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Doe Management #7546279 07/02/19 12:47 AM
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How do you convince a lease manager that MLD is a tool to manage the deer on your lease? We are MLD Does Only but lease manager thinks every gun on the lease should get same number of tags however of the 5 guns only 1 will use his tags. The other 4 don't take does unless it is very convenient to do so. Only 30% of the tags were use last year. Last Jan (2019) I watched a herd of 35-40 does move into a large field to feed. On the way out that evening saw an additional group of 15-18 approximately a mile from the first group. Just can't get the Lease Manager to accept the fact that we have too many does!!!! Thanks







Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546292 07/02/19 01:04 AM
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40 does Wow.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546314 07/02/19 01:47 AM
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You didn't say what kind of buck harvest ya'll typically have or what king of buck sightings you have. Try to make your lease manager understand that the fewer the does generally you will see more bucks- the fewer the does the more ground the buck has to travel to find a receptive doe during rut. Is your lease manager not pushing doe harvest to the other members? Maybe a lease rule of having to shoot a doe before a buck can be harvested or maybe a fine system for members that don't shoot a doe- use the money for lease/camp improvements. If your MLD program is only for managing does (similar to the old LAMPS program) then generally if you don't use all your tags you get less the next year and if that trend continues I guess they could remove you from the program, but I don't know that for a fact.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546320 07/02/19 01:52 AM
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Do you know your state wildlife biologist? Would enlisting him/her to basically scold/threaten the lease manager with revoking the MLD status for not complying with the harvest quota work? What about a rule that members that donít fill their tags by a certain date forfeit their tags to other members that will fill them.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546325 07/02/19 02:00 AM
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To my knowledge their hasn't been any bucks killed in 3 years other than spikes. We have some very decent bucks but you will not see them during the rut. They don't have to move, a hot doe behind every tree.







Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546488 07/02/19 12:10 PM
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"The other 4 don't take does unless it is very convenient to do so."

The problem is the other 4 hunters on the lease not doing their part, not the Lease Manager. He is giving the tags out.

Put the blame where the problem is.

Why not ask for their tags and you shoot the does?

Last edited by fishdfly; 07/02/19 12:11 PM.
Re: Doe Management [Re: fishdfly] #7546498 07/02/19 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
"The other 4 don't take does unless it is very convenient to do so."

The problem is the other 4 hunters on the lease not doing their part, not the Lease Manager. He is giving the tags out.

Put the blame where the problem is.

Why not ask for their tags and you shoot the does?


Our lease manager thinks he can only give 2 MLD tags to each member because that is the number on your license and that is what is stated as the limit in the regs. He knows the others will not be taking any does.







Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546549 07/02/19 01:24 PM
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You cannot force folks to shoot what they do not want to shoot.

Again, why not ask for their tags?

Guess if you are not happy on the lease, time to find another where you are happy.

Re: Doe Management [Re: fishdfly] #7546564 07/02/19 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fishdfly
You cannot force folks to shoot what they do not want to shoot.

Again, why not ask for their tags?

Guess if you are not happy on the lease, time to find another where you are happy.


Fishfly, please read my last post again. Lease manager thinks I can ONLY have 2 tags!!!! I will give you his name and number, maybe you can convince him that his line of thinking is incorrect. As far as having the biologist talking to him, he has already said he didn't need a ******* to tell him how many does we needed to shoot.







Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546587 07/02/19 01:59 PM
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Try to convince them that Hunters for the Hungry is a really good program.

Get a copy of this, and make it required reading for all members of the lease, especially the manager.

https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Guide-Producing-Harvesting-Tailed/dp/0938361090

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546598 07/02/19 02:06 PM
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Get in contact with whoever yals contact with the MLD program is. Seems as though it isn't being used at all as intended.

My experience some just don't want to kill does and wont. You can spoon feet them all the proof in the world and they will nod their head and say ok, but the second you leave them to their own devices they will not shoot a doe. Seems like the deck is stacked against you for that lease I would try contacting the MLD folks, be content with what it is or move on.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546606 07/02/19 02:09 PM
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5 guns x 2 doe tags while seeing 40 does on an evening sit = not enough doe tags

Try to sell the lease manager on buck to doe ratio and the importance of that as it relates to herd management.

We HAMMERED does the first few years we were on MLD. It was amazing how our buck numbers and quality 'appeared' to increase in a few short seasons; they were there the whole time, just never had to move to find a partner to court. We were seeing OLD bucks and bucks we never knew existed during daylight hours.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546623 07/02/19 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DLALLDER
Originally Posted by fishdfly
You cannot force folks to shoot what they do not want to shoot.

Again, why not ask for their tags?

Guess if you are not happy on the lease, time to find another where you are happy.


Fishfly, please read my last post again. Lease manager thinks I can ONLY have 2 tags!!!! I will give you his name and number, maybe you can convince him that his line of thinking is incorrect. As far as having the biologist talking to him, he has already said he didn't need a ******* to tell him how many does we needed to shoot.


He thinks that way because he doesn't know the law and how the program works or that is just his opinion?

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546625 07/02/19 02:23 PM
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Here is what I would do. You or the lease manager probably has a track record of who will and who doesn't shoot does. Give each member one doe tag and say they get another when they have used that one. Do you have a guest policy? if so then invite someone with a kid that has never killed a deer that would like to and let them shoot their first deer- it is amazing to see a kid's face light up when they take their first deer. And then tell your lease manager that it doesn't matter if you only have two doe tags- you don't use your tags anyway and they give out that many tags because they believe that many does need to be taken to get to a balanced herd. Lord almighty, why do you sign up for a management program if you aren't going to follow it!

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546626 07/02/19 02:23 PM
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Have you tried doing a survey or two? How many acres or deer per acre? I wouldnít get hung up on the mld tag quantity as the new way doesnít always provide the right number of tags for your place. Start with the survey and collect deer sighting samples when you go out. Try to get your lease mates to do the same.
Hard proof still may not change his mind as some just donít believe in doe management, so Iíd start working on the individual hunters and provide options like taking the deer off their hands if they donít want it and donate the meat.


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Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546647 07/02/19 02:55 PM
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Sounds to me like your lease mgr does not understand MLD program vs TPWD license tags. Do you have access to landowner or is LO absent and totally turned everything over to lease mgr? Is your lease mgr absolute authority or do lease members have equal say/vote. I feel your pain but if no way to change lease mgr and members in-grained ways and not able to get kids out their to shoot the does, and you want to hunt better quality bucks, then I'd be investing more time in new lease hunting (which is very time consuming and tough to find 'your' right fit).

Talk with biologist and game warden to find out which processors and organizations accept donated deer. If you are seeing that many does, get with GW and Biologist and they may give you additional doe tags because sounds like neighboring properties are doing their part either.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546725 07/02/19 04:42 PM
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My landowner, and it is not and MLD lease, requires a doe be harvested with every buck taken. If you shoot a buck a second one can't be harvested until a doe is taken. We often shoot the first doe we see in October just to get ahead for the November rut.



By grace alone; through faith alone; in Christ alone!
Re: Doe Management [Re: FamousAmos] #7546816 07/02/19 06:33 PM
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I don't have an answer to your issue besides what others have said, but... It seems you have a very strange situation that's hard for me to even comprehend. You see 20 and 40 does at a time and NO bucks have been killed in 3 years. I would just be real curious for you to elaborate on number of acres and number hunters and area of state etc. Very unusual. Good luck, sounds like you need it.


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Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546831 07/02/19 06:54 PM
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This post clearly outlines what's wrong with a lot of leases. There is a chain of command....as a lease member your concerns go to the lease boss and if you're not satisfied with the actions the lease boss takes you either need to discuss with other members then have another meeting with the lease boss OR move to another lease. There is ZERO reason a lease member (that is not the lease boss) needs to be talking to the land owner. The hierarchy is put in place for a reason...it's amazing how enlightened some folks are bang 99.9% of land owners don't want deer lease drama and the less they know about the lease drama the better the lease will go.

Two things I'll never do....go to a land owner if I ain't the lease boss AND go to a government agency because I don't agree with land management on a lease. Those seem to me to be the two easiest ways to lose your lease and hunting buddies. This post is the main reason why I have not been a fan of the big leases because there is always drama and I'm like the 99.9% of land owners...I HATE drama and want to get away from the metromess and enjoy the outdoors without some jackass ruining it for me.

To the OP...talk to the guys who won't kill does and either help them by killing their does or help them see the importance in them killing them.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: Doe Management [Re: Judd] #7546848 07/02/19 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
This post clearly outlines what's wrong with a lot of leases. There is a chain of command....as a lease member your concerns go to the lease boss and if you're not satisfied with the actions the lease boss takes you either need to discuss with other members then have another meeting with the lease boss OR move to another lease. There is ZERO reason a lease member (that is not the lease boss) needs to be talking to the land owner. The hierarchy is put in place for a reason...it's amazing how enlightened some folks are bang 99.9% of land owners don't want deer lease drama and the less they know about the lease drama the better the lease will go.

Two things I'll never do....go to a land owner if I ain't the lease boss AND go to a government agency because I don't agree with land management on a lease. Those seem to me to be the two easiest ways to lose your lease and hunting buddies. This post is the main reason why I have not been a fan of the big leases because there is always drama and I'm like the 99.9% of land owners...I HATE drama and want to get away from the metromess and enjoy the outdoors without some jackass ruining it for me.

To the OP...talk to the guys who won't kill does and either help them by killing their does or help them see the importance in them killing them.

I for one rather enjoy being able to go straight to the horses mouth. Probably why I have never been on a lease where I didn't personally deal with the property owner..... hmmm ive never been on a bad lease either.

Lease bosses sound a lot like politics... got no lost love for politicians either.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Doe Management [Re: Judd] #7546879 07/02/19 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
This post clearly outlines what's wrong with a lot of leases. There is a chain of command....as a lease member your concerns go to the lease boss and if you're not satisfied with the actions the lease boss takes you either need to discuss with other members then have another meeting with the lease boss OR move to another lease. There is ZERO reason a lease member (that is not the lease boss) needs to be talking to the land owner. The hierarchy is put in place for a reason...it's amazing how enlightened some folks are bang 99.9% of land owners don't want deer lease drama and the less they know about the lease drama the better the lease will go.

Two things I'll never do....go to a land owner if I ain't the lease boss AND go to a government agency because I don't agree with land management on a lease. Those seem to me to be the two easiest ways to lose your lease and hunting buddies. This post is the main reason why I have not been a fan of the big leases because there is always drama and I'm like the 99.9% of land owners...I HATE drama and want to get away from the metromess and enjoy the outdoors without some jackass ruining it for me.

To the OP...talk to the guys who won't kill does and either help them by killing their does or help them see the importance in them killing them.


100% agree with this entire statement. Landowners don't want to hear the [censored] and lease bosses are in place for a reason.

Lease bosses make rules based on land owners rules (on good deer leases)



Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546913 07/02/19 08:03 PM
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I hunted on a lease that was 8,500 acres with five other guys. We had around 100 doe tags. I killed 68 of them my first year on the lease. The other guys brought friends, kids, etc. to shoot the other 32 while they trophy hunted. The other five said "man, you're having a blast killing all these does aren't you?" I'm pretty sure you can figure out my reply mad

The next season, I killed 18 does and a couple culls in a few hunts. After a few more hunts when I'd come in empty handed one of the other lease members said "how come you haven't killed more does this season?"

Too which I replied "I'm tired of doing all the work while you guys sit on your arses and hunt trophies or the biggest culls you can find. When you guys get to 18 does, I'll shoot a few more. Then y'all shoot a few more and so on." They never came close to filling those doe tags so I got off the lease. It was obvious to me we would never reach our management goals with that group. Could have been a heckuva lease.

DLADDER, I feel your pain. Your TPWD biologist/agent needs to educate your landowner/lease boss/and lease mates.

Re: Doe Management [Re: DLALLDER] #7546927 07/02/19 08:31 PM
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the first year I was on our east TX lease was the first year they went to MLD3 ... the lease agreement clearly stated each hunter was strongly encouraged to shoot their allotment of does prior to taking their trophy/cull. That year, each member was given 2 doe tags and 1 buck tag ... with the verbal statement at the hunters meeting before opening morning where we got our tags that when you fill those, there might be a few more to go around. Opening weekend, I dropped a doe on Sat. afternoon and another on Sunday morning within 5 feet of each other. When I got back to the skinning station, the lease boss walks up to me and said "you ain't scared to pull the trigger, are you?" ... to which my reply was nope, not when that's what the contract states I should do before I start hunting antlers. I got a lot of eek2 looks from the other hunters standing around ... The discussion came up around a camp fire within the next couple of weeks about game management, to which I said well, the biologist reviewed the ranches paperwork and gave guidance on what needs to happen, that's what we are supposed to be doing to improve our hunting for not just this year, but for years to come, it's a long term plan, not one season.


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Re: Doe Management [Re: Judd] #7546993 07/02/19 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Judd
This post clearly outlines what's wrong with a lot of leases. There is a chain of command....as a lease member your concerns go to the lease boss and if you're not satisfied with the actions the lease boss takes you either need to discuss with other members then have another meeting with the lease boss OR move to another lease. There is ZERO reason a lease member (that is not the lease boss) needs to be talking to the land owner. The hierarchy is put in place for a reason...it's amazing how enlightened some folks are bang 99.9% of land owners don't want deer lease drama and the less they know about the lease drama the better the lease will go.

Two things I'll never do....go to a land owner if I ain't the lease boss AND go to a government agency because I don't agree with land management on a lease. Those seem to me to be the two easiest ways to lose your lease and hunting buddies. This post is the main reason why I have not been a fan of the big leases because there is always drama and I'm like the 99.9% of land owners...I HATE drama and want to get away from the metromess and enjoy the outdoors without some jackass ruining it for me.

To the OP...talk to the guys who won't kill does and either help them by killing their does or help them see the importance in them killing them.


EXACTLY!

Re: Doe Management [Re: redchevy] #7547008 07/02/19 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by Judd
This post clearly outlines what's wrong with a lot of leases. There is a chain of command....


Lease bosses sound a lot like politics... got no lost love for politicians either.


Amen. For the love of Pete, this ain't the Army.

My last lease the LO liked me. 'Lease "boss" had control and need-for-respect issues. I knew how to report water leaks, coyotes howling, yada yada. I never went around "the boss" and I'd never go to a gub'ment agency, but come on.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
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