Hello all,

I am preparing for my first deer hunt in Texas. I am using a 308 Savage rifle. I practice at out door range 100 yards away.

Questions:

1. Where do I aim for ethical deer shot so deer goes down instantly?
2. I wanted to buy some deer targets. Which targets are good for practice?

Thank you

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Dee...mp;psc=1&refRID=QXGZGY732EMPR2AHPYHE


https://www.amazon.com/Life-Size-Vi...mp;psc=1&refRID=DEFDWM0K4EM9ZBMQ1MZW

1.) Google images of deer shot placement. Opinions will vary, but right behind the shoulder is what I like (lungs/heart)
2.) Any target is fine. Don't overthink it

Get on google images and search high shoulder shot. Basically straight up the front leg top 1/2 to 1/3 of the animal.

If you want them to fall on the spot heart/lung behind the shoulder is not the shot to take.

My shot placement for deer is the heart. Most drop on the spot, and if they do run, they only make it 10-20 yards.

My aiming spot from the picture below is 2 o'clock from the heart, or 2 o'clock from the circle "10". I aim for the bottom third of the deer. If you can visually look at the deer and draw 2 lines dissecting it into thirds, (2 horizontal lines evenly spaced) I aim for the bottom third line at the heart. Most of the time when field dressing the deer, I center punch the heart or take out the top of the heart where there is no blood circulating. IMO, if you shoot anything further back in the lungs, they will always run off and run some distance before expiring.

Also, think 3 dimensional. This picture is if the deer is broadside. If the deer is at an angle, I'm aiming for the heart still, but my bullet entry may change depending on the angle of the shot.

If you'd like to PM me your email, I'd be happy to send you a little PowerPoint tutorial that I put together a couple of years ago for someone about to take their first deer. It covers what you're asking about as well as discussing after-shot reactions by the animal.

Happy to help if I can,

Mark

Just because you can't hit the heart doesn't mean we can't. Keep practicing buddy and you'll get better

Also, I would just use a paper target and get your rifle dead on at 100 yards. Then practice shooting in field positions or the position you will be hunting from. Get off the bench at the gun range to get some good practice.

Wiser words were never spoken. And remember a .22 is a great (and economical) practice tool. Burn up 2-300 rounds of rimfire in serious offhand practice and watch you groups off the bench improve!

It's all about trigger management...

Mark

I've fired exactly 3 shots at deer over the last 3 years. All 3 took out the heart. Two of them were bang flop dead and the other made it about 15 yards - just far enough to fall over dead in a prickly pear patch.

With that being said, it may not be the best shot placement for a beginner, or for anyone who gets really excited or nervous about shooting a deer. The easiest shot, at least to me, is the high shoulder. Center of the shoulder left to right, upper 1/3 vertical. If that "buck of a lifetime" ever walks out in front of me, that's where he'll get it (I hope).

HAHA yes so funny.

While I wont try to say im perfect, the reason I don't hit the heart is because most of the time I shoot my deer in the neck. You can consult a depiction of the vitals of a deer to find out why it doesn't hit the heart.

He stated he wanted a DRT kill, sorry DRT isn't what comes to mind when you shoot behind the shoulders heart/lung.

I live by the high shoulder shot.

Shoulder/Spine/Shoulder equals DRT.

I practice with anatomical deer targets like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Caldwell-Natural-Whitetail-Deer-Target/dp/B00162NQFC

https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Dee...mp;psc=1&refRID=CK5XD0GRVTB98DWX6WV1

As has been mentioned already, get your rifle sighted in well (I like a 200 yard zero with the .308, about 2 inches high at 100 yards depending on the ammunition), then start working on field positions.

Just my .02 and good luck,
LeonCarr

This works also, especially for pigs. If you want to save as much meat, a high shoulder shot slightly forward towards the neck works well. If you have the rest and a really steady hold, a head shot on a doe works great for minimizing meat damage. I usually kick the stand or make a noise to freeze the deer looking at me so it doesn't move for a head shot. But I don't do that very often. I still prefer the heart shot.

This is my personal fave, considering the animal is broadside. They will drop faster than a prom dress.

Take out the heart and your job is done. On a broadside shot, I draw a line from the back of the leg up into the body about 4 inches, and that's where I aim. If it's an angle shot, I figure out where the heart is and aim for it. No matter what the angle is, I aim for the heart.

We clearly went to two different proms

No Professional Hunter in Africa ever said "Aim for the neck". There's a reason for that.

'Just got off a lease where the "manager" would always talk about his neck shots and imply that we should all be aiming for the neck. He, and his family, wounded more game than the other 3 on the lease combined.

I confess, I didn't go to that school either.......

I knew that girl. Quite well. (No, not THAT well, but very, very close.) But, I don't know if someone was decent enough to ask her to the prom. I wonder, and worry what happened to her...to this day.

Shoot him in the center of the neck, and he’ll be laying right in his tracks.

I hate to even post on a shot placement thread cause no one will ever agree and someone will contradict whatever is said. However, the OP seems like a novice so he needs and wants all the help he can get. Considering he is a novice im surprised at how many are telling him to aim for such small specific spots. If an expert can hit exactly where he aims then, yes, there are several quick kill spots to shoot for. But if he doesn't know where to aim then its not safe to assume hes a great shot, likely doesn't know how to acquire a good rest and factor in buck fever and he has no business aiming for an area without any forgiveness, IMO. I suggest he aim at the very middle of the entire vital area of the chest cavity. That way if he misses a little high or low or left or right he should still be ok. On Chads target above I would say that area is halfway between 8 and 10 and a little above the 8. I recommend this to almost any hunter unless I know hes an expert and in that case he doesn't need my advise. Also, if he hits solid shoulder and he is a novice he may not be using a bullet that's designed to penetrate the shoulder. Personally, if I have reason to think I have a real good hold on an expensive Trophy buck that ive hunted long and hard for I am aiming for middle shoulder from left to right which is pretty much straight up from leg. Up and down I aim a little below the mid point. Contrary to a whole lot of guys of here that I respect I do NOT go HIGH shoulder. Once again, not enough room for error if you miss a little high you are out of vitals. Same thing if you are a little high and forward or low and forward. With a well constructed bullet like partition I don't think it matters if its high shoulder or low shoulder or in the middle, hes going down right there(in my experience.) Consider your audience guys and give the rookie some room for a less than perfect shot. Goodo, if you want any one on one advice you can PM me and im sure a lot of others would say the same. And if you are not a novice then except my apology. Lastly, I don't claim to be an expert but I think these things through from all angles and as always its just my 2cents. Good luck.

I always shoot em in the lungs. Been doing it that way since about 1962. I aim a bit higher than Chad’s number 8. The benefit of that shot is that a fellow has a big kill zone, and if you underestimate the distance, the bullet will hit lower in the lungs or in the heart. Simply put, it’s very high percentage shot. But, if the OP wants the deer to drop on the spot, they rarely do when lung or heart shot. Years ago I aimed just where I suggested on a huge old buck. It was a real rush shot in dim light as he crossed a pipeline ROW, and I underestimated the distance and didn’t hit the lungs but blew his heart up (as the autopsy later showed). That old warrior went at least 75 yards into the biggest briar patch on the property. I heard him as he died at full speed and crashed through palmettos. Weighed right at 275 and was 9 points. Dead, but geographically in an awful spot. Normally they seem to go about 30 to 50 yards when lung shot. Always a good blood trail, since they blow it out both sides, and if you can’t track that, stay home or bring a friend that can.

OP said "ethical shot so deer goes down instantly". Im gonna guess that's not EXACTLY what he meant. Im reading between HIS lines but keep in mind he is evidently a novice. When he made his statement I bet he meant emphasis on the "ethical" which he likely meant as "for sure kill" and he wouldn't be opposed to a short tracking job. Im doubting he understands the subtle difference in killing surely and quickly as opposed to dead instantly. Once again, my 2cents and im guessing a couple cents for the OP.

I wasn't gonna comment on this one. If anything I come back to it to learn something for myself. But here goes.

I killed my first and only deer a few years ago. Perfect spine shot and yes that is what I was aiming for. It's possible for a novice to have a clue. I grew up around hunters that were pretty much a bunch of @&$? made promises to me and never came through. Enough of that subject haha. But at least i learned a little along the way.

The real reason I could not resist posting on this is i notice it is getting a little touchy.

Maybe as a new guy to deer hunting he is asking the wrong question by asking for advice on a DRT shot. Maybe not. Might have grew up in a household full of $&@ that were too worried about blowing their season to take the kid deer hunting. I know I aint the only one.

But, I digress.

I apologize if I came across a bit strong on that tracking statement. I didn’t mean to sound like that. Poor choice of words.

I’ve killed many deer over the decades, and the lung shot has always worked. There was a problem however. I started deer hunting with a 35 Remington, which is a bit range limited, though a great caliber. With the 35, I tended to aim high on the deer to be sure the bullet would drop into the heart/lung kill zone. It worked great, but then I moved to a 270. When in a hurry, I tended to fall back on the old ‘shoot high’ approach, which resulted in a spine shot. I found myself shooting too high too often. It was a hard habit to break.

Anyway, I do believe that a lung shot, high in the lungs, gives the biggest possible vital zone shot on deer. Newbies, in my experience, benefit from a big kill zone. But when I say to put the bullet behind the shoulder, I mean right behind the shoulder. That’ll give you frothy lung blood. Get too far back behind that shoulder and you get green stuff they had for breakfast, and best of luck tracking a gut shot deer.

If you want the largest room for error, then dead center of the shoulder and slightly back from the pocket of the shoulder will certainly work (right at the circle 8 location). Anywhere in that area will take down a deer. Some tracking may be involved, but it's generally an easy tail to follow.

For a beginner I would tell them to aim for the center of the front shoulder since it has the most margin for error and there's a good chance you'll break them down quickly....3-4 inches in any direction and you'll be good.

Personally I'm a fan of the high shoulder shot.

It's more fun to single lung and track for 200+ yards! Believe me. It was my biggest but omg did I get worried... When you do shoot and IF he runs, focus on landmarks if possible to find blood to track by. Haven't lost a deer since my first and did it hurt. Probably was dead 20 yards away but was near a fence and I was on 3K acres!! High shoulder would be best to drop him. Doe go down much easier but can still run.

Thank you redchevy,

I would like for the deer to fall on the spot with shot. Where to shoot please?

Thank you,

Thank you so much regularguy11B,

I am African American man and I enjoy the outdoors and always had a interest of hunting. My daughter is now going to college so i can now pursue my hobby of hunting. I have never hunted before. Everything is new, but I am enjoying the process.

My goal is to eventually start taking my step son and nephews to guided hunts in Texas so I can teach them how to hunt as well with their kids. So far its seems fun.

I grew up with noone to teach me hunting skills. So it is all new to me, including new culture.

Thanks freerange,

Yes, I mean for short tracking. I certainly do not want to harm the deer and never track him/her down or be searching for 100 yards. I am doing a paid guided hunt, so harming the deer or lost deer counts as paid.

Looks like everyone agrees on the heart shot or lung.

Always ask the guide what HE (or she) wants for shot placement. A good guide will tell you exactly where he wants it. Assuming he's not some wet-behind-the-ears kid. (I've had a guide like that once. Montana elk. Drunk little idiot.)

NO NO Goodo, everyone did NOT agree on the heart/lung. For a novice, and almost anyone that's unsure of perfect placement for various reasons, then I think it is plenty good enough and allows the more forgiving and largest aiming point. However, many on here are VERY EXPERIENCED and they recommend other aim points. I suggest you reread all posts and continue to follow the thread.
You are very lucky to have discovered this forum at the beginning of your hunting career. Lots of us old guys on here have spent a lifetime learning the hard way a ton of stuff that you will be able to learn on here in no time. The information age has accelerated the learning curve on soooooo many things. You just have to be smart and pick through a lot of BS on here, but the good stuff is there. Good luck.

Also Goodo, if you are serious about learning things right then you may want to consider going to Firemans range. He offers instruction and has hunting simulated stations available. I think his instruction may just be geared for more precision shooting which is more than you need but he may offer a beginners basics type course. Im sure he will chime in, or others, and correct me if im wrong. Also, I think its interesting you pointed out that you are African American. Its fine that you did but I sure hope it doesn't matter to this crowd.

That shot will work a high percentage of the time.........I like high middle of the shoulder much better. It anchors them without having to trail......and if you hit off target chances of a gut shot are very slim.......this cannot be said of the lung shot as far as gut shots go.

Many call this area the crease, right at the top of the shoulder where the bottom of their neck starts. There is currently a thread on "hunting a Michigan HF ranch" that stxranchman posted some great info on this shot placement with pics.

If I have a first time hunter I tell them to shoot the Deer right through the middle of the front shoulder. That will usually break them down on the spot. Wastes a lot of meat but they don't go far.

If you want this, put the bullet in the shoulder. They will fall quickly.

Berger bullets had a good video on YouTube about shooting deer in the shoulder.

We all started hunting at one point with little to no experience. We relied heavily on what we were taught by someone on where to place the bullet on a deer. That placement was based off the teachers hunting experience with that shot placement. When I started hunting I was taught to take only a heart shot or worst case lung shot for bullet placement. We not to take any shoulder, neck or head shots for our first kill on a deer. After about 15-20 yrs of shooting and tracking deer from heart/lung shots, I gravitated to middle of the shoulders...older hunter told me "if you take the running gear out, he ain't going to far". So I then aimed to break both shoulders and deer went down or they did not go very far. Advance a few years after the middle of the shoulder shot, I went to aiming for the point of the shoulder and then high shoulder shots. When I get a broadside shot I still shoot for the high shoulder shot vast majority of my shots. It is a shot that has just worked well for me with almost never a track job.

This is what we were taught by the hunters in East Texas. The lung shot was considered to be very second rate to a heart shot. Of course, where we hunted tracking a deer thru the thick east texas brush wasn't much easier than tracking a deer in south texas so I wonder why they advocated that shot.....I've seen heart shot deer run quite a ways before piling up.

Thank you so much ChadTRG42,

So practice aiming at the heart and I should be good.

You’re welcome!!! Hope that helps!

Thank you freerange.

I was planning to buy the the deer targets and practice shooting at the targets on the deer at the gun range. Just using a little common sense here, but would not seem logical to aim at the heart.

I will be sure to ask the guide when I go. Maybe I just call him up and ask him since I am sure he seen many deer go down.

Thanks

It is my PERSONAL experience, after 50 years of hunting, is that there aren't a lot of sure things when it comes to the tenacity of a deer. I've broken shoulders and lost deer. That happened last year but wasn't the only time. I've searched and finally found deer that I blew up the heart. I only hunt my own land and it is THICK oaks. A WT can go an amazing distance with no heart or lungs.

Goodo,, you are doing good. It seems youre thoughts are bouncing around just like all the advice is bouncing around. You will NEVER get a consensus of opinion on this subject from any group of hunters. Another piece of advice from me is to take a deep breath and not get in a hurry to decide where to aim. If you practice shooting ANY target and can hit where you aim then it will be easy to adjust that aiming point a little as you get close to hunt time. For now just keep reading and rereading these posts and later on you will ultimately do what makes sense to you.
About advice from the guide. I would ask him and he shouldn't mind being asked. BUT your "guide" is likely to be very good or he is just as likely to not be so good. Some of the guys giving you advise on this thread are as good or much better than the average guide. What I WOULD ask him is what type of hunting you should expect in regard to what type rest will be available and what distance to expect.
When this thread slows down you should start a new one about how to acquire the proper "rest" which will steady as much of your whole body as you can. That would be a great thread for a whole lot of folks on here to learn from, including me and I think I know more than most.

Great illustration Quitshoot. IMO if I was advising a novice, like OP, I would want the biggest margin for error since he is likely not a great shot. In that case I would split the difference on the two spots on those pictures. Even myself I would split the difference and move into the shoulder just a little so im center shoulder from left to right. I have a lot of respect for guys on here saying high shoulder but I guess im not a good enough shot. I just don't think there is NEAR enough room for error on either heart shot or high shoulder. My 2cents, again. Thanks Quitshoot.

agree with you totally Freerange - in this particular situation the common sense placement for the OP and safest

Most of the bucks I shoot are square through both shoulders, a bit forward of center. I do not like a heart shot because it often leads to high leg shots. If I can't get them broadside, with both front legs directly beneath them, I shoot them exactly where stxranchman does. Does and cull bucks get shot in the neck just in front of their shoulder, or in the head. If I have to take a shot on a deer facing straight toward me, I shoot them in the center of their white throat patch.

Thank you so much QuitShootinYoungBucks,

So if the deer is facing that way in the picture.

Questions:

1. So if the deer is facing that way in the picture I attached, where do I aim to shoot at?
2. Do I wait until the deer turn sideways? In the hunting shows, I think they wait until the deer turn side ways.

Thanks

The bottom picture shows the shot placement much further back than it should be. That location where the X is would be an improper shot placement, IMO. With the buck quarter facing you, you should shoot in front of the shoulder, not behind it. If you shot where that X is, the bullet will exit out the back half of the other side, and most likely have a gut shot deer. That's too far back. You have to think 3 dimensionally on where the hear and lung area is. I would not shoot a deer in that location where the yellow X is on the bottom picture.

IMO, I would aim about 3"-4" left of the yellow X in the bottom picture.

Think of the yellow X as a fulcrum point that is stationary, but with the vitals behind it. When broadside, the boiler room is right behind it, but as the deer quarters and turns, the boiler room behind the yellow X follows suit and ends "misplaced". Its like spinning a globe, the countries don't move, but their location in proportion to you are shifted.

Getting the perfect broadside shot is not always easy. I would study where the vitals are from different angles so that you are prepared to take a shot that is not perfect. The angle the deer is standing at to you will effect where you want to aim to hit vitals. Here is a link with some info that might help you prepare for that not perfectly broadside shot.
https://www.tnhuntingclub.com/hunting-tips/shooting-at-deer-from-different-angles/
Another link with more info on shot placement.
https://outdoorever.com/best-places-to-shoot-a-deer/#tab-con-22

I have to comment. Some awesome info here. But How in the world did all of us old guys learn to shoot a deer 30-50 years ago before internet and forums? Information is good but sometimes too much information is not good.

To the OP - go to the range and practice shooting a target - make sure your rifle is zeroed in. When the moment comes to pull the trigger on a deer you may get a little shaky
- that is normal. Do the best you can. Aim for the center of the shoulder. If you mess up? You will not be the first to do so. At the end of the day just go enjoy being outdoors and the experience.

As usual Stxranchman has came through. The man posts so many links I don't know if he just looks those up on the spot or if he has them saved somewhere in a deer hunters cloud. That one on shot placement should be required reading for all deer hunters.
As tlk said anyone starting out nowdays is so lucky to have all the information at hand and especially on this forum. Some one said the forum should be required in hunters ed and I agree. How did us old guys ever learn to shoot without the information age--for me and im sure for most it was our Dad or close family member. I remember before I started deer hunting(pre teen) Dad had me cut out a ton of different pics of deer from Outdoor Life and Field and Stream etc and mark where I would aim for. I have tweaked that aiming point a little over 54 hunting years but between Dads spot and my new spot almost all deer died when I did my part. Like tlk said and others practice a lot and just think 3 dimensionally and aim middle of the entire kill zone and you will be fine. Everybody that's shot enough deer has lost a deer.

Honestly, any area between those yellow and red dots is going to kill the deer. He might drop or he might run a bit. Center punch a doe in that area, it is dropping 9 out of 10 times. Within 200 yards you should be fine as you will be dead on or an inch high/low.

As tlk said. Don't make this more difficult than it really is. Pick a capable caliber, practice, and be confident in your cold bore shot

^^^^^^^^^this

High shouler shot is what I go for and Ii try to place so it will get the far shoulder. Learned that trick from an African PH. In order for the bullet to get to the far shoulder it has to pass through the vitals and if you break the far shoulder eith the energy of th bullet going away the animal will go straigt down. Hitting the near shoulder doesn't always mean you hit the vitals but the far shoulder does.

Now it’s probably time to start giving tips on tracking wounded deer.

this is what happens to us in the off season tlk, LOL!

All of us have learned how to blood trail too. I would rather my kids learn to be expert Marksman, drop animals where they stand or awefully close to where they stood, than to be expert trackers.

Victory favors the prepared.

No getting around the fact that blood trailing is a skill that all hunters need to develop. If a fellow hasn’t needed to do it, he will eventually. Hunting with an experienced old guy, to learn the ropes, would be advised. I learned the basics of the art from my Grandfather and due to some wobbly shooting as a young man I honed the skills over the decades.

The way I see it, the last sight picture I had when the rifle fired is where the bullet went. And assuming it went where it was supposed to, the deer is dead. If it isn’t laying in plain sight, I just need to find it. Usually it’s easy, but not always.

Dang, I wish Deer season would hurry up.

Yeah it is time for some cool weather, football, and deer hunting to kick in! Putting our trail cameras out this weekend so for me that is sort of the beginning of the deer part.

What I have seen is. A person can be the best marksman in the world on targets. But that means squat when the target becomes a live Deer.

True. I've tried to think a station for a hunting challenge all the way through. Something liike this: Open range, 100 yards wide, 400 yards long. The view of the range is obstructed as the shooter gets in a prone position. Rifle on safety. Obstruction is removed, shooter has five seconds to find and hit a 6" x 12" plate, that is "somewhere" within the field of fire. I've shot a lot of deer within a few seconds of seeing them, sometimes that's all you have. Call the range cold, every body turn around, have a high school track star move the plate, next shooter up.

"All of us have learned how to blood trail too. I would rather my kids learn to be expert Marksman, drop animals where they stand or awefully close to where they stood, than to be expert trackers.

Victory favors the prepared."

This is what I believe also.

I think the hardest step for a new hunter is going from a "target shooter" to a "game shooter". Start with bullseye/sight-in targets to get the rifle sighted in, and then as soon as you are competent in group shooting go to the deer anatomy targets I mentioned earlier in the thread. These targets have helped me drastically increase my DRT shots on deer.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Boy, that's the truth.

Another thing to do each time you're in stand. Practice getting your rifle up and on the 1st few deer that you see. That way you'll have made your mistakes (banging the blind wall and determined which windows make noise) on deer that you don't really care to shoot and hopefully learned from your mistakes.

JR

^^^^^Good advice. Along with a lot of others.

Since I'm a long way from where I hunt. And it's too hot here to go outside.
For practice I have set up pop up blind in basement with chair and everything else I have in blind and a deer and hog target down the hall and in the reloading room as far as possible. I practice picking up rifle, getting on target, and dry fire. I literally can do it with eyes closed.

M

Since this is your first deer hunt in Texas, lets keep it simple. Just aim and hit the deer directly in the shoulder.

Or the neck. They don't go anywhere with that busted.

I’ve seen deer run a really long ways with no heart. I’ve seen very few double lung shot deer run more than 50 yards.

High shoulder is unethical IMO. Why aim for an edible quarter of the deer. Shoulder roasts are my favorite part and I don’t want bullet and bone fragments scattered through my roasts. I’ve also seen deer with softball sized holes after their shoulder blade was destroyed still alive. Yeah they dropped on the spot, but were very much alive 20-30 mins later when we went to retrieve it.

I also love eating the heart. I always tell my kids don’t hit my shoulders and try to save me the heart. They have double lunged every deer they’ve shot and furthest one ran 50 yards.

Oh yeah? Well I met a guy once and HIS kids hit every deer in the ear...at 400...with a .223.

(This thread will still be going when the OP's an old man and his walls are full of shoulder mounts.)

This.

I’ll gladly trade 2lbs of shoulder meat for a deer that crumpled on the spot.

Goodo....

We have more opinions on this site than members. I have shot more than my fair share of deer. With "only" 30+ years experience, what I can tell you is that different deer react differently. I have shot deer in heart/lungs and had them drop. I have had them run for 100+ yards on the same shot. I have seen deer run with broken shoulders.

The only guaranteed DRT shot is a Head shot, but that is never easy. And if you want antlers, they will be destroyed. And spineing the deer, doesn't always kill them clean. They may go down, but they may not be dead.

I have also seen a neck shot not expand, go thru and the deer survive.

Best advise that I can give you, is to accept it MAY not be a perfectly clean kill. You may have to track the deer. Many times they are dead, and their bodies/instincts just don't know it. Do your best. Accept that it may or not be clean. And enjoy the full experience!!!!!

I go for the lung shot,Yes they will run some, but it does ot tear-up shoulders and leaves meat intact...usually wont run over at the most 100 yrds if that far...shoot thru the shoulders if you want to knock them down, but you now have 2 shot-up shoulders with splintered bone in the meat,, its a shooters choice,,

Knew a guy once that was torn up when his head shot ended up taking off the lower jaw of a deer. Terrible and very painful way for an animal to die from starvation.

My ego isn't so big that I need to take head shots.