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Loophole
#7598655
09/05/19 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
Buzzsaw
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799 |
So, some of us post guns for sale here and on other forums. So far I've only sold guns to members with higher post counts. I guess these sales will be illegal soon,
so
in order to close this loophole, do I have to take my gun and the buyer to an FFL holder to fill out the form?
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7598680
09/05/19 02:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 448
spankyttx
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 448 |
illegal soon? this morning, news4 said it is illegal now for an individual to build an ar and sell it without a ffl, it was pertaining to the odessa shooting, now they say the shooter may have bought a built ar from an individual "which is illegal without a ffl". i did not know that
LI-SI-WI-NWI
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Re: Loophole
[Re: spankyttx]
#7598712
09/05/19 02:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617 |
illegal soon? this morning, news4 said it is illegal now for an individual to build an ar and sell it without a ffl, it was pertaining to the odessa shooting, now they say the shooter may have bought a built ar from an individual "which is illegal without a ffl". i did not know that Heard that also. It is not illegal. You are not manufacturing or modifying a firearm. News Media
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7598718
09/05/19 03:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 21,617 |
I suppose personal sales without using an FFL will be a thing of the past. Will probably also include family and gifts.
I just hope it was not someone from THF that sold the firearm. Even if it was all within the law, I expect the THF would get lots of new visitors.....
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7598733
09/05/19 03:13 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 25,138
Creekrunner
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 25,138 |
As much as I disagree and detest the uselessness of it, I don't want to break the law. I've told my son and son-in-law that they'll be getting some of mine a lot sooner than they expected.
Gonna be interesting if the deep state starts referring to records that supposedly weren't kept. I grieve for my country. It took a long time for Rome to fall, but fall it did.
...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Creekrunner]
#7598895
09/05/19 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
Buzzsaw
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
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Posts: 33,799 |
As much as I disagree and detest the uselessness of it, I don't want to break the law. I've told my son and son-in-law that they'll be getting some of mine a lot sooner than they expected.
Gonna be interesting if the deep state starts referring to records that supposedly weren't kept. I grieve for my country. It took a long time for Rome to fall, but fall it did. Amen Creek
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7598906
09/05/19 06:10 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,683
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,683 |
Biggest problem out of this is going to be nationwide registration of guns if they force private sales to go through a FFL. This law will be unenforceable without mandatory registration.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: krmitchell]
#7598981
09/05/19 07:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
THF Celebrity
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Biggest problem out of this is going to be nationwide registration of guns if they force private sales to go through a FFL. This law will be unenforceable without mandatory registration. That is the next logical step.
Funny thing about getting older: Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7598983
09/05/19 07:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,683
krmitchell
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,683 |
Biggest problem out of this is going to be nationwide registration of guns if they force private sales to go through a FFL. This law will be unenforceable without mandatory registration. That is the next logical step. Yep, but that has been the goal the entire time. The current background check system has failed more than once and a background check was actually performed.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: spankyttx]
#7598992
09/05/19 07:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835 |
illegal soon? this morning, news4 said it is illegal now for an individual to build an ar and sell it without a ffl, it was pertaining to the odessa shooting, now they say the shooter may have bought a built ar from an individual "which is illegal without a ffl". i did not know that I think the issue in this situation is that they guy was buying a bunch of parts and building ar rifles and selling them, effectively turning himself into a dealer, but without obtaining his FFL. If you build one for personal use, and then sell it, and do it again next year, probably not an issue. However, if you are doing 3 or 4 a month without obtaining an FFL, that is an issue.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: unclebubba]
#7601183
09/08/19 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,799
Buzzsaw
OP
THF Celebrity
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illegal soon? this morning, news4 said it is illegal now for an individual to build an ar and sell it without a ffl, it was pertaining to the odessa shooting, now they say the shooter may have bought a built ar from an individual "which is illegal without a ffl". i did not know that I think the issue in this situation is that they guy was buying a bunch of parts and building ar rifles and selling them, effectively turning himself into a dealer, but without obtaining his FFL. If you build one for personal use, and then sell it, and do it again next year, probably not an issue. However, if you are doing 3 or 4 a month without obtaining an FFL, that is an issue. YEP
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7601230
09/08/19 05:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
gramps
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gramps
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768 |
? Do all the AR part guns have a serial number on lower or other parts. ? Does a FFL legal assembler/seller use these number to register. ? Or does he have to put a serial # on receiver (probably from ATF)?
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7601255
09/08/19 05:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909
leswad
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909 |
If you buy a receiver, and fill out form 4473, can you sell it after you have built it out? Can it be built out as a pistol or rifle?
FJB
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7601596
09/09/19 12:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,632
Nathan at Fork
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,632 |
What am I missing? Why will private gun sales be illegal soon? Did they pass a law I missed?
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Re: Loophole
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7602303
09/09/19 07:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085 |
illegal soon? this morning, news4 said it is illegal now for an individual to build an ar and sell it without a ffl, it was pertaining to the odessa shooting, now they say the shooter may have bought a built ar from an individual "which is illegal without a ffl". i did not know that Heard that also. It is not illegal. You are not manufacturing or modifying a firearm. Not correct. I buy a stripped lower, assemble it, add an upper, technically speaking the ATF deems that manufacturing.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7602306
09/09/19 07:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085 |
? Do all the AR part guns have a serial number on lower or other parts. ? Does a FFL legal assembler/seller use these number to register. ? Or does he have to put a serial # on receiver (probably from ATF)? Lower is serialized, that is all. Serial number of lower goes on the 4473 and in the log book. 07 FFL must engrave his company name attached to the FFL onto the firearm lower. Even if it the lower was milled by a different party. So if I buy a Spikes lower, build it into a rifle, I add my company engraving to it also. Private seller does the same thing, and it is legal as long as it is low volume.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7602311
09/09/19 07:47 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,158
Scott W
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,158 |
What's the definition of "low volume?"
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Re: Loophole
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#7602325
09/09/19 08:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085 |
That, I don't know. But you can bet the ATF has a number.
If I sell more than 50 firearms a year that I "manufactured", then I've got to pay tax on every one of them. But I'm an 07 FFL. If a non-FFL was selling very often on this site, or others, I would not be surprised if the ATF contacted that person well prior to 50 firearms.
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Re: Loophole
[Re: J.G.]
#7602328
09/09/19 08:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768
jeh7mmmag
gramps
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gramps
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 14,768 |
Thanks Jason. Always wonder about serial number on parts and receiver.
�Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul.� ~ John Muir
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Re: Loophole
[Re: jeh7mmmag]
#7602382
09/09/19 08:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085 |
They have lots of rules that do not make any sense!
I know that is shocking, being that we are talking about government.
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