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Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) #7627821 10/09/19 02:22 AM
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According to a report sent to TPWD Hunter Education instructors, there was a sharp increase in shooting-related accidents during the initial weeks of dove season.

Hopefully it will not be a trend that continues into deer season where bullets are far less forgiving.

"A wave of dove hunting incidents hit in early September, much higher than normal. Prevention of such accidents in basic hunter education courses continues to be a top learning objective! And, this is on the heels of TPWD releasing a new video on this very subject! SAFE ZONES OF FIRE

A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."

TPWD Hunter Education Instructor Bulletin

[Linked Image]



Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/09/19 02:51 AM.

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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7627903 10/09/19 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
According to a report sent to TPWD Hunter Education instructors, there was a sharp increase in shooting-related accidents during the initial weeks of dove season.

[Linked Image]


^^^^^^

Yep, been there myself. 17 pellets in my side and hip.

Circa 1970....my Older Brother and I (both teens at the time) were dove hunting on my Grandparents property just outside the city limits of Austin. It had been dry weather and one of the only nearby water sources was an old Caliche Pit that would hold rain water for months at a time. We started out shooting passing birds on the one side of the pit, but were missing out on birds that were flying on the other side....as they were simply out of range.

So...our brilliant teenage minds came up with a solution: We would split up and cover both sides of the water source. It was agreed upon that any birds that might fly between us (we were directly across the pit from one another) could be shot but not at an angle of less than 45 degrees. This way we wouldn't be shooting at each other but also not have to pass up any shot opportunities.

This was working pretty well until I went to retrieve a bird I had shot. It had fallen about 25 yds. to my right (directly alongside the pit walls). I looked to see that my brother was facing away....waiting for any birds to fly by and off I went to get my bird. Just as I got to the bird I heard him shoot and I turned to see a dove falling from the sky and him tracking a second bird. He was so intent on making a 'double' and so focused on the bird that he didn't see I had moved from my position and I had failed to verbally notify him.

Even with these mistakes...it would not have resulted in my being shot EXCEPT the damn dove he was tracking did one of those evasive maneuvers where they suddenly do a zig-zagging DIVE.

I could see his shotgun swinging my way...tracking the bird. I just had time to turn away when I heard the blast and felt the stinging/burning sensation. At the doctors office I had 17 pellets removed and had many more 'whelps' that hurt just about as much. Thankfully, we were about 40 yards apart and I had a game vest on and blue jeans which helped to slow the pellets. But they still penetrated all the way under the skin to the muscle.

7-1/2 shot from a full choked 30" barrel is still moving along pretty good at 40 yds. I learned. Of course...my Brother felt terrible about it, but he did at least manage to hit that second bird (along with me) so I guess technically he got a triple. Glad I was able to see it 'coming' and was able to turn away...or I might possibly been blinded.

Anyway....that was 50 years ago and we've hunted countless times and hours together since then without incident. But I can tell you....its no fun getting shot, even at a distance.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7627958 10/09/19 11:17 AM
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Quote
A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."


Interesting. TPWD has been promoting for years how hunters ed has produced a significant reduction in these accidents and now a lot happen. What changed?

When an anomaly happens in higher numbers, maybe it isn't an anomaly.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7627995 10/09/19 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."


Interesting. TPWD has been promoting for years how hunters ed has produced a significant reduction in these accidents and now a lot happen. What changed?

When an anomaly happens in higher numbers, maybe it isn't an anomaly.


A lot more hunters taking the online course rather than spending time in a classroom. It's much easier just to hit the next button without paying attention.


Dan,

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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628022 10/09/19 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."


Interesting. TPWD has been promoting for years how hunters ed has produced a significant reduction in these accidents and now a lot happen. What changed?

When an anomaly happens in higher numbers, maybe it isn't an anomaly.


A lot more hunters taking the online course rather than spending time in a classroom. It's much easier just to hit the next button without paying attention.


How old do you have to be to take the online.....

Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7628063 10/09/19 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."


Interesting. TPWD has been promoting for years how hunters ed has produced a significant reduction in these accidents and now a lot happen. What changed?

When an anomaly happens in higher numbers, maybe it isn't an anomaly.


A lot more hunters taking the online course rather than spending time in a classroom. It's much easier just to hit the next button without paying attention.


How old do you have to be to take the online.....


Kids as young as the minimum age where certification is required can now take the online course and an abbreviated, half-day field course. When the online course was first offered several years ago, only those 17 and older could earn certification by taking it. All kids 16 and under were required to take classroom training.

It's been two years since I've offered the classroom course because the demand is no longer there. Sure, you can still find a few places offering the classroom course but not near as many as in years past.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/09/19 01:24 PM.

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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628115 10/09/19 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
A total of 12 nonfatal incidents occurred the first three weeks of September, nine of which were hunters shooting on game outside of a safe zone of fire. Three incidents involved faulty equipment or obstructions in barrel, an anomaly since these are rare mishaps."


Interesting. TPWD has been promoting for years how hunters ed has produced a significant reduction in these accidents and now a lot happen. What changed?

When an anomaly happens in higher numbers, maybe it isn't an anomaly.


A lot more hunters taking the online course rather than spending time in a classroom. It's much easier just to hit the next button without paying attention.


Hate to say this but the online course is a joke compared to the classroom. I did the classroom and even after hunting for 20 years learned a few things. I watched my wife do the online and you don't get near the education from it. Not saying the online one is a complete waste but the classroom portion was way better.

Last edited by krmitchell; 10/09/19 02:13 PM.
Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628134 10/09/19 02:28 PM
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If I had to guess, I would say it's partly due to the quality of hunters entering the sport (and I don't mean that in an insulting way). Bare with me as I explain.

Texas has the 2nd largest positive net migration among US citizens in the U.S. (FL holds the top spot) with a whopping 250k added each year (also note worthy that only TX and FL have a positive net migration of US citizens over 100k and that TX's net migration is higher than the entire west coast COMBINED). Most of the migration at issue is from areas like NY, CA, etc... places where the vast majority of the people don't grow up with parents who hunt and don't grow up learning about gun safety and hunting (honestly, it's getting pretty rare even in TX). In any case, they move to TX and suddenly there are more opportunities to hunt and kids particularly - kids who didn't grow up with parents who hunted and didn't grow up learning gun safety - decide to participate. In many cases, this ends up being their first exposure to gun safety and hunting - and while a course is great, what you learn in a course over a relatively short period of time just isn't anywhere close to a sufficient way to convey the necessary knowledge in a way that sticks completely. It's certainly not equivalent to what a kid gets growing up in a household learning about gun safety and learning to hunt from family who does it.

This is also why the increases in these issues will be seen heavily in entry level hunting sports (bird hunters - dove, duck, etc.). And I don't mean that in a "bird hunting is easy and for pansies" kind of way - I mean that in more of a "people getting into hunting generally start with prey like birds, rather than jump to big game like deer" kind of way. I'm basing my opinion on the matter from what I see personally in my own area. I live in a nice new suburb in Tomball, TX.... I would guess that 90% of my neighbors do not hunt and did not grow up hunting - very few are actually from Texas (a lot from the east or west coast and a lot of foreigners actually). Most of them have no desire to hunt and don't even own a firearm. Their children on the other hand are interested - there's a whole new fascination with guns and hunting among the younger generations. And I think as this younger generation of kids gets into the sport (which is great), we will probably need to adapt how we teach them the necessary skills of gun safety and hunting to account for their complete lack of exposure from their family.

Of course, I'm not saying this is the cause of all new gun accidents - but I think it's a contributing factor.

Last edited by Binary; 10/09/19 02:34 PM.
Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628143 10/09/19 02:39 PM
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to many hunters on one plot


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Binary] #7628183 10/09/19 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Binary
If I had to guess, I would say it's partly due to the quality of hunters entering the sport (and I don't mean that in an insulting way). Bare with me as I explain.

Texas has the 2nd largest positive net migration among US citizens in the U.S. (FL holds the top spot) with a whopping 250k added each year (also note worthy that only TX and FL have a positive net migration of US citizens over 100k and that TX's net migration is higher than the entire west coast COMBINED). Most of the migration at issue is from areas like NY, CA, etc... places where the vast majority of the people don't grow up with parents who hunt and don't grow up learning about gun safety and hunting (honestly, it's getting pretty rare even in TX). In any case, they move to TX and suddenly there are more opportunities to hunt and kids particularly - kids who didn't grow up with parents who hunted and didn't grow up learning gun safety - decide to participate. In many cases, this ends up being their first exposure to gun safety and hunting - and while a course is great, what you learn in a course over a relatively short period of time just isn't anywhere close to a sufficient way to convey the necessary knowledge in a way that sticks completely. It's certainly not equivalent to what a kid gets growing up in a household learning about gun safety and learning to hunt from family who does it.

This is also why the increases in these issues will be seen heavily in entry level hunting sports (bird hunters - dove, duck, etc.). And I don't mean that in a "bird hunting is easy and for pansies" kind of way - I mean that in more of a "people getting into hunting generally start with prey like birds, rather than jump to big game like deer" kind of way. I'm basing my opinion on the matter from what I see personally in my own area. I live in a nice new suburb in Tomball, TX.... I would guess that 90% of my neighbors do not hunt and did not grow up hunting - very few are actually from Texas (a lot from the east or west coast and a lot of foreigners actually). Most of them have no desire to hunt and don't even own a firearm. Their children on the other hand are interested - there's a whole new fascination with guns and hunting among the younger generations. And I think as this younger generation of kids gets into the sport (which is great), we will probably need to adapt how we teach them the necessary skills of gun safety and hunting to account for their complete lack of exposure from their family.

Of course, I'm not saying this is the cause of all new gun accidents - but I think it's a contributing factor.


I very honest and fair assessment, in addition to one where I agree 100%.

When I offered the classroom course, I would always spend a few minutes once people returned from breaks to review some of the incidents that can be found in the annual TPWD Hunting Accident Reports. IMHO, nothing works better at getting everyone, which includes the more experienced hunters, focused on actual events where someone was injured or killed as a result of a hunting-related accident. I've also suggested here that lease presidents should print and pass out copies of last year's report to every member before the season starts so they can read what will never happen to them because they never make a mistake.

From last year's report, both listed as fatal accidents...

"Three hunters returned to their truck and as the 7-year old son was attempting to unload his .22 caliber rifle near the driver’s side of the pick-up, he carelessly discharged it towards his father who was standing behind the tailgate. Victim was air lifted to a local hospital after hunting group called 911."

"Victim exited an elevated ladder stand in front of shooter who passed down his loaded modern sporting rifle to the victim. Victim set the loaded rifle against a chair at the bottom of the stand. As shooter exited the stand, he slipped and fell onto the rifle which discharged. Bullet struck the victim in the back of the head."

Both of these fatal accidents could have been avoided had the hunters followed the simple rule of unloading their firearms BEFORE getting out of their stands. So what if you see something on your way back to your vehicle. You or someone else will live to hunt it another day.

Texas Hunting Accident Reports

Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/09/19 03:26 PM.

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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628198 10/09/19 03:21 PM
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I've been peppered hunting places that allowed day hunting. Not fun!
Nice pattern though!

I was trusted and turned loose into the woods with a .22 at a young age, and before that with a BB gun.
It's just a little scary to think there are kids and adults that never had that advantage and then take a short two day at the most course, and are now toting guns.

Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628211 10/09/19 03:32 PM
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I think it has a lot more to do with how kids are raised. Now many kids are raised more without guns. As a kid I as well as many on here etc. were running around at very young ages with a bb gun and a 22 etc. The safety learned there from where you can shoot, where to point a gun etc. carries over.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Binary] #7628217 10/09/19 03:37 PM
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Interesting migration assessment. The only way the migration theory would hold up is if the increase in hunting accidents can be tied to those migrants. On top of that, it would not explain the particular increase for this year.

As for the online classes being a joke, the only way we would know if that has come into play is by knowing whether the parties involved took the online classes or not. Even so, how would that account for the particular increase for this year?


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: redchevy] #7628218 10/09/19 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
I think it has a lot more to do with how kids are raised. Now many kids are raised more without guns. As a kid I as well as many on here etc. were running around at very young ages with a bb gun and a 22 etc. The safety learned there from where you can shoot, where to point a gun etc. carries over.



One of the reasons I thank my parents for turning me loose in the woods rather than keeping me in the city to run with the crowd and get into mischief.
People these days don't have that advantage, and if a parent let their child do what I did roaming the woods with a rifle they would call that child abuse, or neglect.

Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628244 10/09/19 03:59 PM
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IMO it really comes down to fatherless homes.........many new hunters are totally on their own. We see them show up here more frequently now.......guys who want to get started and don't have a clue........


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Double Naught Spy] #7628252 10/09/19 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy


As for the online classes being a joke, the only way we would know if that has come into play is by knowing whether the parties involved took the online classes or not. Even so, how would that account for the particular increase for this year?


I took the class in person as young as I was able to get credit. To a person who was taught good safety and gun handling at home even as a child the in person class was a joke. The online version, which I completed with my wife was even more so.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628378 10/09/19 05:36 PM
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When I was in high School I saw a dad shoot his son from about 25-30 yards. Right in the thigh. We were on private property and they were just across the fence.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628738 10/10/19 12:29 AM
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In addition of the migration to TX from non-gun friendly lands, its possible that more minor incidents are being reported.

There was a time when picking out few pellets and giving a tetanus shot on the first weekend of dove season wouldn't generate a "Gunshot Report" in a lot of places.

With today's over-sensitivity, I'm betting reporting compliance is 100%


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628771 10/10/19 12:58 AM
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Well, there’s only 12 of them. Perhaps instead of all this speculation the incidents can be studied to see if there are commonalities. I imagine that will happen.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7628806 10/10/19 01:24 AM
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I took the class a few years ago with my grandson and the 2 of us did benefit from the class. I have been around guns and hunting all my life but sometimes perhaps it is the instructor conducts the class. In the class my grandson probably ask more questions than anyone there even though he was one of the youngest. That surprised me but I think he was learning about a subject he was interested in.

Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7629376 10/10/19 07:38 PM
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I will say with great certainty that the number of actual incidents is greater than the 12 that were reported.

Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Texas Dan] #7629411 10/10/19 08:10 PM
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Yeah, if it's non-life threatening, I'd wager that most people wouldn't report it. I say that for two reasons:

1) I find that people today are generally very dishonest - maybe my view is skewed because I'm an attorney and I tend to get to see the worst in people, but in my experience, no one is trustworthy and I don't trust most people further than I can throw them and that's not very far ;P Whether for personal gain or to avoid consequences, I find that most people are liars; and

2) the criminal justice system has gotten completely out of control when it comes to the severity of consequences - bigger fines, longer sentences, more severe sentences, a larger number of penalties ... overall, the penalties generally do not fit the the action/crime these days. In many ways, I understand when people don't report incidents that may have severe negative consequences for them.

Last edited by Binary; 10/10/19 08:11 PM.
Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: Binary] #7629573 10/10/19 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Binary
Yeah, if it's non-life threatening, I'd wager that most people wouldn't report it. I say that for two reasons:

1) I find that people today are generally very dishonest - maybe my view is skewed because I'm an attorney and I tend to get to see the worst in people, but in my experience, no one is trustworthy and I don't trust most people further than I can throw them and that's not very far ;P Whether for personal gain or to avoid consequences, I find that most people are liars; and

2) the criminal justice system has gotten completely out of control when it comes to the severity of consequences - bigger fines, longer sentences, more severe sentences, a larger number of penalties ... overall, the penalties generally do not fit the the action/crime these days. In many ways, I understand when people don't report incidents that may have severe negative consequences for them.


A citizen is not required to report a non-intentional, non-life threatening shooting incident. It really wouldn't have much if anything to do with being honest.


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: flintknapper] #7629596 10/10/19 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by Binary
Yeah, if it's non-life threatening, I'd wager that most people wouldn't report it. I say that for two reasons:

1) I find that people today are generally very dishonest - maybe my view is skewed because I'm an attorney and I tend to get to see the worst in people, but in my experience, no one is trustworthy and I don't trust most people further than I can throw them and that's not very far ;P Whether for personal gain or to avoid consequences, I find that most people are liars; and

2) the criminal justice system has gotten completely out of control when it comes to the severity of consequences - bigger fines, longer sentences, more severe sentences, a larger number of penalties ... overall, the penalties generally do not fit the the action/crime these days. In many ways, I understand when people don't report incidents that may have severe negative consequences for them.


A citizen is not required to report a non-intentional, non-life threatening shooting incident. It really wouldn't have much if anything to do with being honest.


Correct! This isn't an honesty issue. However, if a citizen ends up at a medical facility with a GSW, even non-life threatening, it is required to be reported.

With that said, if a person gets medical treatment for a GSW, life threatening or not, it will be reported by the medical folks and they are required to do so by law.

See...Texas Health and Safety Code § 161.041. Mandatory Reporting of Gunshot Wounds


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Re: Shooting-related accidents increase sharply during dove season (photo) [Re: flintknapper] #7629604 10/11/19 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper


A citizen is not required to report a non-intentional, non-life threatening shooting incident. It really wouldn't have much if anything to do with being honest.


Actually, that's not entirely true. A number of factors have to be considered in determining whether there is a reporting requirement for hunting injuries. Some of the big factors are:

(1) The state where the incident occurred;

(2) Whether it occurred on private or public land;
(a) if public, whether it was state or federally owned;
(b) if private, whether you are contractually bound to report it by the owner of the private property (I've never drafted a lease agreement for someone that didn't include mandatory reporting of hunting injuries); and

(3) Whether a firearm is involved in the incident (Not all hunting incidents are firearm related).

Some states require that all firearm related incidents be reported (hunting or not) - private or public land.

Additionally, I stated if it was "non-life threatening" and did not limit my statement to "non-intentional" (you added that limitation) - and I'm certain that some of them are intentional. We have all hunted with that one guy who needed a bird shot in his [censored] ROFL

I rate your statement as partially accurate smile As such, I stand by my statement on honesty (which obviously, only comes into play if there is a requirement for the specific incident).


Last edited by Binary; 10/11/19 12:57 AM.
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