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A few observations from a old man #7586860 08/22/19 11:00 PM
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don k Online Content OP
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I keep hearing that WT Deer rub their velvet off. What I have seen is that the velvet dries and falls off. The rubbing and scrapping starts closer to the rut. I see Bucks with the velvet gone and there are no signs of any tree bark or anything that would suggest that the velvet was rubbed off. People complain that they see no Bucks during the Summer. Starting after the Bucks loose their antlers they find other Bucks. They become big buddies during the Summer until Sept. They all hang out together. In Sept. things change. No more buddies. They separate and find their own territories. If you have no Bucks during the Summer that doesn't mean you will have none during the season. Feeding Deer. It may be good during times there is no natural forage. The problem is that most people don't let a Deer live long enough to get to his maximum size. Coyotes. Kill everyone you see. They hurt Deer way more that you realize. In South Texas not so much because there are plenty of rats and rabbits .Anywhere above or west of Hwy 90 shoot them. Raising Exotics. You cannot do both WT and Exotics on the same place and do both of them right. Exotics and Exotics. Unless for hunting on your property pick one and concentrate on it. Leases too expensive. Those saying it have no idea the work it takes to keep acreage at a useable stage. It is a lot different that keeping just a home going. Living on pavement is a lot different than living out here trying to raise animals. Coping with the drought. Fighting coyotes and a multitude of other problems that pop up every day. See this is what happens when things go to pot and you go check snares in the afternoon and take a six pack of cheap beer along.

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7586877 08/22/19 11:14 PM
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Beer. Life's too short for cheap beer.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7586884 08/22/19 11:18 PM
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I watched this buck on Sept. 26th thrash a cedar to rub the velvet off. Could never get any pics of him work the cedar due to other deer in the way and just seeing his backend. He had backed off the cedar and was shaking his head in the first pic. This group of about 9-10 bucks came in together and left together that opening day of MLD season. The T-post in the last pic are yardage markers, they were put in before range finders were very common in the late 90's.
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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7586885 08/22/19 11:20 PM
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Velvet will fall off on its own, but they also rub it off. Sometimes they will be more into rubbing terminal branches where you won't notice rub damage.



You may not find signs of the velvet if they eat it afterwards.



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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7586891 08/22/19 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
I keep hearing that WT Deer rub their velvet off. What I have seen is that the velvet dries and falls off. The rubbing and scrapping starts closer to the rut. I see Bucks with the velvet gone and there are no signs of any tree bark or anything that would suggest that the velvet was rubbed off. People complain that they see no Bucks during the Summer. Starting after the Bucks loose their antlers they find other Bucks. They become big buddies during the Summer until Sept. They all hang out together. In Sept. things change. No more buddies. They separate and find their own territories. If you have no Bucks during the Summer that doesn't mean you will have none during the season. Feeding Deer. It may be good during times there is no natural forage. The problem is that most people don't let a Deer live long enough to get to his maximum size. Coyotes. Kill everyone you see. They hurt Deer way more that you realize. In South Texas not so much because there are plenty of rats and rabbits .Anywhere above or west of Hwy 90 shoot them. Raising Exotics. You cannot do both WT and Exotics on the same place and do both of them right. Exotics and Exotics. Unless for hunting on your property pick one and concentrate on it. Leases too expensive. Those saying it have no idea the work it takes to keep acreage at a useable stage. It is a lot different that keeping just a home going. Living on pavement is a lot different than living out here trying to raise animals. Coping with the drought. Fighting coyotes and a multitude of other problems that pop up every day. See this is what happens when things go to pot and you go check snares in the afternoon and take a six pack of cheap beer along.

cheers


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: Creekrunner] #7586892 08/22/19 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Beer. Life's too short for cheap beer.




Keystone. Keystone is the answer

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7586894 08/22/19 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
.... The problem is that most people don't let a Deer live long enough to get to his maximum size.


One of the best sayings I ever heard was, "you'll start shooting big deer when you quit shooting the little deer."

Hang in there Don. Cool weather is around the corner and fall mornings make being outside worth it. cheers

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: jeffbird] #7586902 08/22/19 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffbird
Originally Posted by don k
.... The problem is that most people don't let a Deer live long enough to get to his maximum size.


One of the best sayings I ever heard was, "you'll start shooting big deer when you quit shooting the little deer."


All too often, we start educating new hunters to shoot little deer. Dad takes little Johnny on his first hunt and dad instructs little Johnny to either shoot the first deer within range, or is coming to the end of the hunt and tells him to shoot whatever shows up. Rarely do we ever see a picture of little Johnny with a 5 year old 12 pt buck as his first kill.


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: Creekrunner] #7586906 08/22/19 11:46 PM
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Amen


"Sometimes, too much to drink is barely enough"

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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587024 08/23/19 01:32 AM
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those are awesome pictures

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587193 08/23/19 03:37 AM
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don k, you should run for Governor.


Last edited by maximus_flavius; 08/23/19 03:38 AM.
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587234 08/23/19 09:15 AM
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I agree on coyote/fawn predation. A friend in Indiana set up a cam on a coyote den. He noted over 40 fawns brought in by Mama. However, I'm not sure that Mama Nature, even being the cruel bitch that she is, isn't helping with the balance of nature. I have observed, on my place, that an extended drought is more damaging that predation. And, that same drought hits the predators just like it does the prey. The one thing that never seems affected by man or nature is coons.


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587257 08/23/19 11:25 AM
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Velvet usually dries and falls off on its own. The rubbing is done to (perceived) sharping of antlers.

Last edited by snake oil; 08/23/19 11:26 AM.
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: snake oil] #7587277 08/23/19 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by snake oil
The rubbing is done to (perceived) sharping of antlers.


Hunters make up all sorts of strange explanations. I always got a kick out of the explanation that hogs were "sharpening their teeth" just before getting ready to attack during the process of jaw popping. A variety of animals pop their jaws as a warning when agitated.

I guess folks must believe that since antlers in velvet usually look like they are blunt on the ends, but pointy after the velvet comes off that the deer sharpened the tips, but the tips simply emerge from the velvet pointy already, LOL.


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587395 08/23/19 02:13 PM
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Kill more coyotes, have more deer. But I have talked to some quail managers that say keep the coyotes because they eat many of the quail predators. They argue, keep the coyotes and kill all coons, possums, feral cats, bobcats, etc.


No matter how high a duck flies a hammer still breaks a window.
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587593 08/23/19 05:55 PM
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Data from the states of Texas and S.C. from a few years back both said that 60% of fawns born in the spring would be dead by Fall due to coyotes. I shoot em.

I don’t have any quail, and haven’t since I’ve owned the place (15 years), so there’s that.


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587611 08/23/19 06:13 PM
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I figure for a person, a healing scab is about as close as we get to knowing what antlers coming out of velvet could possibly feel like. I don't know about y'all, but my wounds can itch something fierce about the time they are all healed up.

I can only imagine 165 inches of velvety itchiness needs a good tree trunk or fence post scratchin' once in a while to knock the fuzz off.

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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7587842 08/23/19 10:45 PM
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Yup, I'm sure they itch like crazy...

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: kry226] #7588118 08/24/19 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kry226
Yup, I'm sure they itch like crazy...

I may be wrong but a dead bone should not have any feelings.

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7588162 08/24/19 01:41 PM
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Good points here. There is no substitute for age, so I encourage youth, and even myself, if I am meat hunting to shoot does and let the young bucks grow up.

Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7588172 08/24/19 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
I keep hearing that WT Deer rub their velvet off. What I have seen is that the velvet dries and falls off. The rubbing and scrapping starts closer to the rut. I see Bucks with the velvet gone and there are no signs of any tree bark or anything that would suggest that the velvet was rubbed off. People complain that they see no Bucks during the Summer. Starting after the Bucks loose their antlers they find other Bucks. They become big buddies during the Summer until Sept. They all hang out together. In Sept. things change. No more buddies. They separate and find their own territories. If you have no Bucks during the Summer that doesn't mean you will have none during the season. Feeding Deer. It may be good during times there is no natural forage. The problem is that most people don't let a Deer live long enough to get to his maximum size. Coyotes. Kill everyone you see. They hurt Deer way more that you realize. In South Texas not so much because there are plenty of rats and rabbits .Anywhere above or west of Hwy 90 shoot them. Raising Exotics. You cannot do both WT and Exotics on the same place and do both of them right. Exotics and Exotics. Unless for hunting on your property pick one and concentrate on it. Leases too expensive. Those saying it have no idea the work it takes to keep acreage at a useable stage. It is a lot different that keeping just a home going. Living on pavement is a lot different than living out here trying to raise animals. Coping with the drought. Fighting coyotes and a multitude of other problems that pop up every day. See this is what happens when things go to pot and you go check snares in the afternoon and take a six pack of cheap beer along.


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7588179 08/24/19 02:17 PM
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wth, father takes son out for first hunt, "now son don't shoot till we see a twelve pointer" that's bull chit, let the kid shoot....


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7588186 08/24/19 02:28 PM
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thank you don k


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Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: colt45] #7588191 08/24/19 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by colt45
wth, father takes son out for first hunt, "now son don't shoot till we see a twelve pointer" that's bull chit, let the kid shoot....


Yes, there are some buzzkill men who are more concerned with showing everyone with how much they know and how "management minded" they are, instead of just letting a kid have fun.

Then there's the guy that constantly harps on shooting nothing but really mature deer...until HIS family is hunting. realmad


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: A few observations from a old man [Re: don k] #7588241 08/24/19 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by kry226
Yup, I'm sure they itch like crazy...

I may be wrong but a dead bone should not have any feelings.


If there is blood, then they are still at least partially vascularized and if so, still may have some active nerve endings. Around the pedicles, this may be especially true.

Originally Posted by colt45
wth, father takes son out for first hunt, "now son don't shoot till we see a twelve pointer" that's bull chit, let the kid shoot....


It's sort of a problem, isn't it? You want to teach the kids to hunt, you want mature bucks, but then if you let the kids shoot just whatever, they don't learn big buck conservation, but if you have them wait on a big buck to teach them conservation, they may not get a chance to learn about deer hunting.

If you want to try to conserve for big bucks, but still let the kids have a lot of fun, take them hog hunting - big, small, shoot them all.


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