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Mar 25th, 2012
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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7552686
07/10/19 12:43 AM
07/10/19 12:43 AM
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Jeff in TX-- I wouldn't normally be real nosey but since you listed JD Ranch in your profile I hope you wont mind telling us a little about it and how you may be affiliated. Just curious, no offense if you ignore the request. Welcome to the forum.


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: freerange] #7552733
07/10/19 01:41 AM
07/10/19 01:41 AM
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J&D Ranch Olney, TX
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This question is exactly why I ordered a NF NX8. I'll have 4x on the low end and 32x on the high end. The minimum parallax setting is 11 freaking yards (super close range) and it has 90 MOA of internal elevation adjustment (super long range). I can use the same scope to hunt from my bow blind at 17 yards, or hit a steel plate at 2000 yards. There's no need to have single-purpose scopes with today's technology.


Imthereason--- curious, im new to even thinking about this "high end shooting game", what would a scope like you described cost??


This question kind of opens Pandora's box. Lot of factors come into play shooting 1K let alone 2K yards. First you need a cartridge and high BC bullet to stretch out those distances. Your bullet darn near needs to still be supersonic or close to it to accurately hit something that far out. If your bullet drops into the subsonic or transonic speeds all bets are off for repeatably or even calculate. Can you lob one in and get a hit, absolutely, though repeating it will be difficult. Once you've got a good rifle, good cartridge and bullet, say a .50 cal, 404 or 408 Cheytac or maybe .338 Lapua mag with high BC bullet, then comes the glass.

A $200 scope on top of a great rifle could make the hits at 2K. However, the optics for such shoots wouldn't be the best suited. Most of the higher end scopes lines with great glass from Schott or other high end optical glass manufactures make this a bit easier. Crystal clear optics, great clarity make all the difference in the world. When it comes to scopes and scope optics you pay for what you get. Some of the best scope manufactures in world us Schott, some like Swarovski and others make their own high end glass. How much internal adjustment do you have. Some scopes come with upwards to 90 moa of vertical adjustment some have even more. Scope mounts come with built in MOA to assist. Some shooters don't use turrets and elevation to make shots beyond 1000 yard. They use custom reticles like the ones Horus manufactures. These provide very precise hold overs for elevation and windage. They're very busy to look at but once you have them figured it out, they're quick and precise.

To really answer your questions most of the high end scopes with good to great glass and the power ranges necessary start around $1K but more likely for extreme distance shooting I'm betting most folks are paying in the $2 to $3K range or more.

Distance shooting is a lot of fun. Distance shooting doesn't always mean shooting really long distances. We do a watermelon shoot out at the ranch occasionally. .22 LR at 400 yards with open sights. It's a ton a fun and kinda like shooting a target at 2K. My boys cheat and use their scopes but it's still a chore to hit a watermelon at that distances.

Hope it helps!


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: freerange] #7552745
07/10/19 01:55 AM
07/10/19 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This question is exactly why I ordered a NF NX8. I'll have 4x on the low end and 32x on the high end. The minimum parallax setting is 11 freaking yards (super close range) and it has 90 MOA of internal elevation adjustment (super long range). I can use the same scope to hunt from my bow blind at 17 yards, or hit a steel plate at 2000 yards. There's no need to have single-purpose scopes with today's technology.


Imthereason--- curious, im new to even thinking about this "high end shooting game", what would a scope like you described cost??


The retail on the Nightforce 4-32 is $2150


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: freerange] #7552750
07/10/19 01:59 AM
07/10/19 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Jeff in TX-- I wouldn't normally be real nosey but since you listed JD Ranch in your profile I hope you wont mind telling us a little about it and how you may be affiliated. Just curious, no offense if you ignore the request. Welcome to the forum.


Not at all. Probably not the place for this but you asked. My wife and I own 162.5 acres west of Olney TX. It's in the middle of nowhere TX as I tell folks. We named it the J&D Ranch after myself and my wife Denise. We have tons of hogs and our deer population is finally starting to rebound after my knot head neighbor on my south end of my property high fenced his 408 acres. It really put a hurting on us for a few years. We usually get one one or two 130 class bucks off it each year. We deer manage with our neighbors and only take 5.5 year old bucks or older. We don't hold turkeys as I'm too far off the river. We've got a one acre tank, though with all the rains we've had it's about 30 acres as there's no place for the water to go. The grounds are saturated. We run cattle, usually 10 to 15 steer calves until they get around 800 lbs and off to the sell barn they go. We have five Texas Longhorns that are lawn ornaments for the most part. Three of them have horns pushing almost 7', gentle giants but impressive to look at.

It's our little piece of paradise!

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My wife's deer from two years ago
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Mine from last year
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Last edited by Jeff in TX; 07/10/19 02:08 AM.

Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7552765
07/10/19 02:16 AM
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I like Jeff. Welcome to the forum.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: scottfromdallas] #7552788
07/10/19 02:34 AM
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Im glad I asked. I just spent the last few days out in nowhere TX as I often do and just got back so too tired to elaborate. Only 7 posts and someone already said they like you, that's impressive. Since you are new to the forum I will caution you about your high fence neighbor comments. Its a polarizing topic on here(and most places) and you may get some negative comments. Im not saying I care one way or another about your comments but I just hope you have a chance to feel your way around this forum before you feel you have to defend yourself against some negativity. You seem to have a wealth of good info and you could be a great contributor to an already GREAT FORUM so my unasked for advice is to beware the pot holes. smile


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7552793
07/10/19 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
This question is exactly why I ordered a NF NX8. I'll have 4x on the low end and 32x on the high end. The minimum parallax setting is 11 freaking yards (super close range) and it has 90 MOA of internal elevation adjustment (super long range). I can use the same scope to hunt from my bow blind at 17 yards, or hit a steel plate at 2000 yards. There's no need to have single-purpose scopes with today's technology.


Imthereason--- curious, im new to even thinking about this "high end shooting game", what would a scope like you described cost??


The retail on the Nightforce 4-32 is $2150


Thanks Quitshoot, that was the type answer I was looking for in this instance, but Jeffs answer Im sure served a very good purpose. For sure no sarcasm there cause I learn most of my stuff on threads I don't even think I have an interest in. I love this forum.


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: freerange] #7552811
07/10/19 03:05 AM
07/10/19 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Im glad I asked. I just spent the last few days out in nowhere TX as I often do and just got back so too tired to elaborate. Only 7 posts and someone already said they like you, that's impressive. Since you are new to the forum I will caution you about your high fence neighbor comments. Its a polarizing topic on here(and most places) and you may get some negative comments. Im not saying I care one way or another about your comments but I just hope you have a chance to feel your way around this forum before you feel you have to defend yourself against some negativity. You seem to have a wealth of good info and you could be a great contributor to an already GREAT FORUM so my unasked for advice is to beware the pot holes. smile


Thanks for the advice, I have thick skin. I don't have issues with high fences when they're done properly. Our local game biologist tried to tell my neighbor the minimum acreage to high fence is usually around 1200 acres. Fencing 400 acres was too small an area. It is what it is.


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: FiremanJG] #7552858
07/10/19 05:53 AM
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FiremanJG wrote:

I disagree with part of this. It does not have to do with distance, it relates to heat, and light.

Yes, we both understand the refraction that takes place. Of course the 'more' atmospheric/light refraction you have (read more distance) the more mirage you will be looking through. Perhaps I presented it poorly. I am not suggesting that 'distance' creates mirage. I am saying that under most conditions where you have Inferior Mirage, it will look worse (as viewed through optics) as distance increases.

I can assure you mirage is present at only 100 yards.

Absolutely. And it is conditions, distance and Mirage Density (Light, Medium, Heavy) that will determine if we see it or it constitutes a problem.

This time of year it gives me enough trouble that I back down magnification when I am zeroing, or a load development. Today, in fact, I had to turn magnification down for 300 yard shooting, the mirage was so thick.

Not surprised. Mirage (typically Inferior this time of year) is a rising Mirage (ground temp hotter than air above it) and is usually the most unstable kind. Backing off on the magnification of your scope increases resolution so your target 'should' appear a bit clearer and mirage a bit less noticeable. We all do the same thing (find that point of diminishing returns). The most magnification and clarity possible.



Shooter position versus target position also comes into play. On the ground, shooting at something on the ground can wreak havoc to image clarity. Elevate the shooter, and things can clear up.

Correct. Angle of Incidence. Very important.


I also spot using mirage 12 months a year. Yes it is worse in the heat, but it is still there in cold weather.

Yes Sir. Inferior Mirage when the cooler temp is on top (rising) and Superior the inverse. But Superior is usually MUCH more stable (falling) because the cooler temp at or near ground level can't fall (it is constrained) and tends to stay in place...while at the same time the warmer air naturally wants to rise. Much less turbulent in most situations.



I agree, it is a helpful tool, but to a point. It helps, when I need to get a read on what the wind is doing. To do that, I take the target out of focus.

Same. By focusing on an area a bit over 1/2 way to the target...you can see the 'mirage' much better...particularly when there are Wind Values involved.

Again, this technique works 12 months per year. Then, the mirage can become a problem. No matter what is done to the focus knob, the image will not clear up. Thus the use of FFP scopes. When mirage is too thick, turn down magnification until things clear up, but I still want all the magnification I can get.

There can be conditions where no adjustment is sufficient to clear things up very well. This past weekend we were shooting over open terrain, 1770 yds. Mid Afternoon (hot) sun baked limestone. Wind was for the most part behind us (good for not having to dope the wind), but bad for Mirage because it creates what we call a 'boiling mirage'. Heavy uplift of refracted light. As a result we were being fooled (initially) into shooting higher than intended and even with decent scopes (NightForce ATACR 5-25X56) the target was always a bit blurry.


Such is the game.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Sir,

Flint.

Last edited by flintknapper; 07/10/19 05:57 AM.

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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: flintknapper] #7552871
07/10/19 10:26 AM
07/10/19 10:26 AM
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I absolutely hate a head or tail wind. It will not stay at 12 o'clock, or 6 o'clock, it will be 11 to 1 o'clock or 5 to 7 o' clock. And then you better be reading mirage, because holds go from right to left in a second or two. Give me a 10 mph wind at 3 to 9 o'clock any day.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7553265
07/10/19 07:25 PM
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I have always preferred higher magnification. Majority of my hunting life I have made head/neck shots, precision is needed or you will have the dreaded fall down and run off never to find scenario. Perhaps its the scopes I have used, but my old leupold vx2 from 30 years ago covers a lot of a 60 lb hill country doe on the lower end of the mag range at 100 yards.

Same scope above shooting on a bench at 100 yards on 9 power the crosshairs cover the bullseye

As a side note I have always had poor vision and it seems as though it hasn't gotten any better since I have gotten older and picked up welding etc.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: dee] #7553454
07/10/19 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dee
It's tough to beat a 3-15 with really good glass.

If I could have only one scope with unlimited funds, it'd be a Tangent Theta 3-15 with Gen3XR. Fully agree with this.

Although I agree with Jeremy that the new NF NX8 at 4-32 is extremely compelling.

Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: patriot07] #7553542
07/11/19 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by dee
It's tough to beat a 3-15 with really good glass.

If I could have only one scope with unlimited funds, it'd be a Tangent Theta 3-15 with Gen3XR. Fully agree with this.

Although I agree with Jeremy that the new NF NX8 at 4-32 is extremely compelling.


I played with a friends 5-25 tangent with a gen3xr and liked everything except the center aiming dot was huge.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: dee] #7553548
07/11/19 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dee
Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by dee
It's tough to beat a 3-15 with really good glass.

If I could have only one scope with unlimited funds, it'd be a Tangent Theta 3-15 with Gen3XR. Fully agree with this.

Although I agree with Jeremy that the new NF NX8 at 4-32 is extremely compelling.


I played with a friends 5-25 tangent with a gen3xr and liked everything except the center aiming dot was huge.

I haven't seen it in person - seen pics and it didn't seem nearly as bid looking through the scope as it did on paper.

I'd imagine you wouldn't need such a big dot on a 3-15.

I think part of it has to do as much about the surrounding reticle design as it does the dot itself. The dot on my Delta Stryker is .03, but because the surrounding reticle components are visible at low-mag, but not overhwelming at high-mag, it's still serviceable at both ends. I love the fine aiming dot at high mag, and it goes to 30x so anything above .04 would be really large.

Last edited by patriot07; 07/11/19 01:12 AM.
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7553575
07/11/19 01:43 AM
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In the grand scheme it shouldn't be much bigger in appearance than the dot in my h59 seeing has how the horus is .05 and the tth is .075. It was very evident on being bigger though which both of us commented on while comparing. The tree on the gen3xr is perfect though. That being said I have little to no complaints of the gen2xr besides lack of .2 mil holds but the .5 are really perfect for a hunting gun and still manageable on long range.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7553899
07/11/19 02:45 PM
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On my hunting rifles I prefer something between 2-7 and 4-12.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7554010
07/11/19 05:36 PM
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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Smokey Bear] #7554029
07/11/19 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Smokey Bear
On my hunting rifles I prefer something between 2-7 and 4-12.


I'm right there with you on the 2-7!


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7554403
07/12/19 01:59 AM
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That depends of the rifle I am using. I prefer a 2.5-10 on my ar10, a 5-25 on my long range bolt rifles, and something like a 2.5-20 or 5.5-22 on my mid-range bolt rifles. For my pig guns I like to use a eotech or aimpoint that will work with nods, or a low magnification thermal.

Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7554530
07/12/19 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by fray
"The better you can see something, the easier it is to shoot it." Just wondering what this really means - as a former TT student and grad of a NM university and and OK university....just askin?


What about that is confusing to you? I guess more clearly stated, higher magnification lets you see things better in most cases, and targets that appear larger can be easier to hit.


I will respectfully disagree a bit on this one. When I shoot my wife's rifle with the scope power set to 14 or my sons rifle set on 18 I'm very prone to notice my heart beat and the movements in the reticle that go with my heart beat. Including any body changes in my position that aren't rock solid. At lower powers it's not noticeable. I can still feel it and try to shoot between heart beats. Using anything much over 10x in the Texas summer or fall you'll find the mirage a nightmare to see through. On a cold cloudy day the higher power doesn't contend with the mirage but the reticle still bumps with the heart beat and body positioning.

I've just never seen a need for anything over 10X. I've hit a 2' steel circle at 1600 meters with my .338 Lapua mag with just 10X without any issues. Also, shooting moving targets is much easier to acquire, lead and shoot with lower magnification than higher, even at longer ranges and especially short ranges.

BTW, I'm an A&M grad. Not sure what that gets me. My wife will tell you I'm just a poor dumb educated country boy! grin


Obviously you didn't major in reading, because you ignored 'most cases' and 'can be'. grin I never said it applied in all, which is the beauty of a variable-power optic.

Your heartbeat/body is moving the rifle just as much on 10X as it is on 20X, noticing it has nothing to do with the accuracy of the shot. You know how to build a position, the rifle will be just as still regardless. And the argument could be made that noticing that movement gives you a better chance to fine-tune the shot/body position. You can watch it bounce a couple of times so that when you're ready, and it settles after the bounce, you'll be right there.

I've shot a lot in the Texas heat and almost never had much of a mirage issue until about 18X. Again, 'most cases'. I have encountered some of the mirage of which you speak and it can definitely be brutal.

well said


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: colt45] #7555155
07/13/19 11:03 AM
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About all Ive ever used on hunting rifles is 2.5x8. Its on about 4 if im walking and 8 otherwise. I don't take shots over 200 to 250 at the most.


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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7559191
07/18/19 11:33 AM
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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7560953
07/20/19 11:43 PM
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Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: Jeff in TX] #7561364
07/21/19 06:40 PM
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I prefer no scope at all, for the kind of hunting I do. Maybe down the road that will change, when my debt is smaller, my income is higher, my kids are grown, and I can travel to places that good scope is required.

I can't stand big heavy scopes though. I would say any more than 16 oz in a scope is extreme overkill and would prefer half to 3/4 of that max. Smaller objectives and lower rings are a plus.

But I hunt public land and I don't have time to scout or build blinds or etc. My "scouting" is done while actually hunting or fishing. I'm happy when I have time to get out there and be in the woods at all. If I had a good spoot with permanent blinds or stands and things like that and long shooting lanes or a beanfield or etc. it would change everything.


-Bryan
Re: Low or high scope magnification preferences [Re: FiremanJG] #7561379
07/21/19 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG


About to add a 3-15X. (the magnification range that will do it all!)



I would like to see the SWFA 3-15 with HD glass.

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