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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7558332 07/17/19 04:13 AM
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I'd like to hear some theory/explanation on why you think they produce notably different food, otherwise it just sounds like egotistical nonsense such as vinyl sounding better than CDs. Granted pulled-pork is a low bar, but I've produced pulled-pork on a POS Masterbuilt that's on par with anything I've gotten at a restaurant. And I've been to Blacks, Kreutz, Evie Mae's, and a lot of other 'good bbq' places and know the difference between good food and good BBQ. Why do you doubt it can be done on a pellet grill? Just because you haven't observed it?


I didn't intend to show any ego. It's seems like common knowledge among the smoking world that, while pellet grills are great products, they can't produce the quality of offset smokers. You don't see pellet smokers in competition or at well know BBQ restaurants for a reason. Of they were so great why wouldn't a BBQ restaurant jump at the chance to automate there cooking? Sounds like a massive win for them.

The only egotistical thing I said is, "If you think a pellet smoker works as well as an offset, it's only because you don't know how to use an offset smoker." Which I stand by that statement.

What I mean is, there are very obvious differences. Such as the location of the heat source being directly under the meat in a pellet grill versus the side heat of an offset. If you use a stick burner with the heat coming from below the meat, it will also be a different end product. It completely changes the airflow in the smoking chamber. The airflow moving across the meat horizontally increases the smoke intake. The combustion of a stick burner sucks in more air than any pellet smoker will because of the larger combustion of logs. One of the chemicals in smoke that helps create a smoke ring is called nitric oxide. A stick fire can put 75-200ppm of nitric oxide from the smoke into the meat. While a pellet smoker puts 25-50 ppm of nitric oxide in beef, these measurements were taken when the meat surface reaches 170 degrees, and no more smoke will be taken into the meat. Part of the reason behind this is the type of combustion that happens with each process. A stick burner has full-on combustion and causes the right amount of air movement. A pellet grill has a smoldering fire created by the pellets. These are two different types of combustion that produce different results.

Now I have provided scientific evidence of why they are different. I hope you will do the same to prove that pellet grills are equivalent. Like I've said this entire time. You can make good smoked food with a pellet grill, but not great. They are hands down the best grill you can get for steaks, burgers, and things like that. But can't keep in the smoking department.

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Thisisbeer] #7558357 07/17/19 09:21 AM
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Case closed.

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7558451 07/17/19 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by QuitShootinYoungBucks
Originally Posted by Thisisbeer
Originally Posted by GunsUp18
Originally Posted by Land_Man
Anybody that says u can't get good smokey flavor out of a pellet grill clearly doesn't know what they're doing with their pellet grill. I've owned one for years and consistently make briskets, ribs, chicken that amazes almost every person that tries it. U gotta know your smoker and work it correctly....just like any other smoker. They're like knowing your wife....gotta know how to get her goin.... 😎


Anybody who says they can get good smoke flavor with a pellet grill clearly doesn't know anything about good bbq. ha



That's my thought. I'll say it again, you can smoke good food on a pellet grill. But the best pellet grill will not be as good as the best stick burner. I've found that the people that tell me the pellet grill is just as good just aren't as picky about there food as I am. Most of these people can make good food on a stick burner, but they dont really know how to make great BBQ. It's like people enjoying boiled ribs with liquid smoke.

It's all about what you want. If you want to make decent smoked food most people will like, a pellet grill will do it. If you want to make great smoked food that people wont stop talking about, a stick burner is the only way.



I'd like to hear some theory/explanation on why you think they produce notably different food, otherwise it just sounds like egotistical nonsense such as vinyl sounding better than CDs. Granted pulled-pork is a low bar, but I've produced pulled-pork on a POS Masterbuilt that's on par with anything I've gotten at a restaurant. And I've been to Blacks, Kreutz, Evie Mae's, and a lot of other 'good bbq' places and know the difference between good food and good BBQ. Why do you doubt it can be done on a pellet grill? Just because you haven't observed it?


Thisisbeer speaks the truth.

I've spent the last decade obsessed with eating and cooking bbq. I've traveled all over this great country eating different types and talking with the pitmasters. I've had been fortunate enough to talk with and visit the pit rooms with some of the greats you mentioned like Barret Black (Blacks), Arnis Robbins (Evie Mae's) and Roy Perez (Kreutz) for my blog. I've cooked on numerous different kinds of smokers and have owned a pellet grill myself for two years (Rec Tec and Green Mountain Grills). Like I said earlier for large cuts such as brisket, pork butts and ribs the pellet grill cannot get anywhere near the flavor of an offset stick burner or a charcoal grill, hell it can't touch a Masterbuilt. Does it mean it's bad food no. I've had people rant and rave about briskets I've cooked on a my pellet grill, but it is nothing compared to what I cook on other smokers. A pellet grill will give you that pretty smoke ring, but that smoke ring does not have anything to do with the smoke flavor. To answer the person who stated I just don't know how to use my pellet grill thats just not the case. Any food I've had on a pellet grill just doesn't match up. I have a friend in the bbq business who is a brand ambassador who used to only cook on eggs and offsets, until a pellet grill company signed him up to endorse their grills. His briskets aren't as good as they once were but still good. Hell he even admits he still cooks on the eggs when he is at home and not promoting their product. So why do I still own a pellet grill, its because I absolutely love it for burgers, steaks, hotdogs, pork chops and especially chicken. The wings they put out will give you chills. The smoke from a pellet grill penetrates these cuts of meat so much better without overpowering the meat.

But all of this discussion is what makes bbq fun. I do enjoy hearing everyone's opinions even if they are wrong. ha


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7558528 07/17/19 02:43 PM
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Great...now I have to get BOTH. smile ani


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Thisisbeer] #7558571 07/17/19 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Thisisbeer
Quote
I'd like to hear some theory/explanation on why you think they produce notably different food, otherwise it just sounds like egotistical nonsense such as vinyl sounding better than CDs. Granted pulled-pork is a low bar, but I've produced pulled-pork on a POS Masterbuilt that's on par with anything I've gotten at a restaurant. And I've been to Blacks, Kreutz, Evie Mae's, and a lot of other 'good bbq' places and know the difference between good food and good BBQ. Why do you doubt it can be done on a pellet grill? Just because you haven't observed it?


I didn't intend to show any ego. It's seems like common knowledge among the smoking world that, while pellet grills are great products, they can't produce the quality of offset smokers. You don't see pellet smokers in competition or at well know BBQ restaurants for a reason. Of they were so great why wouldn't a BBQ restaurant jump at the chance to automate there cooking? Sounds like a massive win for them.

The only egotistical thing I said is, "If you think a pellet smoker works as well as an offset, it's only because you don't know how to use an offset smoker." Which I stand by that statement.

What I mean is, there are very obvious differences. Such as the location of the heat source being directly under the meat in a pellet grill versus the side heat of an offset. If you use a stick burner with the heat coming from below the meat, it will also be a different end product. It completely changes the airflow in the smoking chamber. The airflow moving across the meat horizontally increases the smoke intake. The combustion of a stick burner sucks in more air than any pellet smoker will because of the larger combustion of logs. One of the chemicals in smoke that helps create a smoke ring is called nitric oxide. A stick fire can put 75-200ppm of nitric oxide from the smoke into the meat. While a pellet smoker puts 25-50 ppm of nitric oxide in beef, these measurements were taken when the meat surface reaches 170 degrees, and no more smoke will be taken into the meat. Part of the reason behind this is the type of combustion that happens with each process. A stick burner has full-on combustion and causes the right amount of air movement. A pellet grill has a smoldering fire created by the pellets. These are two different types of combustion that produce different results.

Now I have provided scientific evidence of why they are different. I hope you will do the same to prove that pellet grills are equivalent. Like I've said this entire time. You can make good smoked food with a pellet grill, but not great. They are hands down the best grill you can get for steaks, burgers, and things like that. But can't keep in the smoking department.



First, the science, which is the real meat I was after. I certainly appreciate and understand the airflow piece and kinda figured that would be one of the leading differences. It makes sense that actually burning something to create smoke creates a difference IN THE AIR from smoldering a pellet and using electricity for your heat. Airflow, humidity, and I'm sure several other things will affect the cooking process. However, that doesn't mean that the end products aren't comparable or even distinguishable. I'd like to read the article you got the Nitric Oxide piece from-do you have a link?

I have to heartily disagree with 'pellet smokers in competition'. There are many in use, even in large competitions, and they are winning. A quick Google search bears that out. One guy said the last comp he did had about 30 people and it was 28-2 pellet to stick.

I still don't buy your 'it's gotta be stick to be great' theory. It seems that smoke=flavor. There are ways to add smoke to a pellet grill, and there are ways to change the airflow. You seemed to downplay the other poster's comment about 'knowing your smoker'. I honestly bet if you took BBQ from two of the top pellet and stickmeisters, you wouldn't be able to tell which was which.


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7558604 07/17/19 04:37 PM
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Professor Greg Blonder provided the science. There is a lot more information in that link that is really good to know and not common knowledge. If you look at his section on wood you will see him compare pellets to sticks. One of the issues he mentions is the more efficient combustion of pellet grills actually reduces the smoke flavor due to the amount of particles produced from the smoke. But, it seems kind of hard headed to acknowledge the differences and follow it up saying they will still produce the same product. We can agree to disagree though. I would like to say again you can absolutely make good smoked food on a pellet grill. If your not 100% serious about smoking meat and want to make the best you possibly can than a pellet smoker suits you fine. You can make smoked foods everyone will really enjoy with a pellet cooker. But, if you can properly use a stick smoker I still think you can produce a better product.

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7565150 07/27/19 01:09 AM
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I have Louisiana 680 and smoke brisket all the time. I do get a smoke ring with the right pellets. What is really nice is I can smoke a brisket start to finish without ever lifting the lid. I can smoke for 2 days with a hopper extension. I use a wireless meat thermometer with alarm, enabling me to go start to finish. Still like my stick burner if I don't have more than an 8 hour smoke.

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7565836 07/28/19 01:59 AM
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I did this on my pellet grill ....Camp Chef Lux ....today. Pretty sure that's a smoke ring... I know my cooker well. I smoke with hickory and an Amazn smoke tube. Sometimes I get too much smoke taste. Oh I do not eat BBQ out anymore. https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7565550/saturday-food#Post7565550


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7566398 07/28/19 09:20 PM
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Traeger grill, 3,2,1 method, Hickory pellets, Mustard and Angelos BBQ seasoning overnight prior to the smoke and Head Country Original BBQ sauce for final basting.
Slight tug off the bone, family devoured them. grand boys love Papas “pigsicles”

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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: bobcat1] #7566418 07/28/19 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by bobcat1
I did this on my pellet grill ....Camp Chef Lux ....today. Pretty sure that's a smoke ring... I know my cooker well. I smoke with hickory and an Amazn smoke tube. Sometimes I get too much smoke taste. Oh I do not eat BBQ out anymore. https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7565550/saturday-food#Post7565550


Yea but you can’t cook bolt

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7566454 07/28/19 10:42 PM
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That smoke ring looks nice!

For reference, though, the smoke ring has nothing to do with smoke flavor. You'll get more of a smoke ring if you throw a cold brisket on a pit vs. a warmer one. Some big restaurants use curing salt to emulate a smoke ring. You can read about all this in the links I posted earlier in the thread. Most people don't have a full understanding of the smoke flavor. You're probably not getting too much smoke flavor. You're probably getting an acrid smoke from the smoldering pellets. Plenty of people can't tell the difference in taste because they are used to people using an acrid smoke. It's a pretty common problem on stick smokers as well, even in restaurants. You may want to try and find a way to increase airflow if that issue persists.

Food looks good though guys. Like I keep saying, pellet grills can make some good food considering the lack of work you have to put into it.

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7566463 07/28/19 11:00 PM
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Nothing acrid about my barks on the pellet; coming from someone who’s owned multiple stick burners

Last edited by HoldPoint; 07/28/19 11:10 PM.
Re: Pellet Grill [Re: HoldPoint] #7566486 07/28/19 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Originally Posted by bobcat1
I did this on my pellet grill ....Camp Chef Lux ....today. Pretty sure that's a smoke ring... I know my cooker well. I smoke with hickory and an Amazn smoke tube. Sometimes I get too much smoke taste. Oh I do not eat BBQ out anymore. https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/7565550/saturday-food#Post7565550


Yea but you can’t cook bolt

roflmao


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: HoldPoint] #7566719 07/29/19 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Nothing acrid about my barks on the pellet; coming from someone who’s owned multiple stick burners


Do you ever get "over smoked" meat on your pellet cooker?

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Thisisbeer] #7566811 07/29/19 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Thisisbeer
Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Nothing acrid about my barks on the pellet; coming from someone who’s owned multiple stick burners


Do you ever get "over smoked" meat on your pellet cooker?


no

Re: Pellet Grill [Re: HoldPoint] #7566879 07/29/19 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Originally Posted by Thisisbeer
Originally Posted by HoldPoint
Nothing acrid about my barks on the pellet; coming from someone who’s owned multiple stick burners


Do you ever get "over smoked" meat on your pellet cooker?


no


Fair enough. That was the point I was trying to make earlier. You should never get over smoked meat on a pellet smoker. If you do, it's most likely acrid smoke causing the flavor. I wasn't trying to imply that all pellet smokers produce acrid smoke — actually, quite the opposite. The type of combustion and composition of the pellets don't produce the same compounds as sticks, making it a little easier to dial in. If the smoke isn't right, I will wager it's an airflow issue. I would venture to guess very few pellet smokers produce acrid smoke if they're running correctly. It's much easier to get bad smoke on an indirect smoker. That's where the ease of the pellet smoker shines. Pellet smokers consistently produce clean smoke. My issue is really clean smoke doesn't have all the flavor compounds that a stick burner can provide.

The more I argue the point, the more I feel like we are comparing two things that are very similar, but ultimately not the same. I'm sure some people prefer the taste of the pellet grill over a stick burner. I'll stop arguing that one is better than the other, but without a doubt, they produce a different product. The facts are, the compounds in the smoke are different, the identical compounds are produced in varying amounts which affect flavor, the difference in combustion between pellets and sticks changes the airflow dynamics, and even heat source location and consistency change the end product. These are provable facts. Everyone's taste is different, so eat what you like.

Last edited by Thisisbeer; 07/29/19 02:01 PM.
Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7574480 08/07/19 09:24 PM
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i have 2 green mountain grills and and love them i wont go back


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Re: Pellet Grill [Re: Cool Mo D] #7574973 08/08/19 02:15 PM
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This is some really great information. Thanks

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