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Gambling in the Military
#7544526
06/29/19 03:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,149
Homer Jay
OP
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OP
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Was/is there a prohibition, spoken or unspoken, about officers and noncoms gambling with enlisted men? I was watching a film set in WW2 and an officer was reprimanded because he was gambling with the enlisted men as a way to build rapport.
"Like a slice of fried gold!"
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544542
06/29/19 03:52 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155
kry226
The General
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The General
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I don't know of anything specific without doing some research, but it could always be wrapped into conduct unbecoming or fraternization.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544565
06/29/19 04:27 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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I am pretty sure it was in the "book" that it was not supposed tp be done. As to today, I do not know, but in my day it wasn't supposed to happen.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544582
06/29/19 08:03 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,618
Sailor
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Wasan't allowed, aboard ship when I was in...….
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544591
06/29/19 10:28 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,033
missingAK
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I'm assuming you're talking about "Buck" Compton in "Band of Brothers". I love that series.
Definitely not allowed. Even if not, fraternization of this kind is not a good idea for some of the same reasons Winters points out in the series.
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened." Winston Churchill
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544595
06/29/19 10:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155
kry226
The General
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The General
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We're pretty close. From the 2019 Manual for Courts Martial (MCM). Both of the below articles are kind of "catch-alls" which allows the prosecution of a member without a specific charge as outlined in the MCM. Article 134 has many paragraphs and below is just a single paragraph I snipped. What I highlighted below was very interesting to learn. 102. Article 134—(Gambling with subordinate)
a. Text of statute. See paragraph 91.
b. Elements. (1) That the accused gambled with a certain Servicemember; (2) That the accused was then a noncommissioned or petty officer; (3) That the Servicemember was not then a noncommissioned or petty officer and was subordinate to the accused; (4) That the accused knew that the Servicememberwas not then a noncommissioned or petty officer and was subordinate to the accused; and (5) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was either: (i) to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces; (ii) was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces; or (iii) to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces and of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
c. Explanation. This offense can only be committed by a noncommissioned or petty officer gambling with an enlisted person of less than noncommissioned or petty officer rank. Gambling by an officer with an enlisted person may be a violation of Article 133. See also paragraph 90.
d. Maximum punishment. Confinement for 3 months and forfeiture of two-thirds pay per month for 3months. 90. Article 133 (10 U.S.C. 933)—Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman
a. Text of statute.Any commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman who is convicted of conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.
b. Elements. (1) That the accused did or omitted to do a certain act; (2) That, under the circumstances, the act or omission constituted conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
c. Explanation. (1)Gentleman. As used in this article, gentleman includes both male and female commissioned officers, cadets, and midshipmen. The term “gentleman” connotes failings in an officer’s personal character, regardless of gender.
(2)Nature of offense. Conduct violative of this article is action or behavior in an official capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the person as an officer, seriously compromises the officer’s character as a gentleman, or action or behavior in an unofficial or private capacity which, in dishonoring or disgracing the officer personally, seriously compromises the person’s standing as an officer. There are certain moral attributes common to the ideal officer and the perfect gentleman, a lack of which is indicated by acts of dishonesty, unfair dealing, indecency, in decorum, lawlessness, injustice, or cruelty. Not everyone is or can be expected to meet unrealistically high moral standards, but there is a limit of tolerance based on customs of the Service and military necessity below which the personal standards of an officer, cadet, or midshipman cannot fall without seriously compromising the person’s standing as an officer, cadet, or midshipman or the person’s character as a gentleman. This article prohibits conduct by a commissioned officer, cadet, or midshipman which, taking all the circumstances into consideration, is thus compromising. This article includes acts made punishable by any other article, provided these acts amount to conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Thus, a commissioned officer who steals property violates both this article and Article 121. Whenever the offense charged is the same as a specific offense set forth in this Manual, the elements of proof are the same as those set forth in the paragraph which treats that specific offense, with the additional requirement that the act or omission constitutes conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.
(3)Examples of offenses. Instances of violation of this article include knowingly making a false official statement; dishonorable failure to pay a debt; cheating on an exam; opening and reading a letter of another without authority; using insulting or defamatory language to another officer in that officer’s presence or about that officer to other military persons; being drunk and disorderly in a public place; public association with known prostitutes; committing or attempting to commit a crime involving moral turpitude; and failing without good cause to support the officer’s family.
d. Maximum punishment. Dismissal, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for a period not in excess of that authorized for the most analogous offense for which a punishment is prescribed in this Manual, or, if none is prescribed, for 1 year.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7544791
06/29/19 05:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,859
hopalong
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the nato base in naples had slots, had them in the O club, noncom club and enlisted club, the main hall (huge, concerts etc.) had a casino that anyone could go in.
sicily had slots in the clubs and allowed cards on nav 2 (nato part of our 2 base set up).
lake fork FISHERMANS COVE MARINA - 903 474 7479 reservations
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: missingAK]
#7545147
06/30/19 05:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 8,149
Homer Jay
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I'm assuming you're talking about "Buck" Compton in "Band of Brothers". I love that series. Yep. That exact scene. Love it too. There is only one Toccoa man still alive, BTW.
"Like a slice of fried gold!"
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7545378
06/30/19 06:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,248
DeRico
Mobius 1
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Mobius 1
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Posts: 2,248 |
Google the UCMJ, it’s there. Not allowed.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7545392
06/30/19 06:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,000
Barcelona Rick
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Many moons ago while serving in a USN Destroyer I was duty Master at Arms. We were at sea and it was after 2200 hours which meant lights out. The Electrician's Shop always had a craps game going on after lights out. For all of you non-anchor clankers most interior spaces have red lights Illuminated between 2200 and 0600 hours. I eased back to the shop, undogged the door and flung it open and sure enough a pretty good size gang was shooting craps. A booming voice calls me by name and tells me to turn around, close and dog the door. That voice was our CO...a full Commander (05)...needless to say I followed orders...he had been an enlisted Sailor for 4 years, got out went to college and became a Commissioned Officer. Best CO I ever served under.
rick
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Barcelona Rick]
#7545399
06/30/19 06:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,526
SnakeWrangler
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Many moons ago while serving in a USN Destroyer I was duty Master at Arms. We were at sea and it was after 2200 hours which meant lights out. The Electrician's Shop always had a craps game going on after lights out. For all of you non-anchor clankers most interior spaces have red lights Illuminated between 2200 and 0600 hours. I eased back to the shop, undogged the door and flung it open and sure enough a pretty good size gang was shooting craps. A booming voice calls me by name and tells me to turn around, close and dog the door. That voice was our CO...a full Commander (05)...needless to say I followed orders...he had been an enlisted Sailor for 4 years, got out went to college and became a Commissioned Officer. Best CO I ever served under.
rick How much did you win/loose that night?
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7545408
06/30/19 07:00 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,831
The Dude Abides
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Under the UCMJ it is prohibited as previously stated. However it's only enforced when convenient for the Chain of Command.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Barcelona Rick]
#7545467
06/30/19 09:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155 |
Many moons ago while serving in a USN Destroyer I was duty Master at Arms. We were at sea and it was after 2200 hours which meant lights out. The Electrician's Shop always had a craps game going on after lights out. For all of you non-anchor clankers most interior spaces have red lights Illuminated between 2200 and 0600 hours. I eased back to the shop, undogged the door and flung it open and sure enough a pretty good size gang was shooting craps. A booming voice calls me by name and tells me to turn around, close and dog the door. That voice was our CO...a full Commander (05)...needless to say I followed orders...he had been an enlisted Sailor for 4 years, got out went to college and became a Commissioned Officer. Best CO I ever served under.
rick I was enlisted for just over six and made E6 at five. Now an O5. I am a blessed man.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Barcelona Rick]
#7545478
06/30/19 10:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 22,630
Cast
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Many moons ago while serving in a USN Destroyer I was duty Master at Arms. We were at sea and it was after 2200 hours which meant lights out. The Electrician's Shop always had a craps game going on after lights out. For all of you non-anchor clankers most interior spaces have red lights Illuminated between 2200 and 0600 hours. I eased back to the shop, undogged the door and flung it open and sure enough a pretty good size gang was shooting craps. A booming voice calls me by name and tells me to turn around, close and dog the door. That voice was our CO...a full Commander (05)...needless to say I followed orders...he had been an enlisted Sailor for 4 years, got out went to college and became a Commissioned Officer. Best CO I ever served under.
rick That is kinda funny. I worked in the Aviation Electrical shop. But we were ashore. We did not turn off the lights for our games.
Cast I have a short attention spa
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: kry226]
#7545492
06/30/19 11:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
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I don't know of anything specific without doing some research, but it could always be wrapped into conduct unbecoming or fraternization. I’m going to go with fraternization. I don’t remember any specific prohibition on gambling in 2000-2004 when I was in. I do wonder about gambling actually taking place in WW2 in a line unit. Like WW2, we didn’t have bases to operate out of so I wonder if they carried a lot of cash in the first place.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#7545496
06/30/19 11:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,000
Barcelona Rick
Veteran Tracker
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Many moons ago while serving in a USN Destroyer I was duty Master at Arms. We were at sea and it was after 2200 hours which meant lights out. The Electrician's Shop always had a craps game going on after lights out. For all of you non-anchor clankers most interior spaces have red lights Illuminated between 2200 and 0600 hours. I eased back to the shop, undogged the door and flung it open and sure enough a pretty good size gang was shooting craps. A booming voice calls me by name and tells me to turn around, close and dog the door. That voice was our CO...a full Commander (05)...needless to say I followed orders...he had been an enlisted Sailor for 4 years, got out went to college and became a Commissioned Officer. Best CO I ever served under.
rick How much did you win/loose that night? Enough for a heck of a time in Tangiers ! rick
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: tenyearsgone]
#7545500
06/30/19 11:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,155 |
I don't know of anything specific without doing some research, but it could always be wrapped into conduct unbecoming or fraternization. I’m going to go with fraternization. I don’t remember any specific prohibition on gambling in 2000-2004 when I was in. I do wonder about gambling actually taking place in WW2 in a line unit. Like WW2, we didn’t have bases to operate out of so I wonder if they carried a lot of cash in the first place. Every .mil club in Germany has slot machines. When I was a young troop back in 97, I got put on detail helping some MWR guy collect the money from the slots. BTW, $14k worth of quarters will fit in a .50 cal ammo can. There's nothing about gambling that's a no-no. It's the advantageous position over the subordinate rank.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: kry226]
#7545503
06/30/19 11:27 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,383
nsmike
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I don't know of anything specific without doing some research, but it could always be wrapped into conduct unbecoming or fraternization. I’m going to go with fraternization. I don’t remember any specific prohibition on gambling in 2000-2004 when I was in. I do wonder about gambling actually taking place in WW2 in a line unit. Like WW2, we didn’t have bases to operate out of so I wonder if they carried a lot of cash in the first place. Every .mil club in Germany has slot machines. When I was a young troop back in 97, I got put on detail helping some MWR guy collect the money from the slots. BTW, $14k worth of quarters will fit in a .50 cal ammo can. There's nothing about gambling that's a no-no. It's the advantageous position over the subordinate rank. It's analogous to the prohibition on officers or NCO's borrowing money from enlisted.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: kry226]
#7545512
06/30/19 11:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796
dogcatcher
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Every .mil club in Germany has slot machines. When I was a young troop back in 97, I got put on detail helping some MWR guy collect the money from the slots. BTW, $14k worth of quarters will fit in a .50 cal ammo can. There's nothing about gambling that's a no-no. It's the advantageous position over the subordinate rank. Both the O clubs and the NCO clubs had slot machines back in the 1950's and 60's in Europe and some stateside locations. .I can remember playing poker in the NCO clubs in Japan at Camp Drake and Ben Hoa in Vietnam. Used to be a stag bar at the Dyess AFB NCO club that slots and sometimes a poker game or 2. As to the Line Units of WWII, their frontline duty was not like the times in Vietnam or later conflicts. Search about actual combat time that soldiers spent in combat during WWII. Also remember it takes 9 support people for each combat soldier.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7545568
07/01/19 02:00 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,353
bigbob_ftw
Big Sprocket Bob
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Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 33,353 |
We had slots in panama in 83 at the NCO club.
Ultra MAGA '24.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7546329
07/02/19 02:03 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
Veteran Tracker
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Posts: 2,424 |
Every .mil club in Germany has slot machines. When I was a young troop back in 97, I got put on detail helping some MWR guy collect the money from the slots. BTW, $14k worth of quarters will fit in a .50 cal ammo can. There's nothing about gambling that's a no-no. It's the advantageous position over the subordinate rank. Both the O clubs and the NCO clubs had slot machines back in the 1950's and 60's in Europe and some stateside locations. .I can remember playing poker in the NCO clubs in Japan at Camp Drake and Ben Hoa in Vietnam. Used to be a stag bar at the Dyess AFB NCO club that slots and sometimes a poker game or 2. As to the Line Units of WWII, their frontline duty was not like the times in Vietnam or later conflicts. Search about actual combat time that soldiers spent in combat during WWII. Also remember it takes 9 support people for each combat soldier. Was it a lot or little? My actual combat experience varied in Iraq and was less than expected in Afghanistan. It wasn’t everyday and didn’t last long. I participated in more during the first days, and it lessened after a couple weeks to just random burst fired down the road at us. Afghanistan was more them shooting rockets and mortars than shooting back. I only got in close contact once or twice. My father’s experience as a Recon Marine in Vietnam May be different than yours since his goal was not to be seen. He said he engaged only a couple times of note the whole time. He’s the only one I “compared notes” with though.
Last edited by tenyearsgone; 07/02/19 02:05 AM.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: bigbob_ftw]
#7546332
07/02/19 02:07 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,424
tenyearsgone
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We had slots in panama in 83 at the NCO club. Confession time. In all my glorious 4 short years I never went to an E club. I feel like I failed as a Marine.
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Re: Gambling in the Military
[Re: Homer Jay]
#7546624
07/02/19 02:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 122
Jamoke
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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I spent 2 years in the Jungle Mountains of Honduras in the early 80's, lived in tents with scorpions above us every morning. showered in tents with snakes in the pallets on the floors, Chow was powdered eggs every morning and 2 MREs for the rest of the day. We gambled, for food, money, didn't really have anyplace to spend much. The exchange rate was outrageous. 7 lempiras (sp?) For one us dollar. Fresh pineapple or sugar cane was 25 cents. Rum varied in price from 1- 7 lempiras. We knew gambling was illegal, so we didn't shove it down anyone's throat. Kept is out of site of the NCO's. They stayed in separate tents anyway. I sent home so many cases of MRE's at least 20 that I had won. Never cashed any Army pay the entire time lived off of gamboling winnings and occasionally getting the SGM hand rolled cigars from the locals, a trash bag of 100 cigars was 10 dollars, he gladly bought them for 20, don't remember ever seeing him without one in his mouth. I'm sure he sent thousands home. There has always been gamboling in the military. As long as you keep it to equal ranks and it doesn't get out of control no much is ever done about it.
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