Babysitting adults shouldn't be necessary but it is.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633790 10/16/19 04:42 AM
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Lock them in the stands. Or wrap a chain around it & put on a combo lock.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: oldrancher] #7633820 10/16/19 11:16 AM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by oldrancher
A good written contract that they sign is a start. Verbally go over the rule before the hunt begins. If they violate the rules of the contract, they are out. You are dealing with the general public. Jerks are jerks. Veterans or not. At times, you will have to be a bigger jerk. Don't worry about offending anyone. It's your land and you are providing them with an experience but the experience is under your rules. Don't follow the rules, you are gone. Sometimes early. At times you will have to be a bigger jerk because of their behavior. Sometimes it's unpleasant but you have to stand your ground. You don't want them back anyway so no loss. Each group of jerks you encounter will add to the rules of the contract. Babysitting adults shouldn't be necessary but it is.


We have a lengthy liability waiver that has that stated in it and us being a newer ranch we didn't want to already be getting a bad reputation.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: maximus_flavius] #7633821 10/16/19 11:17 AM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Lock them in the stands. Or wrap a chain around it & put on a combo lock.


Lmao! There's an idea!

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633848 10/16/19 11:49 AM
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don k Offline
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I don't take groups. The more people at one time the more problems.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633852 10/16/19 11:52 AM
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procraft05 Online Content
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I’m not an outfitter but we do own our own business so maybe this will relate...

Some of the jobs we used to do we no longer do

Why???

Because it’s not worth the bs for so little money.

I’d try and tell you to make the money worth your time and level of bs you’re going to put up with


Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7633904 10/16/19 01:01 PM
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personally, I would clearly state do not get out of the stand until I come to get your OR you will be removed from the property immediately, period, no excuses.


"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."

~PMK~
Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7634004 10/16/19 02:30 PM
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This won't be the last thing to catch you off guard. you can't expect these people to treat you or your place like you would treat them.

Not sure what my favorite story is here -

The guy whose camo boots matched his camo pants, matched his camo shirt, matched his camo belt, matched his camo hat, matched his camo jacket and matched his camo back pack who came with a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation 300 Win Mag, topped with a Swarvoski scope and with 10X Swarvoski binos - all purchased after the hunt was booked. Couldn't get him to take a 200 yard clear shot from a clean rest at a super buck who later was taken scored a lil' over 160. He wasn't sure how much the bullet would drop. Didn't seem to believe me. Asked him to shoot a doe within 75 yards and he ended up shooting the yearling that was with her.

A bow hunter wanting to make sure I showered the night before with a $14 bar of special soap only to have him take a dump when walking into his set up.

Large caliber gun firing off in blind and through the roof. My ears still ring.

Getting shot at by two FFL guys who got caught up dispatching a Javelina. I know what a 44 magnum and 223 sounds like as it passes you. Not a favorite memory.

Hunters leaving the ranch and heading to "somewhat" of an entertainment venue across the border and then getting back just prior to going out the next morning.

The two Italians from NYC in the trash business with bullet hole and knife wound scars who brought fully automatic weapons, cursed like sailors and were not in any way associated with La Cosa Nostra.

The good thing is you will get very good at tracking wounded animals.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7634007 10/16/19 02:31 PM
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oldrancher Online Content
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Don't worry about your reputation. Good hunters will be follow up customers and spread the word of their success with other good hunters. Jerks will spread the word you are not one to put up with their kiind and there will be less of their kind you have to deal with.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: Hudbone] #7634028 10/16/19 02:44 PM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
This won't be the last thing to catch you off guard. you can't expect these people to treat you or your place like you would treat them.

Not sure what my favorite story is here -

The guy whose camo boots matched his camo pants, matched his camo shirt, matched his camo belt, matched his camo hat, matched his camo jacket and matched his camo back pack who came with a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation 300 Win Mag, topped with a Swarvoski scope and with 10X Swarvoski binos - all purchased after the hunt was booked. Couldn't get him to take a 200 yard clear shot from a clean rest at a super buck who later was taken scored a lil' over 160. He wasn't sure how much the bullet would drop. Didn't seem to believe me. Asked him to shoot a doe within 75 yards and he ended up shooting the yearling that was with her.

A bow hunter wanting to make sure I showered the night before with a $14 bar of special soap only to have him take a dump when walking into his set up.

Large caliber gun firing off in blind and through the roof. My ears still ring.

Getting shot at by two FFL guys who got caught up dispatching a Javelina. I know what a 44 magnum and 223 sounds like as it passes you. Not a favorite memory.

Hunters leaving the ranch and heading to "somewhat" of an entertainment venue across the border and then getting back just prior to going out the next morning.

The two Italians from NYC in the trash business with bullet hole and knife wound scars who brought fully automatic weapons, cursed like sailors and were not in any way associated with La Cosa Nostra.

The good thing is you will get very good at tracking wounded animals.


Wow! Sounds like some crazy stories! Oh I've already had my share of tracking jobs from the big experienced guys that won't listen and just start tracking immediately to the guys that shoot and don't even bother to look for the critters unless it falls down in front of them

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7634191 10/16/19 04:48 PM
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This may not be the best place for this story but it does contain some of the issues that you face when you allow "others" to hunt on your property. My friend and I purchase a small ranch some 10 years ago after dealing with the issues of leasing for many years. It has worked out great for us and decided that we wanted to make a couple of hunts available for disabled vets. We thought it was the thing to do for some individuals who would appreciate the opportunity. Unknowing to us there are several organizations that have been formed to take advantage of the surge in popularity of the disabled vets. Some of the organizations are loosely formed and solicit all kinds of benefits and freebies for the so-called vets and probably themselves. I say this because the individuals that came to hunt with us had minimum disabilities. After questioning them, they told us that anyone who had any disability, no matter how small could join the organization they were in. So this hunt started out on a bad note anyway because we had anticipated that we would be helping a physically handicapped vet that would not normally have a chance to get out into the outdoors and go hunting.
When our hunters arrived they both drove up in brand new customized trucks that would probably cost in excess of 70K with everything that had been done on them. Neither one of them showed any disability what so ever. They both had brought enough equipment to fight a lengthy battle and thought they had to take everything with them to go on the hunt. They both carried 2 guns and a pistol along with several knives and every know accessory that Cabela's had to offer. It became comical watching them gather all of this "stuff" up for the hunt and pack it back up after the hunt. The first evening when were leaving the blind, I had told my hunter that it was time to go and almost 20 minutes after I was out of the blind he finally had his stuff packed up and was ready to go.
Their entire conversation while they we at our ranch was focused on three things. Their military duty, how they were double dipping the system by now working for the government as a civilian drawing a big salary and how many free hunts they were going on this year. As you can imaging this did not sit well with us at all as they could very well afford to pay for a hunt and let someone who wasn't as fortunate go on the donated hunt.
The hunt we had offered was a doe or cull buck along with a pig. One of the hunters shot a doe 5 times before he killed it. They both ended up killing a deer and a pig each and then had the nerve to ask if they could kill more animals.
We housed and feed them for two days and the entire time they we at our place they never offered to help or clean up.
As you might expect these guys easily made our decision if we were going to offer any additional hunts in the future. Its a shame that some individuals can mess up things for everyone but we will not be taking that chance again on offering additional hunts. We do support the vets and especially the disabled vets as I am one myself. It is just sad that some will take advantage of the situation and not think of the ones that something like this could really help.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: numbersguy] #7634344 10/16/19 06:54 PM
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krazy kris Offline OP
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Originally Posted by numbersguy
This may not be the best place for this story but it does contain some of the issues that you face when you allow "others" to hunt on your property. My friend and I purchase a small ranch some 10 years ago after dealing with the issues of leasing for many years. It has worked out great for us and decided that we wanted to make a couple of hunts available for disabled vets. We thought it was the thing to do for some individuals who would appreciate the opportunity. Unknowing to us there are several organizations that have been formed to take advantage of the surge in popularity of the disabled vets. Some of the organizations are loosely formed and solicit all kinds of benefits and freebies for the so-called vets and probably themselves. I say this because the individuals that came to hunt with us had minimum disabilities. After questioning them, they told us that anyone who had any disability, no matter how small could join the organization they were in. So this hunt started out on a bad note anyway because we had anticipated that we would be helping a physically handicapped vet that would not normally have a chance to get out into the outdoors and go hunting.
When our hunters arrived they both drove up in brand new customized trucks that would probably cost in excess of 70K with everything that had been done on them. Neither one of them showed any disability what so ever. They both had brought enough equipment to fight a lengthy battle and thought they had to take everything with them to go on the hunt. They both carried 2 guns and a pistol along with several knives and every know accessory that Cabela's had to offer. It became comical watching them gather all of this "stuff" up for the hunt and pack it back up after the hunt. The first evening when were leaving the blind, I had told my hunter that it was time to go and almost 20 minutes after I was out of the blind he finally had his stuff packed up and was ready to go.
Their entire conversation while they we at our ranch was focused on three things. Their military duty, how they were double dipping the system by now working for the government as a civilian drawing a big salary and how many free hunts they were going on this year. As you can imaging this did not sit well with us at all as they could very well afford to pay for a hunt and let someone who wasn't as fortunate go on the donated hunt.
The hunt we had offered was a doe or cull buck along with a pig. One of the hunters shot a doe 5 times before he killed it. They both ended up killing a deer and a pig each and then had the nerve to ask if they could kill more animals.
We housed and feed them for two days and the entire time they we at our place they never offered to help or clean up.
As you might expect these guys easily made our decision if we were going to offer any additional hunts in the future. Its a shame that some individuals can mess up things for everyone but we will not be taking that chance again on offering additional hunts. We do support the vets and especially the disabled vets as I am one myself. It is just sad that some will take advantage of the situation and not think of the ones that something like this could really help.

Thats a dang shame! My wife just found a bunch of their beer bottles they left out in the field while she was picking pecans and she isn't as nice as I am lol.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7634353 10/16/19 07:07 PM
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Texas buckeye Offline
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eek2

These stories are embarrassing and as a veteran, I feel really saddened people would do this. It isn't an issue of "they didn't know" as any veteran has been in camp before and knows to leave the place better than they found it. Sad deal. Sorry for you all's trouble. Makes me think maybe these guys weren't really vets and just stealing valor from actual vets.

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: numbersguy] #7634362 10/16/19 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by numbersguy
This may not be the best place for this story but it does contain some of the issues that you face when you allow "others" to hunt on your property. My friend and I purchase a small ranch some 10 years ago after dealing with the issues of leasing for many years. It has worked out great for us and decided that we wanted to make a couple of hunts available for disabled vets. We thought it was the thing to do for some individuals who would appreciate the opportunity. Unknowing to us there are several organizations that have been formed to take advantage of the surge in popularity of the disabled vets. Some of the organizations are loosely formed and solicit all kinds of benefits and freebies for the so-called vets and probably themselves. I say this because the individuals that came to hunt with us had minimum disabilities. After questioning them, they told us that anyone who had any disability, no matter how small could join the organization they were in. So this hunt started out on a bad note anyway because we had anticipated that we would be helping a physically handicapped vet that would not normally have a chance to get out into the outdoors and go hunting.
When our hunters arrived they both drove up in brand new customized trucks that would probably cost in excess of 70K with everything that had been done on them. Neither one of them showed any disability what so ever. They both had brought enough equipment to fight a lengthy battle and thought they had to take everything with them to go on the hunt. They both carried 2 guns and a pistol along with several knives and every know accessory that Cabela's had to offer. It became comical watching them gather all of this "stuff" up for the hunt and pack it back up after the hunt. The first evening when were leaving the blind, I had told my hunter that it was time to go and almost 20 minutes after I was out of the blind he finally had his stuff packed up and was ready to go.
Their entire conversation while they we at our ranch was focused on three things. Their military duty, how they were double dipping the system by now working for the government as a civilian drawing a big salary and how many free hunts they were going on this year. As you can imaging this did not sit well with us at all as they could very well afford to pay for a hunt and let someone who wasn't as fortunate go on the donated hunt.
The hunt we had offered was a doe or cull buck along with a pig. One of the hunters shot a doe 5 times before he killed it. They both ended up killing a deer and a pig each and then had the nerve to ask if they could kill more animals.
We housed and feed them for two days and the entire time they we at our place they never offered to help or clean up.
As you might expect these guys easily made our decision if we were going to offer any additional hunts in the future. Its a shame that some individuals can mess up things for everyone but we will not be taking that chance again on offering additional hunts. We do support the vets and especially the disabled vets as I am one myself. It is just sad that some will take advantage of the situation and not think of the ones that something like this could really help.



Man this kind of thing really irritates me. I spent a little over 25 years on active duty and made 9 combat deployments to the Middle East with the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command. By the time it was all said and done I had been shot once and wounded with shrapenel once. I ended up with a 50% disability rating. I have never once put in for a so called "free veteran's hunt" because I figure since I can still walk and hike there are other vets in wheelchairs with missing limbs that should get them. But then that is me and not the clowns noted above.


Retired Navy Chief
NJROTC Instructor for Tascosa High School
Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7634364 10/16/19 07:18 PM
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That's a darn shame. But Vets, Teachers, First responders, General public are 97% great and 3% scum. Sorry that you got some of the 3%.
But thank you for your kindness in the first place.


Ski cabin rental in Pagosa Springs.
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Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: Mr. T.] #7634792 10/17/19 02:41 AM
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freerange Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
That's a darn shame. But Vets, Teachers, First responders, General public are 97% great and 3% scum. Sorry that you got some of the 3%.
But thank you for your kindness in the first place.

All of what Mr T said.


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: Hudbone] #7635065 10/17/19 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
This won't be the last thing to catch you off guard. you can't expect these people to treat you or your place like you would treat them.

Not sure what my favorite story is here -

The guy whose camo boots matched his camo pants, matched his camo shirt, matched his camo belt, matched his camo hat, matched his camo jacket and matched his camo back pack who came with a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation 300 Win Mag, topped with a Swarvoski scope and with 10X Swarvoski binos - all purchased after the hunt was booked. Couldn't get him to take a 200 yard clear shot from a clean rest at a super buck who later was taken scored a lil' over 160. He wasn't sure how much the bullet would drop. Didn't seem to believe me. Asked him to shoot a doe within 75 yards and he ended up shooting the yearling that was with her.

A bow hunter wanting to make sure I showered the night before with a $14 bar of special soap only to have him take a dump when walking into his set up.

Large caliber gun firing off in blind and through the roof. My ears still ring.

Getting shot at by two FFL guys who got caught up dispatching a Javelina. I know what a 44 magnum and 223 sounds like as it passes you. Not a favorite memory.

Hunters leaving the ranch and heading to "somewhat" of an entertainment venue across the border and then getting back just prior to going out the next morning.

The two Italians from NYC in the trash business with bullet hole and knife wound scars who brought fully automatic weapons, cursed like sailors and were not in any way associated with La Cosa Nostra.

The good thing is you will get very good at tracking wounded animals.


LOL!!!!!!!!!

Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7636870 10/19/19 11:57 PM
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Welcome to outfitting. The fact that these guys are vets is just a coincidence. You’ll find bad hunters from all walks of life. After 20 years I got plenty of stories. I deal with it in two ways. The hunting contract spells out the basic rules. And I carefully cover what’s expected on our part and there part prior to the hunt. Hunters that break the rules don’t get invited back. Eventually you build up a clientele of repeat hunters that follow the rules and have success.


To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Question for the outfitters? [Re: krazy kris] #7638348 10/21/19 09:37 PM
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I am not an outfitter but I have been running businesses for 20 years.

All successful business is based on reputation and customer service provided to good customers. Successful businesses do not accept or keep bad customers, because bad customers create bad reputation and cost money. This is especially true with safety!!!

Decide what service you want to offer and how it will be handled. Be polite and firm up front, and enforce penalties for non-compliance. BUT, you have to clearly spell everything out in black and white (and signed) before the group even gets finished checking in.

If it were me, I would kick the group out as soon as they break the safety rules, for whatever reason. One bad accident and it could ruin you reputationally and perhaps financially.

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