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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7599486 09/06/19 01:49 PM
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Dan Patrick on Fox News now saying he and the governor are in agreement that "stranger to stranger" gun sales must be addressed. He claims that over 90% of convicted felons who committed a gun-related crime used a gun they purchased from a stranger.

It would seem current technology would make it easy to identify if someone is a convicted felon before you sell them a firearm.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 09/06/19 01:52 PM.

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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7599585 09/06/19 03:46 PM
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Most information on convicted felons is public record. Create a database that allows joe citizen to check a person's status before selling a gun to them or buying a gun from them. Also, make that database to allow joe citizen to check a firearm serial number for stolen.

There...I just solved the problems with face to face firearm sales. Your Welcome.

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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: Texas Dan] #7599606 09/06/19 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Dan Patrick on Fox News now saying he and the governor are in agreement that "stranger to stranger" gun sales must be addressed. He claims that over 90% of convicted felons who committed a gun-related crime used a gun they purchased from a stranger.

It would seem current technology would make it easy to identify if someone is a convicted felon before you sell them a firearm.


Only if you have access to that information, which we don't unless you have a subscription to one of the open record sites. Even if you do, you don't have access to mental health records or knowledge of illegal drug abuse. Those are two other categories on the 4473. IMO, the mental health part is probably the most relevant to actual shootings, and the checks run by FFL's can't get that information either. When it comes to firearms, I'm just as concerned about a person's mental health issues or drug addiction as I am with their criminal history. I've dealt with enough meth monkeys over the years to know they're extremely unstable and unpredictable. Back when facebook still had all the gun classified groups I turned down many good offers on guns just because I checked the person's profile page and they looked sketchy as hell.


Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7599810 09/06/19 08:29 PM
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Quite a few of the mass shooters have shown some sort of mental instability, but only a few seemed to have sought professional help. Almost none have had a long term problem with the law, only a few scrapes and misdemeanors.

When these nut cases do decide to go on a killing spree, it seems that something triggered it? The last one at Odessa seemed to be triggered by the loss of his job. The El Paso shooter, his intense hatred of illegals, and how they had taken his jobs away from him.

National data base on everyone, open to any Tom Dick or Sally? Do you really want something like that? That could lead to some real abuse by people that have absolutely no need to get that type of information. Too easy now to get info on people just by using Google or Bing. Our lives are already almost an open book, but there has to be some privacy in our world.

On the non hunting and non gun forums there are discussions going on about gun control. most do not allow political discussions, but the ones that do are asking for a lot more than what most of you will be happy with.

I suggest having the county sheriffs offices handle the transfers. That might slow down the criminal element and they have access to data bases. Definitely a good place for a cash transfer for weapon, better than the Walmart parking lot.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: dogcatcher] #7600275 09/07/19 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Today, 110 people were killed in automobile accidents in the USA. Nobody is wanting to change the maximum speed limit to 45 to stop this horrible loss of life. Gun control has nothing to do with the actual loss of life. It's just politicians playing their games.


^^100% correct.

21 years in the fire service. I don't know how many dead people I have seen due to car wrecks. I lost count a long time ago.

Gun deaths, I can count on my fingers, and have some left over. And the majority of those were self inflicted. Seen the pistol to the temple a bunch, the .22lr rifle into the soft pallet, pistol in the mouth, and one was into the heart. Almost never see a murder with a firearm.

Politicians are playing on people's emotions, nothing more.


Apples and Oranges. How many of those auto accident deaths were intentional murders? Maybe 1 out of 100 or even 10 out of hundred, do not equal the 40 intentional murders committed daily in America.


It's not apples to oranges. Liberals want to ban an object, that is what I was referring to.

Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7600457 09/07/19 04:42 PM
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Does anyone have a link to the number of mass shooting that involved an individual who purchased weapons from other individuals in private sales? They keep talking about this, what they call loophole, being one of the major problems.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7600500 09/07/19 05:17 PM
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I only know of 1 in the last couple years and it was the Odessa shooter.

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: J.P. Greeson] #7600696 09/07/19 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by J.P. Greeson
Does anyone have a link to the number of mass shooting that involved an individual who purchased weapons from other individuals in private sales? They keep talking about this, what they call loophole, being one of the major problems.


I bet it is very small number.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: FiremanJG] #7601025 09/08/19 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7601033 09/08/19 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Yet... take guns out of the equation and evil people will find ways to do evil things. Box trucks and pressure cookers come to mind. Don’t take my rights away just because someone “might” do something. This isn’t minority report we can’t tell the future. However, I can tell you from history an unarmed populous doesn’t fair to well under tyranny.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: KRoyal] #7601051 09/08/19 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Yet... take guns out of the equation and evil people will find ways to do evil things. Box trucks and pressure cookers come to mind. Don’t take my rights away just because someone “might” do something. This isn’t minority report we can’t tell the future. However, I can tell you from history an unarmed populous doesn’t fair to well under tyranny.


I was simply providing context to the cars vs guns statement, where was I advocating taking a gun away from you? I have no intention of giving my own up.

I agree with you, evil people will continue to exist (and increase) and will cause us harm, which we can't predict. Shouldn't we do something to make it harder for them to arm themselves, even it creates an inconvenience for us?

IMHO, we make things worse for ourselves as gun owners, trying to convince ourselves no action can be taken as it can only lead to full confiscation, so most choose "no changes allowed". As gun owners, we are in the population minority (gun owner vs non-gun owner). The danger in doing nothing, is nothing changes and eventually, the majority will get their act together and bring about changes far greater than the steps we could be taking today.

Charlie


Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7601084 09/08/19 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by KRoyal
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Yet... take guns out of the equation and evil people will find ways to do evil things. Box trucks and pressure cookers come to mind. Don’t take my rights away just because someone “might” do something. This isn’t minority report we can’t tell the future. However, I can tell you from history an unarmed populous doesn’t fair to well under tyranny.


I was simply providing context to the cars vs guns statement, where was I advocating taking a gun away from you? I have no intention of giving my own up.

I agree with you, evil people will continue to exist (and increase) and will cause us harm, which we can't predict. Shouldn't we do something to make it harder for them to arm themselves, even it creates an inconvenience for us?

IMHO, we make things worse for ourselves as gun owners, trying to convince ourselves no action can be taken as it can only lead to full confiscation, so most choose "no changes allowed". As gun owners, we are in the population minority (gun owner vs non-gun owner). The danger in doing nothing, is nothing changes and eventually, the majority will get their act together and bring about changes far greater than the steps we could be taking today.

Charlie



Are you by chance a Texas transplant?


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7601113 09/08/19 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by KRoyal
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Yet... take guns out of the equation and evil people will find ways to do evil things. Box trucks and pressure cookers come to mind. Don’t take my rights away just because someone “might” do something. This isn’t minority report we can’t tell the future. However, I can tell you from history an unarmed populous doesn’t fair to well under tyranny.


I was simply providing context to the cars vs guns statement, where was I advocating taking a gun away from you? I have no intention of giving my own up.

I agree with you, evil people will continue to exist (and increase) and will cause us harm, which we can't predict. Shouldn't we do something to make it harder for them to arm themselves, even it creates an inconvenience for us?

IMHO, we make things worse for ourselves as gun owners, trying to convince ourselves no action can be taken as it can only lead to full confiscation, so most choose "no changes allowed". As gun owners, we are in the population minority (gun owner vs non-gun owner). The danger in doing nothing, is nothing changes and eventually, the majority will get their act together and bring about changes far greater than the steps we could be taking today.

Charlie



Doesn’t have anything to do with us gun owners. The founders were pretty clear when they wrote it. “Shall not be infringed”. Making things more inconvenient for us isn’t going to change anything for criminals. Gun laws only work if people follow them. So yes you and I would follow the new laws because we’re law abiding citizens. Criminals not so much.

This is actually a prime example of why these changes wouldn’t work or change a thing. He failed a background check and couldn’t buy it from FFL. So he went to the next avenue which was private sales. If private sales required a background check he’d have failed that one as well. Then he would have went to the black market and got the gun and we’d still be sitting here discussing it because he would have still done it.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7602295 09/09/19 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie


Hundreds of people in Europe would strongly disagree with you.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7602297 09/09/19 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by KRoyal
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie

Yet... take guns out of the equation and evil people will find ways to do evil things. Box trucks and pressure cookers come to mind. Don’t take my rights away just because someone “might” do something. This isn’t minority report we can’t tell the future. However, I can tell you from history an unarmed populous doesn’t fair to well under tyranny.


I was simply providing context to the cars vs guns statement, where was I advocating taking a gun away from you? I have no intention of giving my own up.

I agree with you, evil people will continue to exist (and increase) and will cause us harm, which we can't predict. Shouldn't we do something to make it harder for them to arm themselves, even it creates an inconvenience for us?

IMHO, we make things worse for ourselves as gun owners, trying to convince ourselves no action can be taken as it can only lead to full confiscation, so most choose "no changes allowed". As gun owners, we are in the population minority (gun owner vs non-gun owner). The danger in doing nothing, is nothing changes and eventually, the majority will get their act together and bring about changes far greater than the steps we could be taking today.

Charlie




The "do something" phrase makes me laugh every time.

The "something" is to arm good people. Thus the reason public schools have staff that is armed.

This is not difficult.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7602648 09/10/19 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie


On the contrary... People do get behind the wheel and kill something like 11K people a year and no one seems to think it is a problem.

Link from the CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html

Last edited by pegasaurus; 09/10/19 01:54 AM.
Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: pegasaurus] #7602728 09/10/19 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by pegasaurus
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie


On the contrary... People do get behind the wheel and kill something like 11K people a year and no one seems to think it is a problem.

Link from the CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html


How many of those vehicle accidents are intentional, where someone got in to their car and started driving around just to kill other people? Very few, you are not providing facts for your side of the discussion.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: FiremanJG] #7602730 09/10/19 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
The "something" is to arm good people. Thus the reason public schools have staff that is armed.

This is not difficult.


Would that be the same as the armed school Security Guard in CO that shot one of the students by mistake? Clearly that's the answer.

Charlie

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7602806 09/10/19 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
The "something" is to arm good people. Thus the reason public schools have staff that is armed.

This is not difficult.


Would that be the same as the armed school Security Guard in CO that shot one of the students by mistake? Clearly that's the answer.

Charlie



Yes, it is the same. With high standards, training and Continuing Education for all those carrying. You plucked out one incident. Do you know how many incidents happen a year where a good guy with a guy stops a bad guy? Thousands.

Does armed robbery happen more often in gun stores or convenience stores? How often do mass shootings happen at Police stations?

Once again, this is not difficult.


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Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: SnakeWrangler] #7602853 09/10/19 12:44 PM
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He needs a reminder. Make rules which take away freedom and you loose votes.

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: CharlieCTx] #7603124 09/10/19 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
The "something" is to arm good people. Thus the reason public schools have staff that is armed.

This is not difficult.


Would that be the same as the armed school Security Guard in CO that shot one of the students by mistake? Clearly that's the answer.

Charlie


If you are going to use this example then there should be no police officer allowed to have a gun either.

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: dogcatcher] #7603227 09/10/19 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Originally Posted by pegasaurus
Originally Posted by CharlieCTx
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Hammers and clubs kill more people than rifles do. But they do not care about facts. And you cannot ban hammers and clubs, it is physically impossible. Cars kill more people than rifles and pistols, intentionally ir accidentally, but liberals don't want to give up their cars either, so they don't go after them.


No one gets in their car or grabs a hammer and hurts/kills a couple dozen or more people in a single event, several times a year.

Charlie


On the contrary... People do get behind the wheel and kill something like 11K people a year and no one seems to think it is a problem.

Link from the CDC - https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafety/impaired_driving/impaired-drv_factsheet.html


How many of those vehicle accidents are intentional, where someone got in to their car and started driving around just to kill other people? Very few, you are not providing facts for your side of the discussion.


They knew what they were doing when they got into their vehicle. I am sure everyone of them may not have intentionally gotten into their car to kill people but maybe some did. That is why they are charged with homicide and not murder.
But all that is besides the point.
The point is, these people make a choice to drive drunk and nearly 11K people are killed because of it every year. Way more than are killed by these crazies than are killed by crazies with guns.
Everyone turns a blind eye to it because it is a hard problem to solve and not politically tenable to address.

I always find it amazing how quickly people will jump to defend those that choose to drink, drive and kill innocent people and sometimes wipe out entire families but condemn those that choose to kill people with a gun.

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: pegasaurus] #7603283 09/10/19 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by pegasaurus

The point is, these people make a choice to drive drunk and nearly 11K people are killed because of it every year. Way more than are killed by these crazies than are killed by crazies with guns.
Everyone turns a blind eye to it because it is a hard problem to solve and not politically tenable to address.


The annual murder rate in America exceeds 16,000 every year. The rate of murder is high and read and heard about so often that people are not shocked by a murder, it takes a mass killing to make the front page for more than a day or two.

To compare the murder rate with facts of the driving under the influence solves neither problem and really is not offering any info to help solve either of the problems. That is rationalizing, which is as useless as the udders on a bull.


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I see these signs at several schools at the football games we attend.

Re: Texas governor expresses concern about private gun sales [Re: dogcatcher] #7603349 09/10/19 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Originally Posted by pegasaurus

The point is, these people make a choice to drive drunk and nearly 11K people are killed because of it every year. Way more than are killed by these crazies than are killed by crazies with guns.
Everyone turns a blind eye to it because it is a hard problem to solve and not politically tenable to address.


The annual murder rate in America exceeds 16,000 every year. The rate of murder is high and read and heard about so often that people are not shocked by a murder, it takes a mass killing to make the front page for more than a day or two.

To compare the murder rate with facts of the driving under the influence solves neither problem and really is not offering any info to help solve either of the problems. That is rationalizing, which is as useless as the udders on a bull.


Murder rate by what means??? And thank you for you stating my point as it relates to DUI deaths.
No one cares because it is not on the tongue of a politician and mass shooters are. That does not change the fact that more people die from DUI related incidents than mass shootings. And the really important part is that it can be reduced to almost 0 by installing an interlock device in every car. But, people care more about their “personal freedoms” when it comes to drinking and driving than they do about “personal freedoms” when it comes to the constitution.

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