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Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: Trenton] #7611042 09/20/19 12:05 AM
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The way I understand it the TPWD system favors groups. They average the loyalty points and each member in the group gets that many entries. If one person draws out then everyone in the group draws out.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: KOhunter] #7611243 09/20/19 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KOhunter
The way I understand it the TPWD system favors groups. They average the loyalty points and each member in the group gets that many entries. If one person draws out then everyone in the group draws out.


The points are averaged, but I was told it is one entry under the party leader. Unless things have changed. Otherwise say each member of a party of four with one point each would have equal odds as a single hunter applying with 4 points. Or like me with 26 points in GDE. If I find 3 others with 25+ points to go in with to game the draw, we could have at least 100 entries combined they way you explained it. I am pretty sure it does not work that way.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7611366 09/20/19 12:36 PM
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Hmmm ...so as I understand it, if I coud find several other guys with my now + 21LP's in EXO the group would have a much mo bettah chance of getting drawn for the agreed upon destination?? Not really having any "regrets" at drawing the less "glamerous" GDE location I did with 17 LP's ...but at my age and state of grace it means that I'll never get to see any of the high profile spots except as an unarmed tourist...but then again I won't have "wasted" my LP's either waiting for drawing that Best Hunt location in a specific category
Couple of "Something's" to think about...Need to start checking out the Best Cash Payout lotteries from this point on though and plan on a Pay To Play hunting strategy from here on out.
Ron


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Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: Sniper John] #7611897 09/20/19 09:59 PM
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The way you explained it, it would discourage groups. Everyone in the group pays three bucks for the entry so it doesn't make any sense to give them worse odds.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: KOhunter] #7611948 09/20/19 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by KOhunter
The way you explained it, it would discourage groups. Everyone in the group pays three bucks for the entry so it doesn't make any sense to give them worse odds.


I sent TPWD the question through the website and requested an email reply. I will post the reply. I actually hope your right. It should not be too hard for me to find 3 other members on the forum with loyalty points in the mid 20s to team up for the Powderhorn or Chap next season.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7612283 09/21/19 03:33 PM
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I started the conversation asking about the House Schedules around Christmas, and informing her about my drawing a Hunt the week before the Holiday. Tried to explain the TPW Lottery System as it is now in place to my BH of almost 51 years....since I haven't drawn a Permit in GDE in the last 17 years..she thought you could only get Doe Permits in the Lottery since I've never drawn anything else since the '80's despite entering all the usual Gun categories with more than a single location App, and her eyes glazed over after the 1st 30 seconds.

She got the idea of the various Categories & remembered that I had drawn a GDA Permit at Inks Lake umm 5-6 years ago that I had to bail on 'cause I had a bigtime bad case of the flu or walking pneumonia that had not yet been confirmed by the Lab reports, called and alerted the location manager of my No Show so he could plan for a Stand By, but did not get a Permit Refund or my even LP's restored like I did last year when TPW's 'puter puked up a GIGO and "over allocated Permits" in my GDA Ft Boggy selection of who knows how many Over Selection Permits.... and even got the concept of LP's but asked why Texas does not follow a Weighted Draw like some other states where guys we know hunt regularly and finally understood WHY those guys do what they do.

She even got the concept of the Pending Second Draw, but had a major eye roll at allowing Non Resident App's to compete for ANY of the Lotteries, much less the Pending 2nd Drawing section she thought ought to be restricted to only Resident App's. Her biggest Eye Roll of all though was when I said I'm gonna win a Cash Lottery and buy my own place to hunt on and patted me on the head as she started to walk away, like you would a small child who tells his mommy I'm going to the Moon someday as she walked into the next room trying not to laugh out loud but could not contain her chuckling. It'll be 51 years in December the week before my GDE Hunt and still together ....somehow. Never a dull moment in this house.
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: Sniper John] #7614075 09/23/19 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Sniper John
Originally Posted by KOhunter
The way you explained it, it would discourage groups. Everyone in the group pays three bucks for the entry so it doesn't make any sense to give them worse odds.


I sent TPWD the question through the website and requested an email reply. I will post the reply. I actually hope your right. It should not be too hard for me to find 3 other members on the forum with loyalty points in the mid 20s to team up for the Powderhorn or Chap next season.



Reply from TPWD. So the way I read the reply, yes it greatly increases your odds to do a party application. Thank you KOhunter for bringing this to our attention.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Each person on the application will get entries equal to the average number of points for the group.

Thank you,
Wildlife Information

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7615609 09/25/19 05:19 AM
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Okay, it's the 25th now.... permit purchasing deadline.... who is ready to see if they score an elusive 2nd draw win.

Anyone know if that actually happens today or if they wait until tomorrow?

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7615611 09/25/19 05:25 AM
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I am currently sitting at:

Number of Draw Entries: 44
Won: 2 (Both @ Trinity River NWR)
Not Selected: 10
Pending 2nd Draw: 23
Draws Not Done Yet: 9

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: DeleteThisAccount] #7615795 09/25/19 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Binary
Okay, it's the 25th now.... permit purchasing deadline.... who is ready to see if they score an elusive 2nd draw win.

Anyone know if that actually happens today or if they wait until tomorrow?


I got opening weekend of Archery at Laguna Atascosa from the 2nd draw.... so I am afraid I have used all my luck

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7615878 09/25/19 03:23 PM
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Today is the deadline. So you can still pay today. Draw should be held tomorrow. I just checked I won Aransas NWR rifle hunt, but have to pass due to other obligations. It is still available for me to buy the permit.

Last edited by Thisisbeer; 09/25/19 03:25 PM.
Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7616072 09/25/19 06:13 PM
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hit Palo Duro Canyon EXO with 3 points......in Jan 5-7

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7616804 09/26/19 01:13 PM
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Well, I missed all the 2nd draws it looks like.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7616816 09/26/19 01:31 PM
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Woot! I scored a 2nd draw - Balcones Canyonlands NWR

My new tally is:

Number of Draw Entries: 44
Won: 3
Not Selected: 32
Pending 2nd Draw: 0
Draws Not Done Yet: 9

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7616867 09/26/19 02:46 PM
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Balcones should be a cool one. Congrats.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7617053 09/26/19 06:31 PM
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Sent you a PM, Binary.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: slick trick 2] #7617513 09/27/19 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by KOhunter
The way I understand it the TPWD system favors groups. They average the loyalty points and each member in the group gets that many entries. If one person draws out then everyone in the group draws out.

Not true at all, solo applicants have the best chance to draw.
Originally Posted by slick trick 2
hit Palo Duro Canyon EXO with 3 points......in Jan 5-7


Lucky you

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7617568 09/27/19 10:48 AM
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What makes you think solo applicants have the best chance? The info that it's easier for groups came from TPWD apparently.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7618324 09/28/19 12:27 AM
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Second draw I lucked out and got Aransas for 3rd rifle hunt. Hopefully the weather is better than last year.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: bossbowman] #7618442 09/28/19 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Legend LE-195
Originally Posted by KOhunter
The way I understand it the TPWD system favors groups. They average the loyalty points and each member in the group gets that many entries. If one person draws out then everyone in the group draws out.

Not true at all, solo applicants have the best chance to draw.


It is true. I emailed TPWD giving both scenarios of either each person getting entries equal to the average points. Or only entries under the party leader averaged for the group. The reply I received below was that each person on the application gets an equal number of entries. The way I read into that is if two persons apply together with one point each, there would be one entry under the 1st applicant that would float the 2nd applicant, and another entry under the 2nd applicant that would float the 1st applicant if drawn. If both have multiple loyalty points, the average combined would give each the averaged number of entries. Each in addition floating each other on each of those entries. If a party of four with 25 averaged points enter together it equals 100 drops in the hat. Sounds crazy, but that's the way it reads.

Reply from TPWD.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Each person on the application will get entries equal to the average number of points for the group.

Thank you,
Wildlife Information

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7618706 09/28/19 06:24 PM
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Here's another possible scenario though. If towards the end of the selection process, there are less than 4 spots left, and one person in the group of 4 gets drawn, the entire group gets dropped and another gets picked until all the spots are filled. That's the way it was explained to me a few years ago by the lady on the phone with TPWD.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: Palehorse] #7618768 09/28/19 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Palehorse
Here's another possible scenario though. If towards the end of the selection process, there are less than 4 spots left, and one person in the group of 4 gets drawn, the entire group gets dropped and another gets picked until all the spots are filled. That's the way it was explained to me a few years ago by the lady on the phone with TPWD.


I have had this explained to me both ways both when I asked Austin and by area managers on hunts. It may be something that may or may not have changed over time or change to a computer draw system. I have been told if the last card had more people than spots left, they simply added spots up to that amount. That the number was not absolute. And I have been on hunts before where there were more drawn hunters on the hunt than the number in the book for that hunt period. I admit those were a very long time ago. I have been on many drawn hunts. 18 alligator hunts at JD Murphree alone going back to the very first alligator hunts ever. It was common on some hunts for there to be only one standby, but they allowed all the standby hunters to combine into 3 or 4 person cards "because that is the way TPWD does it in the draw" they said. They did this for one standby position when I was at Caprock Canyons stating the same reason. The last standby I went on though at Gus Engeling I was told your version, so though four could apply there was only two standby positions, so the four hunters present had to split into two cards for the hat draw. The problem is the person on the phone or the person answering an email is probably just a employee with canned answers and is not forwarding the question to the person over the public hunting program. So who knows. I do agree passing over 4, 3, 2 person entries to get to a single person entry would give a greater chance of drawing if the person has few loyalty points. But a group of high point hunters compounding into 50 to 100 entries would still bring much better odds.

I would also like to know if the number of last years entries for each hunt in the book is the number of hunters regardless of loyalty points, or the combined number of entries taking loyalty points into account. The latter or actual number of drops in the hat is what they should be giving us to accurately figure the odds of drawing.

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: WileyCoyote] #7619055 09/29/19 03:13 AM
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28 years GDE and not selected again. Gene Howe WMA

Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: cos] #7621010 10/01/19 05:30 PM
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With the way the new system is set up, I would definitely find a couple other hunts that you would like to draw and apply for them as well. Now that everyone can apply for every hunt and not just 1 per category, most folks do. This year, I have been drawn for 4 hunts (so far) and a sam houston nat forest doe tag. None of them were premium hunts, but still getting to see new areas and spend time in the field with my sons.


~Dustin



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Re: 9/15 Drawings [Re: bossbowman] #7621022 10/01/19 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Legend LE-195

Not true at all, solo applicants have the best chance to draw.


Exactly the opposite.

Total number of LP are divided evenly between group members, and if one person of the group is selected, then the entire group is selected. There are some combinations of LP's among individuals in a group that could yield the same chance of being selected as if one of the individuals has applied solo, but never less of a chance. The only reason that the chances can be equal is because TPWD does not give free points by rounding up, as far as I know.


~Dustin



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