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draw hunt system #7581740 08/16/19 09:07 PM
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I was thinking about ways this system could be better.
1) Would be nice if all hunts where drawn on the same day. with enough time to make arrangements at work and for the hunt. Could possibly open up say June 1st and drawn August 1st.
2) First draw open to everyone, second draw higher loyalty points get preference. This would at least make a loyalty points worth something
3) Stop multiple wins in the same category in the same year


Im sure there are plenty of ideas, please list any if you have them. Just curious to see others opinions. And maybe the parks system will see this and look into changes.

Am I a bit bitter? probably so. I have invested thousands of dollars into this system over the years and never been selected. While seeing a guy get drawn for 8-10 hunts in a 2 year period. In his first 2 years of applying. Good for him but that leads me to believe the system could be tweaked a little.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581852 08/16/19 11:11 PM
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TPWD just did a survey of several applicants about the drawn hunt system and possible changes including a place for comments. It would have been too soon for this year, but I would not be surprised if there were some changes next year as a result of the survey.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581860 08/16/19 11:20 PM
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You can always email your thoughts and concerns to TPWD, they are pretty good at responding.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581873 08/16/19 11:37 PM
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The problem for guys like me and I assume you too dawson is that once we build up a lot of points we tend to not want to wage them on the easy to draw hunts and only apply for the more desirable hard to draw hunts. That puts the draw odds well against drawing anything. The guys with few to no points can put in for any and everything including several of the easy to draw hunts with nothing to lose. Odds are good for drawing many of the hunts. Some have been guaranteed to draw before with less putting in for the hunt than the number of permits. But someone with over 20 points would be foolish to throw those points away on a hunt like that.

Something I saw another state start doing with a similar draw system was allowing hunters to choose how many of their points to wage on a draw. That way they would not lose all loyalty points if they get drawn for the less desirable or easy to draw hunt.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581875 08/16/19 11:40 PM
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The guy I talked to who answere the phone at 4200 Smith School Rd did clear up why Non Res entry's are allowed to participate on the same basis as Res Entery's...when he said...TPW CANNOT set the Game Laws to exclude Non Residents and right now you can thank the Legislature for refusing to correct that situation. Well I just wrote on here what I really wanted to say...and erased it. Snail Mail still gets my point across to the Party I want to speak to whether it amounts to a hill of beans or not...and THF is not that place. So we can &^%$ 'tch all we want to but until that System is changed and TPW is put in FULL control of the Game Laws all we can do is *&^%$ about it...:and VOTE the B@^*&^%d's out of office. bang:
JMHO & YMMV
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581897 08/17/19 12:07 AM
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What's wrong with the system?

I've been pretty lucky with getting a draw and have been putting in for 10-11 years. I did burn 9 PPs on Archery Deer at RCWMA south unit this year.

I wasn't happy when it changed to online and allowed the unlimited entries.

The only thing I'd like to see is a separation of residents and non resident. I think Texans should have a leg up over people coming from out of state. We have an uphill battle when we go out of state so would kinda like to see the same.


Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7581907 08/17/19 12:25 AM
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Should be a way to fix it without excluding non residents and without calling on legistature. Last I looked non residents pay more for a hunting license than residents do so I would think it not that difficult to have non residents pay more for a draw entry than residents as well.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7582062 08/17/19 03:10 AM
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If you do the math, points really don't significantly increase your odds of getting drawn, especially in the hunts with long draw odds. One thing that could help would be squaring the points like some other states do. That would help folks who have a lot of points get drawn before they get too old to hunt.


"One cannot be a mediocre squirrel hunter, and at the same time a skillful deer hunter. The two techniques go together." Francis E. Sell
Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7582186 08/17/19 01:52 PM
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P'horse...IMO ...that's why TPW changed the name of the "point participation award inducment accrual system" from "Preference Point's" to "Loyaty Points" . There is NO Prefernce's given regardless of the age or # of Points an Applicant has in a given category. There never has been a weighted Preference System ala the Rocky Mountain States - where you can "buy" PP's and add them to your accural account without the opportunity of winning a Permit.... used in Texas TPW Lottery's of any kind have that I know in the 30+ years I've been sending TPW $'s to participate in a Lottery Drawing.

When I was talking to the guy who ans'd the phone at 4200 Smith School Rd, now some 2 weeks ago, and he said whatever it was that he repeated seveal times that it wasn't up to TPW and that the Lege was in control of the State Law that was being applied ...I told him about my experiences with the Tx Dept of Insurance Regs about how out of state non Res Insurance Agents seeking a TX Ins License, and the Rules that were applied by the guys at 333 Guadalupe St in Austin.

Since both of us were getting nowhere we both hung up amicably and frustrated at the lack of progress he was able to give me in a better solution to my quandry. Both of us seemed to agree that the solution was way above our Pay Grades without exactly saying that on tape. The guy was a nice young man, well spoken and understood completely what I was talking about and why...apparently not New News to him either LOLOL ...but No Mention of any changes being considered to change anything from the current system.
Ron


It is TIME for Term Limits, cause Politicians are like childrens diapers and for the same reasons...Robin Williams

"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: draw hunt system [Re: Sniper John] #7582456 08/17/19 10:19 PM
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Im not sure how many where polled, but I was one of them. I have been the last 2 years and have expressed changes in both. I have spoke with them on the phone and expressed changes also. looks like in need to contact my state representative.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7582457 08/17/19 10:20 PM
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Please guys express any ideas you have for changes so I can discuss them with any party I can. You never know.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7582570 08/18/19 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by dawson55
Please guys express any ideas you have for changes so I can discuss them with any party I can. You never know.


Required to have a hunting license before applying. If thats means to move the expiration date to July so be it.


Re: draw hunt system [Re: WileyCoyote] #7582574 08/18/19 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by WileyCoyote
P'horse...IMO ...that's why TPW changed the name of the "point participation award inducment accrual system" from "Preference Point's" to "Loyaty Points" . There is NO Prefernce's given regardless of the age or # of Points an Applicant has in a given category. There never has been a weighted Preference System ala the Rocky Mountain States - where you can "buy" PP's and add them to your accural account without the opportunity of winning a Permit.... used in Texas TPW Lottery's of any kind have that I know in the 30+ years I've been sending TPW $'s to participate in a Lottery Drawing.

When I was talking to the guy who ans'd the phone at 4200 Smith School Rd, now some 2 weeks ago, and he said whatever it was that he repeated seveal times that it wasn't up to TPW and that the Lege was in control of the State Law that was being applied ...I told him about my experiences with the Tx Dept of Insurance Regs about how out of state non Res Insurance Agents seeking a TX Ins License, and the Rules that were applied by the guys at 333 Guadalupe St in Austin.

Since both of us were getting nowhere we both hung up amicably and frustrated at the lack of progress he was able to give me in a better solution to my quandry. Both of us seemed to agree that the solution was way above our Pay Grades without exactly saying that on tape. The guy was a nice young man, well spoken and understood completely what I was talking about and why...apparently not New News to him either LOLOL ...but No Mention of any changes being considered to change anything from the current system.
Ron


True PP system(like CO) is a terrible idea solely due to point creep. We don’t offer enough hunts to keep it from being an exponential disaster.

Loyalty(increased number of names is n the hat) is the only way to go

A split system like AZ where there is a random and PP max tag may work, but again dont see us having enough hunts to keep pp at a sustainable level.

I thought about limiting species application choices to three, but not sure that’s the right answer but would increase lower sought after draw odds

As it stands being in the stand by list is best way to capitalize on the current system

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7582653 08/18/19 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by dawson55
Im not sure how many where polled, but I was one of them. I have been the last 2 years and have expressed changes in both. I have spoke with them on the phone and expressed changes also. looks like in need to contact my state representative.


I was sent the survey too, I think they may have sent it to those that had lots of preference points built up, it will be interesting if they make any changes, theres lots of people with 10, 20 or more points built up that aren't drawing. I agree points need to be weighted heavier whether thats a multiplier, limiting the # of hunts you can apply for in a category. Or probably the best idea only allowing you to draw one hunt per year in a category, I would like them to only allow 1 applicaton per category like the old days but that won't happen as that would hurt the cash they are bringing in with this new system, you would think with this new system being more lucrative the permit #'s for the big game categories specifically deer would increase or at least maintain but they have fewer and fewer every year.

Last edited by Legend LE-195; 08/18/19 02:32 AM.
Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7583117 08/18/19 09:23 PM
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Ive only drawn one hunt since finding out about the public hunts, but I like the system. I prefer the loyalty points vs preference.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7583158 08/18/19 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by dawson55
Please guys express any ideas you have for changes so I can discuss them with any party I can. You never know.


Required to have a hunting license before applying. If thats means to move the expiration date to July so be it.


Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7583190 08/18/19 10:44 PM
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It would be nice if you had points for each hunt and not each category. For folks like sniper John who are really racking up points would be able to pick hunts and not throw away 15-20 points on a less attractive hunt within the same category.

Giving points exponentially would help too. So year one gets one point, but year 2 gets 2 points, so you’d have 3. Again, those who’ve struck out 15-20 years would have a lot more skin on the game every year.

Maybe a point for every hunt you apply for. Maybe additional points for other parks and wildlife purchases.. season parks pass for points etc.. just spit balling


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Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7583421 08/19/19 03:42 AM
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The trick is a system that rewards entering every year without discouraging newcomers, which is obviously a balancing act. I don't suggest the perfect system is easy, but there should be a solution that is a reasonable compromise of goals.


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Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7583437 08/19/19 04:21 AM
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Give my best to the TPW guys who run this Lottery, they've finally convinced me of the future, based this last 20 years of participating every year, and the years after we moved home to Texas in '75 and was on deer leases almost every year, and my LOttery entries were more sporadic ....X's the # of Hunts I've won. FWIW I'll always send in at least 1 $3 Lottery Entery to keep my "Loyalty Points" from being deleted.

Scratch Off's odds are who knows how succesful but the proceeds could at least allow you to buy Hunts on the commercial market with a much higher % of guaranteed results...or just keep the Entry $'s and any Lottery $'s won to waste on a better grade of scotch... aim
JMHO & YMMV
Ron

Last edited by WileyCoyote; 08/19/19 04:40 AM.

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"These are the times that try men's soul's"...Thomas Paine

"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: draw hunt system [Re: WileyCoyote] #7586170 08/22/19 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by WileyCoyote
Give my best to the TPW guys who run this Lottery, they've finally convinced me of the future, based this last 20 years of participating every year, and the years after we moved home to Texas in '75 and was on deer leases almost every year, and my LOttery entries were more sporadic ....X's the # of Hunts I've won. FWIW I'll always send in at least 1 $3 Lottery Entery to keep my "Loyalty Points" from being deleted.

Scratch Off's odds are who knows how succesful but the proceeds could at least allow you to buy Hunts on the commercial market with a much higher % of guaranteed results...or just keep the Entry $'s and any Lottery $'s won to waste on a better grade of scotch... aim
JMHO & YMMV
Ron


FWIW not entering doesn't delete your points, dad hasn't entered since 2000 and all his points are still there, they never go away!

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7586416 08/22/19 02:59 PM
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There is never going to be a system that keep everyone happy. There are just too many people applying for a limited number of permits. If 1000 apply for 1 permit, 999 people won't be happy. Next year there will be 999 people with 2 points and only 1 will get drawn. That leaves 998 pizzing and moaning that the system doesn't work. The next year 997 people will have 3 points and still only 1 will be drawn. Guess what, 996 people will be sniffling and whining again because they had 3 points and didn't get picked. Eventually, a whole mess of people will have 20+ points......and not get drawn, and so on until the last person is picked after 1000 years. And even this assumes nobody new ever wants to hunt. If a new applicant has to wait 1,000 years before they get drawn, reckon there's any chance they will apply? THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT FAIR AND RANDOM FOR EVERYBODY, BOTH OLDTIMERS AS WELL AS NEWCOMERS, IS WITH THE LOYALY POINT SYSTEM. Anything that does more to encourage folks with more points, just discourages new applicants. In the example above, only 1 person will be drawn, REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF POINTS YOU HAVE. There will always be many people, with many points, that do nor get drawn.


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Re: draw hunt system [Re: Trash Fish and Cull Bucks] #7587102 08/23/19 02:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
There is never going to be a system that keep everyone happy. There are just too many people applying for a limited number of permits. If 1000 apply for 1 permit, 999 people won't be happy. Next year there will be 999 people with 2 points and only 1 will get drawn. That leaves 998 pizzing and moaning that the system doesn't work. The next year 997 people will have 3 points and still only 1 will be drawn. Guess what, 996 people will be sniffling and whining again because they had 3 points and didn't get picked. Eventually, a whole mess of people will have 20+ points......and not get drawn, and so on until the last person is picked after 1000 years. And even this assumes nobody new ever wants to hunt. If a new applicant has to wait 1,000 years before they get drawn, reckon there's any chance they will apply? THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE IT FAIR AND RANDOM FOR EVERYBODY, BOTH OLDTIMERS AS WELL AS NEWCOMERS, IS WITH THE LOYALY POINT SYSTEM. Anything that does more to encourage folks with more points, just discourages new applicants. In the example above, only 1 person will be drawn, REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF POINTS YOU HAVE. There will always be many people, with many points, that do nor get drawn.


Ever hear of point creep, its not as bad with this system as say compared to colorado but its already started to happen, the # of guys with 20 or even 30 point grows every year, they will have to do something eventually.

Last edited by Legend LE-195; 08/23/19 02:15 AM.
Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7587332 08/23/19 01:11 PM
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I'm gonna beat a tired drum again about TPW allowing/encouraging Non Residents to participate in the Hunting Lottery without any kind of penalty or restrictions, this LP system will never do anything except frustrate and continue to penalize without any tit for tat in same benefits from other states when TEXAS RESIDENT HUNTERS,WHO'S PROPERTY TAXES PAY FOR ALL OF THE STATE OF TEXAS'S EXPENDITURES. As far as I know Almost NONE of the other states pay for their state governments expenses out of Property Taxes, but from STATE INCOME TAXES. Mebbe it's time to revisit adding Income Tax's for Texas Residents so the Lege can continue to finance the Rainy Day Fund to a Billion+ $'s that is/has NEVER BEEN or Gonna Get tapped even for emergency's that it was designed to address. Reminds me of one of the last price increase on License's TPW sold us, saying that it would finance rebuilding fish hatcheries and adding more land for the public's access.HMMM...Really???
JMHO & YMMV
Ron


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"Those who fail to learn from History are doomed to repeat it" ....Santayana
Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7587402 08/23/19 02:22 PM
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Let the Non residents, that are seriously interested, apply after buying their license. Same with residents. That will eliminate a lot of them and if it doesn't at least Texas will get more money.

Re: draw hunt system [Re: dawson55] #7590289 08/26/19 10:32 PM
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So with this loyalty points system. If 100 people apply and you have 10 loyalty points. are you 10/100 or are possibly 10 out of 1000 if everyone has 10 points? But the applications shows last year that 100 people applied. Anyone know for sure how this system works

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