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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: J.G.]
#7621441
10/02/19 02:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,483
Guy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 35,483 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7621451
10/02/19 02:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344 |
If it was her actual apartment, I have no problem with what was done. But it wasn’t. What if 100% in her mind and in her heart she believed it was her apartment...oh wait...never mind. In the opinion of a lot of people, myself included, it doesn’t matter what she 100% believed in her head and heart. You shouldn’t be able to escape consequences because you believed with conviction something that you should’ve known to be untrue and then kill an innocent, unarmed person, police or not. It’s just unacceptable, no matter how sad or tragic it is for the shooter.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Guy]
#7621453
10/02/19 02:29 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: J.G.]
#7621467
10/02/19 02:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that. There was no actual reason. It was only in her head. Because her head was up her (or her married boyfriend’s) a**. And an innocent man is dead because of it.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: J.G.]
#7621471
10/02/19 03:10 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that. She had a reason. Doesn’t mean it was a good one.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#7621472
10/02/19 03:12 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,122
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,122 |
If it was her actual apartment, I have no problem with what was done. But it wasn’t. What if 100% in her mind and in her heart she believed it was her apartment...oh wait...never mind. In the opinion of a lot of people, myself included, it doesn’t matter what she 100% believed in her head and heart. You shouldn’t be able to escape consequences because you believed with conviction something that you should’ve known to be untrue and then kill an innocent, unarmed person, police or not. It’s just unacceptable, no matter how sad or tragic it is for the shooter. Hopefully you and your family don't ever have the burden of you being sent to prison for making a mistake.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621475
10/02/19 03:15 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603
Sneaky
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603 |
Hopefully, nobody enters my home and kills me, since it’s okay as long as it’s a mistake.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621498
10/02/19 04:15 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,988
Texas buckeye
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,988 |
Regarding her not rendering aid...I have to agree this weighs heavily on my heart. I am Medically trained and have been through a lot so I know my skill set is different from the normal person’s but first aid is first aid and rendering first aid is pretty easy as long as you don’t freak out. she did freak out She wasn’t thinking straight at all, likely from shock and adrenaline, and distraction. The fact she was texting her BF was telling to me she wasn’t completely out of her mind, and that is something the jury reasoned as well.
A gunshot wound to the chest should first be assessed for bleeding, stop the bleeding. Pressure, she had quickclot or an equivalent which she didn’t use (because it didn’t occur to her to use it, her words) and that can stop bleeding if applied. Then assess breathing, heart rate, and go from there. This should have been going on while she was on with 911, but she was texting instead.
Now, as fireman said, this wound was not going to be survivable. She didn’t know that. A fireman/met crew wouldn’t know that, and if the patient had vitals by the time they got there they would have continued working until he bled out internally or externally. But she didn’t know that. Her thoughts were not on the patient, they were on herself. That tells a lot. It was the reason for the whole debacle to begin with. Had she been paying attention her whole ride home instead of focusing on getting laid, this would not have happened at all, most likely. Sad deal all the way around.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Sneaky]
#7621501
10/02/19 04:29 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,344 |
If it was her actual apartment, I have no problem with what was done. But it wasn’t. What if 100% in her mind and in her heart she believed it was her apartment...oh wait...never mind. In the opinion of a lot of people, myself included, it doesn’t matter what she 100% believed in her head and heart. You shouldn’t be able to escape consequences because you believed with conviction something that you should’ve known to be untrue and then kill an innocent, unarmed person, police or not. It’s just unacceptable, no matter how sad or tragic it is for the shooter. Hopefully you and your family don't ever have the burden of you being sent to prison for making a mistake. Hopefully I never kill someone because of a mistake. If I do, I expect to be sent to prison, because that’s the way the world works. Everyone makes mistakes, and I learned that you can be held accountable for mistakes. I know you know people are sent to prison everyday for mistakes.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: J.G.]
#7621507
10/02/19 04:58 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that. What are you gonna do if there are 3 or 4 armed guys in there?
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#7621508
10/02/19 05:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841 |
Lots of well trained police folks in here with all the answers. It's like they were there in the room, knew everything. Be nice to be a freegin know it all. That’s the thing - we know quite a bit, and you would too, if you’d read the testimony or had watched the trial on TV. -her training told her to not enter the apartment, find cover, and wait for backup. She testified she didn’t remember that from the de-escalation training she took in April. She shot him in September. Maybe her lawyers just decided to not object and her training didn’t say that. Maybe she was just a bad witness. But that came out in court. -She was distracted by her police partner/boyfriend, who was married, and texted him during the 911 call saying she effed up and needed help. She said she tried chest compressions with one hand while she was on the phone with 911 but she had no blood on her and none of her rubber gloves from her duty belt were used or bloody. We have an EMs here who says it wouldn’t have mattered (and I trust and believe him) but I think her not attempting any aid went a long way to not have much sympathy because she texted her partner, who she was having an affair with, while speaking with 911. -when questioning the ME about the angle of the bullet wound, the defense attorney suggested that he was standing up from his couch when he was shot. She says she gave commands and he was approaching her and feared for her life. She claims he was coming towards her and it is more likely that he was shocked someone came in and stood up and she shot him. -she testified that he intentionally pulled the trigger to kill him because she feared for her life and thought he was an intruder. I feel bad for her, I really do, but I feel worse for him. If you’re pissed people have made up their minds, fine, but the evidence is out there. I've always heard that you NEVER want to say your intent was to kill, which is exactly what she said. She should/could have said her intent was to neutralize the threat. Probably wouldn't have mattered in her verdict, but would have sounded a whole lot better to the jury. The angle of the bullet entry wound is very intriguing as well. Did he duck down after the first shot? Was he sitting? Did he kneel down and put up his hands and say don't shoot? Unfortunately we will never know. Also, she couldn't have been rendering aid effectively, or at all, if she didn't even have blood on her hands. At the least she could have grabbed a towel, shirt, or anything and tried to stop the bleeding. It doesn't require any training at all to know how to do that.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: DocHorton]
#7621514
10/02/19 08:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,997
fadetoblack64
giddyup
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giddyup
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,997 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that. What are you gonna do if there are 3 or 4 armed guys in there? I have a 5 shot 357 revolver..........I should be good.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: DocHorton]
#7621520
10/02/19 10:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,160 |
Bet you were just as pissed at the Parkland Deputy that failed to enter and return fire, but did call his boss. There was reason for him to go in, to save lives. There was no reason for her to go in, other than to be a hero, she was trained not to go in, in that situation. Then to go in any way and shoot a guy eating bowl of ice cream, she shot him before he could even stand up. She thought it was her house. Of course there is a reason. I pity the fool that is in my house when I get home. I will not call for backup first, aint nobody got time for that. What are you gonna do if there are 3 or 4 armed guys in there? Tell the medical examiner to bring more than one van when the shooting is over.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7621524
10/02/19 10:14 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,319
bigbob_ftw
Big Sprocket Bob
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Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,319 |
Regarding her not rendering aid...I have to agree this weighs heavily on my heart. I am Medically trained and have been through a lot so I know my skill set is different from the normal person’s but first aid is first aid and rendering first aid is pretty easy as long as you don’t freak out. she did freak out She wasn’t thinking straight at all, likely from shock and adrenaline, and distraction. The fact she was texting her BF was telling to me she wasn’t completely out of her mind, and that is something the jury reasoned as well.
A gunshot wound to the chest should first be assessed for bleeding, stop the bleeding. Pressure, she had quickclot or an equivalent which she didn’t use (because it didn’t occur to her to use it, her words) and that can stop bleeding if applied. Then assess breathing, heart rate, and go from there. This should have been going on while she was on with 911, but she was texting instead.
Now, as fireman said, this wound was not going to be survivable. She didn’t know that. A fireman/met crew wouldn’t know that, and if the patient had vitals by the time they got there they would have continued working until he bled out internally or externally. But she didn’t know that. Her thoughts were not on the patient, they were on herself. That tells a lot. It was the reason for the whole debacle to begin with. Had she been paying attention her whole ride home instead of focusing on getting laid, this would not have happened at all, most likely. Sad deal all the way around. Well said.
Ultra MAGA '24.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: DocHorton]
#7621585
10/02/19 12:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404
Choctaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404 |
Lots of well trained police folks in here with all the answers. It's like they were there in the room, knew everything. Be nice to be a freegin know it all. That’s the thing - we know quite a bit, and you would too, if you’d read the testimony or had watched the trial on TV. -her training told her to not enter the apartment, find cover, and wait for backup. She testified she didn’t remember that from the de-escalation training she took in April. She shot him in September. Maybe her lawyers just decided to not object and her training didn’t say that. Maybe she was just a bad witness. But that came out in court. -She was distracted by her police partner/boyfriend, who was married, and texted him during the 911 call saying she effed up and needed help. She said she tried chest compressions with one hand while she was on the phone with 911 but she had no blood on her and none of her rubber gloves from her duty belt were used or bloody. We have an EMs here who says it wouldn’t have mattered (and I trust and believe him) but I think her not attempting any aid went a long way to not have much sympathy because she texted her partner, who she was having an affair with, while speaking with 911. -when questioning the ME about the angle of the bullet wound, the defense attorney suggested that he was standing up from his couch when he was shot. She says she gave commands and he was approaching her and feared for her life. She claims he was coming towards her and it is more likely that he was shocked someone came in and stood up and she shot him. -she testified that he intentionally pulled the trigger to kill him because she feared for her life and thought he was an intruder. I feel bad for her, I really do, but I feel worse for him. If you’re pissed people have made up their minds, fine, but the evidence is out there. I've always heard that you NEVER want to say your intent was to kill, which is exactly what she said. She should/could have said her intent was to neutralize the threat. Probably wouldn't have mattered in her verdict, but would have sounded a whole lot better to the jury. This is correct. We are trained to terminate the threat. Termination doesn't mean taking someone's life, it simply means to stop the aggression towards you or another.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621647
10/02/19 02:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768
killemall
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,768 |
I gotta say I'm ok with the outcome, manslaughter would have been fine too. When you run into someone else's apartment and shoot them while they are eating ice cream on their own couch you pretty much get what you get. I'll quote the most used quote in the history of the forum regarding police shooting people, play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621653
10/02/19 02:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,391
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,391 |
She will become just another rug muncher in prisoner.............
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Choctaw]
#7621655
10/02/19 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617 |
Lots of well trained police folks in here with all the answers. It's like they were there in the room, knew everything. Be nice to be a freegin know it all. That’s the thing - we know quite a bit, and you would too, if you’d read the testimony or had watched the trial on TV. -her training told her to not enter the apartment, find cover, and wait for backup. She testified she didn’t remember that from the de-escalation training she took in April. She shot him in September. Maybe her lawyers just decided to not object and her training didn’t say that. Maybe she was just a bad witness. But that came out in court. -She was distracted by her police partner/boyfriend, who was married, and texted him during the 911 call saying she effed up and needed help. She said she tried chest compressions with one hand while she was on the phone with 911 but she had no blood on her and none of her rubber gloves from her duty belt were used or bloody. We have an EMs here who says it wouldn’t have mattered (and I trust and believe him) but I think her not attempting any aid went a long way to not have much sympathy because she texted her partner, who she was having an affair with, while speaking with 911. -when questioning the ME about the angle of the bullet wound, the defense attorney suggested that he was standing up from his couch when he was shot. She says she gave commands and he was approaching her and feared for her life. She claims he was coming towards her and it is more likely that he was shocked someone came in and stood up and she shot him. -she testified that he intentionally pulled the trigger to kill him because she feared for her life and thought he was an intruder. I feel bad for her, I really do, but I feel worse for him. If you’re pissed people have made up their minds, fine, but the evidence is out there. I've always heard that you NEVER want to say your intent was to kill, which is exactly what she said. She should/could have said her intent was to neutralize the threat. Probably wouldn't have mattered in her verdict, but would have sounded a whole lot better to the jury. This is correct. We are trained to terminate the threat. Termination doesn't mean taking someone's life, it simply means to stop the aggression towards you or another. I believe that is exactly where she screwed up in her testimony. I understand what she meant but the law is clear on murder and she blatantly said she intended to kill him. That really didn’t give the jury much options for manslaughter. She should have never taken the stand.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621658
10/02/19 02:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404
Choctaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404 |
Yep, it usually isn't a good thing when the defendant takes the stand. Sometimes it works out but not very often.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Choctaw]
#7621662
10/02/19 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,319
bigbob_ftw
Big Sprocket Bob
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Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,319 |
Yep, it usually isn't a good thing when the defendant takes the stand. Sometimes it works out but not very often. clearly this was the defining moment of the trial.
Ultra MAGA '24.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: bigbob_ftw]
#7621668
10/02/19 02:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,404
Bass&More
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,404 |
Yep, it usually isn't a good thing when the defendant takes the stand. Sometimes it works out but not very often. clearly this was the defining moment of the trial. ^^^^^this
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Bass&More]
#7621695
10/02/19 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,997
fadetoblack64
giddyup
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giddyup
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 22,997 |
Yep, it usually isn't a good thing when the defendant takes the stand. Sometimes it works out but not very often. clearly this was the defining moment of the trial. ^^^^^this
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Choctaw]
#7621701
10/02/19 03:11 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,358
bronco71
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,358 |
Yep, it usually isn't a good thing when the defendant takes the stand. Sometimes it works out but not very often. True, getting her to say she intended to kill was not good although pretty much the only answer. Didn't help either when she said she deserved whatever was coming and she was a piece of carp, kinda told the jury not to feel bad whatever they decided. Although her breaking down in tears when starting to recreate going into the apartment seemed genuine, after hearing about her sexting 2 days after the shooting seeming not very remorseful makes me think her breakdown on stand was more about herself than the victim and his family. I have to disagree with prosecution saying he was shot getting up from the couch because the laptop, ice cream and remotes on the ottoman directly in front of the couch were not disturbed and there was no blood on the couch or between the couch and halfway across the room toward the doorway where he fell. I see no way he made it that far with his artery severed without disturbing anything or bleeding on anything. I believe that he ducked with one shot going over him and the one one that hit him while he was approaching her. But he was not in the wrong, she was....
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Stub]
#7621718
10/02/19 03:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Nogalus Prairie
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091 |
There are several on here that should never take the stand either.
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.
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Re: Amber Guyger Trial Starts Today..
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#7621768
10/02/19 03:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952 |
There are several on here that should never take the stand either. None of us ever should. 10% chance it goes right, 90% chance it goes wrong. Keep your mouth shut is the name of the game.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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