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Annealing?
#7616586
09/26/19 02:23 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,536
redchevy
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Has anyone tried annealing brass using a candle? I read a little about it, watched a YouTube video on it. I have some federal 243 cases I have had quite a bit of trouble with split necks in the past. I annealed them this way and so far so good.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7616590
09/26/19 02:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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ckat
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That is John Barsness' preferred method. I don't use a candle, but a butane torch in the same basic manner. Much better brass life since making a habit of it...
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7616688
09/26/19 04:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
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Gringocazador
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I've bought a couple of really hard batches of brass a time or two. Annealled a few times.
I just stand them up in a pan of water about 1/2 full. Heat with a torch and tip them over in the pan of water when they get hot. Seems simple to me.
Thanks, Billy
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7616732
09/26/19 11:12 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
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dee
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If it's the candle method I'm thinking of most will say it's not getting the brass hot enough.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: dee]
#7616768
09/26/19 12:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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If it's the candle method I'm thinking of most will say it's not getting the brass hot enough. This^^ Not enough heat. The poboy method people talk about here, is a socket appropriate size to the brass diameter, in a drill, and a propane torch. Anneal in the dark, almost make it glow orange, ALMOST. Focus the heat on the case mouth and shoulder area.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7616780
09/26/19 12:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,536
redchevy
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Im not sure. I held the case by the head and rotated in the top of the flame till it was uncomfortable to hold the case then dropped in some water. They did sizzle when they hit the water. The video I watched(I have not verified) said that a candle flame burned at about 1100 degrees, which would be hot enough from what research I have done.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7616797
09/26/19 01:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,486
kmon11
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Over the years I have used
Standing in water like described above, The first Speer reloading manual I got in the early 80s described that method in detail with pictures.
For straight walled cases I have used the Candle method. Lerned that from a cousin that taught me how to reload.
These days I use the drill, socket and propane torch,
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617487
09/27/19 02:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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Im not sure. I held the case by the head and rotated in the top of the flame till it was uncomfortable to hold the case then dropped in some water. They did sizzle when they hit the water. The video I watched(I have not verified) said that a candle flame burned at about 1100 degrees, which would be hot enough from what research I have done. The flame is that hot but does all that heat transfer to the brass (I know you don't want 1100° brass) in the short time you're holding it? My money is on a resounding negative if you're holding them with your bare hands and even with gloves when the proper heat is achieved its extremely warm on the case head end.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: dee]
#7617502
09/27/19 03:19 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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Im not sure. I held the case by the head and rotated in the top of the flame till it was uncomfortable to hold the case then dropped in some water. They did sizzle when they hit the water. The video I watched(I have not verified) said that a candle flame burned at about 1100 degrees, which would be hot enough from what research I have done. The flame is that hot but does all that heat transfer to the brass (I know you don't want 1100° brass) in the short time you're holding it? My money is on a resounding negative if you're holding them with your bare hands and even with gloves when the proper heat is achieved its extremely warm on the case head end. Look at brass that has in fact been annealed at the factory. Lapua is a good example. The discoloration is quite obvious. I doubt a candle will creat such discoloration. And no, you won't be able to hold brass that has been hot enough to be annealed.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617622
09/27/19 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,195
Korean Redneck
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There apparently is a paste or paint-type product that melts off once a certain temperture is reached. It might be worth getting regardless of the heat source. When I looked into for a bit, I liked the suggestion of using this thermal paint and timing it.
As for the candle, i would imagine the biggest issue will be that you can get certain, very small localized spots to a high enough temp (possibly). Then that would suggest u run a high risk of having quite of bit a variations in max temp reach across the surface. I totally agree with others, the propane torch seems to be a much better option.
I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: Korean Redneck]
#7617663
09/27/19 01:37 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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There apparently is a paste or paint-type product that melts off once a certain temperture is reached. It might be worth getting regardless of the heat source. When I looked into for a bit, I liked the suggestion of using this thermal paint and timing it.
As for the candle, i would imagine the biggest issue will be that you can get certain, very small localized spots to a high enough temp (possibly). Then that would suggest u run a high risk of having quite of bit a variations in max temp reach across the surface. I totally agree with others, the propane torch seems to be a much better option. Tempilaq is the paint you're referring to and it comes in many various factors.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617678
09/27/19 01:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,633
DStroud
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I have a friend that has a Benchsource annealer that recently got an AMP ... pretty sure he would sell located near Cresson. Not as cheap as a candle though but works way more better.
"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617699
09/27/19 02:05 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 451
cullbuck
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I have quite a bit of brass (fired 3x) resized and ready to load and notice neck tension differences when seating bullets in this brass. Will annealing this already resized brass help with this issue?
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: cullbuck]
#7617702
09/27/19 02:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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I have quite a bit of brass (fired 3x) resized and ready to load and notice neck tension differences when seating bullets in this brass. Will annealing this already resized brass help with this issue? Yes but it will require you to resize again after.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: DStroud]
#7617714
09/27/19 02:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,163
J.G.
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I have a friend that has a Benchsource annealer that recently got an AMP ... pretty sure he would sell located near Cresson. Not as cheap as a candle though but works way more better. Benchsource is a good option. I have a Giraud. It is quick, but I would rather it had two flames 180° from each other. I believe Benchsource does. You just have to stay with it, and keep feeding brass. DStroud, all due respect, but it is pronounced and written "Mo Betta".
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617720
09/27/19 02:26 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,536
redchevy
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Ive got one of the mini propane torches somewhere in the shop, ill have to dig it up. I enjoyed the simplicity of the candle, but appears the common thought is it may not be functional/as functional. I have two boxes of 20 of this brass. Last box I fired and sized about 1/2 of them split and I just tossed them. This time 2 out of 20 split very minorly. Im not convinced it has no effect but I will probably consider other methods.
For my use and quantity spending money on an commercial annealed is not feasible at all.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617738
09/27/19 02:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,907
unclebubba
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While we are on the topic... I recently started annealing brass using the propane torch method. I just held the case and rotated it in my hand until the mouth got to "almost orange". After two casings, I put on a heavy pair of leather gloves. Gonna have to try the socket method next time.
Can you Over-anneal? I annealed some .357 mag., and a bunch of the cases bulged when I seated the bullet. Like the brass was too soft.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617740
09/27/19 02:37 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,536
redchevy
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Yes you can and I agree, the case budging is probably a good indicator.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: unclebubba]
#7617741
09/27/19 02:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,942
ChadTRG42
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Can you Over-anneal? I annealed some .357 mag., and a bunch of the cases bulged when I seated the bullet. Like the brass was too soft. Yes, you certainly can over anneal. I've never heard of annealing pistol cases.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7617767
09/27/19 03:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,907
unclebubba
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Can you Over-anneal? I annealed some .357 mag., and a bunch of the cases bulged when I seated the bullet. Like the brass was too soft. Yes, you certainly can over anneal. I've never heard of annealing pistol cases. I have a ruger 77/357 rifle. When I first started reloading for this rifle, I would get cloverleaf groups at 100 yards, but lately, I have been getting poor groups. I figure case mouth tension might be at least one of the culprits.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617844
09/27/19 04:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,536
redchevy
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Do you crimp your 357 loads?
Never loaded for a 357 so I don't know, but would assume it is like a 45 colt/44 mag and is loaded with a roll crimp which would probably negate most/any tension. I would think the biggest reason to anneal pistol cartridges is to prevent splitting/cracking from belling case mouths and then roll crimping, lots of movement/work on the case mouth.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7617857
09/27/19 04:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,907
unclebubba
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Do you crimp your 357 loads?
Never loaded for a 357 so I don't know, but would assume it is like a 45 colt/44 mag and is loaded with a roll crimp which would probably negate most/any tension. I would think the biggest reason to anneal pistol cartridges is to prevent splitting/cracking from belling case mouths and then roll crimping, lots of movement/work on the case mouth. I do crimp. I had not thought of that. Good. Because annealing those little bastages is a Pain in my @$$. Maybe I'll just throw all my brass out and start over with all new brass.
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Re: Annealing?
[Re: redchevy]
#7639521
10/23/19 02:26 AM
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machinist
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If you want to try Temp-Stiks go to a welding supply store. They will have them in all sorts of temps. Just pick what you want.
some people like silver and gold I like brass and lead with a little powder in between
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