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Wildlife management philosophy #7542942 06/26/19 10:48 PM
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Itís always interesting to read post or have discussions about ones philosophy on wildlife management.
It seems to me that rarely is there agreement, and that it is easy to contradict what is being done.

Example: shoot every coyote that you see, they are fawn killers.
Contradiction: the female coyote will have larger litters when the population is thinned therefore increasing the coyote population.

Shoot roadrunners they eat all the baby quail.
Donít shoot roadrunners they eat snakes, and they are cool to have around


Can yíall think of anymore management practices and/or contradictions to that practice?


I may be getting old and soft. Many of these ďphilosophiesĒ sound like reasons to go out and shoot stuff. This is fine, but may be a reason why there is so much contradiction.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7542949 06/26/19 10:54 PM
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Shoot all spikes: don't shoot spikes

Shoot does before the rut: shoot doe after the rut

Shoot all predators: shoot no predators

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7542968 06/26/19 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shightower
Itís always interesting to read post or have discussions about ones philosophy on wildlife management.
It seems to me that rarely is there agreement, and that it is easy to contradict what is being done.

Example: shoot every coyote that you see, they are fawn killers.
Contradiction: the female coyote will have larger litters when the population is thinned therefore increasing the coyote population.

Shoot roadrunners they eat all the baby quail.
Donít shoot roadrunners they eat snakes, and they are cool to have around


Can yíall think of anymore management practices and/or contradictions to that practice?


I may be getting old and soft. Many of these ďphilosophiesĒ sound like reasons to go out and shoot stuff. This is fine, but may be a reason why there is so much contradiction.



I believe in killing every varmint seen. They Canít have larger litters if theyíre dead. Road runners and hawks are cool to watch and someone somewhere decided it should be against the law to kill them, no matter what they do to the quail population. Itís a great management practice not to kill them with a 22-250.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7542969 06/26/19 11:17 PM
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I believe a lot of times, like the when to shoot does or spikes, both sides of the road will end up in the exact same spot

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: scalebuster] #7542977 06/26/19 11:23 PM
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Elimination to extinction would be a management practice, I guess.
But then we would get into the ď how does this varmint contribute to the environment ď question.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7542979 06/26/19 11:24 PM
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The best time to kill a doe is when you have time to process her.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543440 06/27/19 02:53 PM
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You canít shoot doeís! Thatís the baby makers.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543441 06/27/19 02:56 PM
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Quail are a good example. Lots of research was done to figure out why the population was so low.
It was fire ants, mites, feral hogs, 7 year cycle, etc.

Turned out it was water!

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543446 06/27/19 03:00 PM
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One of the new great debates is CWD.

Lots of debate on the cause. I hear it due to over population issues or high fence operations bringing in sick animals.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543458 06/27/19 03:17 PM
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Itís seldom the philosophy thatís flawed, itís the implementation and actual practice thatís flawed

Coyotes are a perfect example, you can very well limit coyote population to extremely low levels, but you arent going to accomplish it by only shooting them when you see them.

Spike harvest is similar, no point in occasional spike harvest. Your are either all in and willing to sacrifice tags to accomplish the repeated year after year after year culling or. It.


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543459 06/27/19 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by shightower
One of the new great debates is CWD.

Lots of debate on the cause. I hear it due to over population issues or high fence operations bringing in sick animals.




CWD walked across the border in the most sparsely populated counties in TX, guess both those theories are semi wrong


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7543467 06/27/19 03:29 PM
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Agree Bobo. The philosophy isnít the problem itís the implementation of the philosophy.

It does become interesting though when there are two different philosophies being implemented.

This pretty much sums up what I find interesting. When there are two contrasting philosophies and conflict. Disagreement occurs.

I think many practices are situational, and specific to location. People hear something and try to implement on their place.

Ex. Whatís works in east Texas may not work in West Texas.

So East Texas boys donít bring your East Texas AR stuff out here.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7543473 06/27/19 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by shightower
One of the new great debates is CWD.

Lots of debate on the cause. I hear it due to over population issues or high fence operations bringing in sick animals.




CWD walked across the border in the most sparsely populated counties in TX, guess both those theories are semi wrong


So your saying overpopulation will not result in migration?

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543479 06/27/19 03:48 PM
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I find it interesting that one will say that coyotes must be killed as they kill fawns then cull a truck load of deer due to over population in the given area. Also, please explain to me the correct way/philosophy to manage wild hog populations, they seem to have overrun our place in East Texas.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543483 06/27/19 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by shightower
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by shightower
One of the new great debates is CWD.

Lots of debate on the cause. I hear it due to over population issues or high fence operations bringing in sick animals.




CWD walked across the border in the most sparsely populated counties in TX, guess both those theories are semi wrong


So your saying overpopulation will not result in migration?


Not a herd in Texas that has a specific migration. There are herds/deer with larger home areas that overlap.

Dispersal isnít migration


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: garyrapp55] #7543486 06/27/19 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by garyrapp55
I find it interesting that one will say that coyotes must be killed as they kill fawns then cull a truck load of deer due to over population in the given area. Also, please explain to me the correct way/philosophy to manage wild hog populations, they seem to have overrun our place in East Texas.


More of ability to be biased on culling. Yotes/wolves etc arenít biased they are opportunistic


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543490 06/27/19 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shightower
Agree Bobo. The philosophy isnít the problem itís the implementation of the philosophy.

It does become interesting though when there are two different philosophies being implemented.

This pretty much sums up what I find interesting. When there are two contrasting philosophies and conflict. Disagreement occurs.

I think many practices are situational, and specific to location. People hear something and try to implement on their place.

Ex. Whatís works in east Texas may not work in West Texas.

So East Texas boys donít bring your East Texas AR stuff out here.


Very few ranches/hunters have the means to specifically influence genetics via a gun. Probably less then 5% if that

Culling a two year old so you donít see it for the next 6 years is a change perception not significantly changes genetics.


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543492 06/27/19 04:03 PM
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Good stuff garyrapp! Iím with you. I will only speak for myself and say I shoot coyotes because I like to. I had a coyote eat a dog of mine, so I shoot them on sight. They come in to a call and itís year round fun. As far as a management practice to increase the population of deer, Iím out on that.

Hogs are a good one also. Iím out on the poison. I think there are to many risk. I personally think trapping and year around hunting will help LOCALLY. I freakin love shooting hogs! If I farmed or had large acreage I would hire a helicopter and put the hurt on them.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543495 06/27/19 04:05 PM
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People preach killing coyotes/predators to save the fawns. We have an incredible coyote population, but we are poor coyote killers. Set traps but don't typically get to run them more than a day or two in a row, have tired calling some but not very successful and don't have much time to devote to it. We see coyotes all the time just blip across a sendero, constantly on the cameras and fresh scat and tracks everywhere all the time. Put a 200 pound hog on the gut pile and in the morning there is nothing but a little hair and some torn up dirt left.

We also have a strong fawn crop, see twins every year, good recruitment, kill a bunch of does for our acreage every year and the population keeps on keeping on. We have no livestock, lots of native brush and thick tall grass. Great fawning cover.


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7543500 06/27/19 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
I find it interesting that one will say that coyotes must be killed as they kill fawns then cull a truck load of deer due to over population in the given area. Also, please explain to me the correct way/philosophy to manage wild hog populations, they seem to have overrun our place in East Texas.


More of ability to be biased on culling. Yotes/wolves etc arenít biased they are opportunistic


Are we really being biased? I think that we think we are but in reality we can not see the genotype of the animals that we are harvesting. In reality we are guessing.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543501 06/27/19 04:12 PM
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Depends on the area. Where I go on an anterless hunt every January, we kill as many does as we feel like processing. But, there are an overabundance of deer there. Where my place is, the deer population is much lower per section of land. I never kill does. And, in 6 years, I haven't seen a buck big enough for me to justify killing it. They won't get big, if they get killed when they're small.

No matter where I hunt, I shoot every coyote and hog I see, unless the land owner says otherwise. And on my land, I add armadillos to the list.


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Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7543507 06/27/19 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by shightower
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by shightower
One of the new great debates is CWD.

Lots of debate on the cause. I hear it due to over population issues or high fence operations bringing in sick animals.




CWD walked across the border in the most sparsely populated counties in TX, guess both those theories are semi wrong



So your saying overpopulation will not result in migration?


Not a herd in Texas that has a specific migration. There are herds/deer with larger home areas that overlap.

Dispersal isnít migration


I was thinking more about about Muledeer in New Mexico , Colorado where there is CWD.. Not so much a young buck looking for his own territory.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: FiremanJG] #7543508 06/27/19 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG


No matter where I hunt, I shoot every coyote and hog I see, unless the land owner says otherwise.


Preach it, brother.
up

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: FiremanJG] #7543561 06/27/19 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Depends on the area. Where I go on an anterless hunt every January, we kill as many does as we feel like processing. But, there are an overabundance of deer there. Where my place is, the deer population is much lower per section of land. I never kill does. And, in 6 years, I haven't seen a buck big enough for me to justify killing it. They won't get big, if they get killed when they're small.

No matter where I hunt, I shoot every coyote and hog I see, unless the land owner says otherwise. And on my land, I add armadillos to the list.



Agree 100% on all counts. I also kill every rattlesnake I see. Fact is by conventional hunting methods we will never make much of a difference in the coyote, hog, or rattler population, especially hogs. I see no way to control the hog population short of poison.

Re: Wildlife management philosophy [Re: shightower] #7543568 06/27/19 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by shightower
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
I find it interesting that one will say that coyotes must be killed as they kill fawns then cull a truck load of deer due to over population in the given area. Also, please explain to me the correct way/philosophy to manage wild hog populations, they seem to have overrun our place in East Texas.


More of ability to be biased on culling. Yotes/wolves etc arenít biased they are opportunistic


Are we really being biased? I think that we think we are but in reality we can not see the genotype of the animals that we are harvesting. In reality we are guessing.


Culling does not mean genetic influence for most management plans, it simply mean future resource allocation. Basically determining what goes on to live another year to utilize the landscape , for whatever reason(age,sex, score, config, etc). In reality it is a guess but an educated guess built off percentages that allow for discretion.

Yote/wolf/dog kills strictly off opportunity. If hunters did that, be a short season


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