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Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 #7542368 06/26/19 05:23 AM
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Looking for some feedback on some rifle configurations. Considering a couple different chassis in different calibers. Usage would be for South Texas whitetail most of the time, but want something that can do mule deer and Elk at some time in the future. All my other hunting rifles have been designated to my boys, so I'm looking for something I can use.

Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed 22"
Remington Mountain 22"
Remington Model Seven HS Precision 20"
Tikka T3x 22" (already have this in 7mm-08)

Chassis Thoughts -
I'll start off with the X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed... I just like it. Probably good marketing on their part but I like the barrel coatings, the stock, threaded barrel / muzzle brake and potential for accuracy. I also wouldn't mind owning a Browning. The Tikka I already have belongs to one of my boys so I'm ready to try something else even though I really like it. The newer Remington's are not super high on my list... not that I don't like them as I already have several older SS ones. Just not a fan of the quality of their new stuff. Also, I don't want anything longer than a 22" barrel because most of the blinds we hunt out of are small and there's not a lot of room to move around inside especially when I have one of my younger boys.

Calibers
I have 7mm-08 & 270 in hunting rifles already but I'd really like a 308 as I have plenty of NATO (Lake City) 7.62 ammo to play with and just like the availability of the cartridge. I could also stick with the 270 (least common ammo that I have). Or be consistent with the 7mm-08 for which I have years worth of Hornady SST ammo (that will hopefully work well in the rifles).

So... looking for feedback on a good combination that will be a good North America hunting setup. If I had to do something today, I'd lean towards the Hells Canyon in a 308.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542406 06/26/19 11:51 AM
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I have handled all the models your considering at the NRA show and own the Tikka. IMO it comes down to fit and bolt preference. Rifle Gear in Plano will have all these.......can't go wrong with any of the choices and every gun owner should have at least 1 308....IMO


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542440 06/26/19 12:57 PM
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I’ve owned several older Model 7s and they were good hunting rifles but I would not consider anything of newer production by Remington. The Hells Canyon interest me since it steps into a new market for Browning. I’d like to check one out and see how they did. My choice has been and will continue to be the boring Tikka. Other than the lack of a 3 position safety the Tikka is the best on the market for trigger, bolt, and accuracy. Claiming the best for any of those three is an accomplishment, they have all three.

Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542476 06/26/19 01:47 PM
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Since you mentioned Mule Deer and Elk, why not step up into a mag bolt face long action. Everyone needs at least one. .300 Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag would be a nice addition to your collection.


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: wp75169] #7542484 06/26/19 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
I’ve owned several older Model 7s and they were good hunting rifles but I would not consider anything of newer production by Remington. The Hells Canyon interest me since it steps into a new market for Browning. I’d like to check one out and see how they did. My choice has been and will continue to be the boring Tikka. Other than the lack of a 3 position safety the Tikka is the best on the market for trigger, bolt, and accuracy. Claiming the best for any of those three is an accomplishment, they have all three.



So interesting, when I was searching for a new elk gun, I handled Tikka T3 and browning hells canyon. I found the action on the tikka sloppy and the stock cheap feeling, and it wasn't just one gun it was multiple. The Hells canyon felt better to me.

I know I don't know what I don't know, but it is interesting to hear someone say tikka is best in market for bolt, trigger, and accuracy, when everything in my body tells me this gun can't perform. I know they do, as evidenced by their following

Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: Texas buckeye] #7542488 06/26/19 02:02 PM
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I bet my lunch money the bolt and raceway was dry. Apply some Mobile-1 0W-20 and it runs smooth as silk. When that oil collects dirt, it still runs.


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542497 06/26/19 02:12 PM
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Well buckeye it’s simply my opinion so that doesn’t make it true except at my house. I can say the opinion is based on experience and ownership and thousands of rounds down range and in animals. The Tikka is certainly nothing to look at and does indeed feel cheap with the synthetic Lite stock. The difference shows up when you sit down behind it to drive.

Bolt operation I guess is also 100% opinion. I did have a 30-40 Krag that I thought was better so there’s that.

Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542501 06/26/19 02:16 PM
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I do like the hells canyon speed. that is a neat rifle any which way you cut it.


I also like the 700 mountain and the Model 7.

I find the Tikkas cheap feeling. That's just my opinion.


If your asking what is a good box blind rifle, its gonna be hard to find a better gun than that, in a Model 7 chambered for 7mm-08. For a general purpose Texas deer rifle ( it would not be my first choice shooting down long senderos or over oat fields, I prefer more of a beanfield type rifle for that like a Weatherby accumark or Remington sendero for that type work ) its about as good as it gets.

If your Mule deer or Elk hunting is a one time deal....shoot what you got. if It becomes a every year deal..... Shots can get longer there than what most are used to here, so I like to have a gun that's set up for a little big longer range that carries a bit more horsepower. My built for purpose western rig is a lightweight rifle with a 26" barrel in .300 win topped with a 3x18 scope. Now that isn't near a ideal whitetail rifle but doesent hurt to have if your doing south texas trophy hunting.

a Remington Mountain or Hells canyon speed would be a good compromise in a appropriate caliber. A lot of people like the .308....its ok but not my favorite. I always was and always will be a .270 fan. I do like the 7mm-08 but I would give the nod to the .270 if having to use it as a mule deer or elk gun, or any other western species. That said, a 7mm-08 will handily kill an elk or mule deer at reasonable range with appropriate shot placement.

As mentioned before, if you don't have a magnum, this may be a good time, a 7mm Remington or a .300 in hells canyon with the muzzle brake will kick like a .270 and have more performance



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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542533 06/26/19 03:00 PM
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Just reading your post...buy the Browning Hells Canyon. There isn't a thing wrong with that rifle and it sounds like you really like it better than the other two. You can't go wrong with what you are asking for in any caliber you've mentioned...270/7-08/308....I like the 7-08 and the 308 because of the short action and the ability to shoot heavier bullets...just more offerings in those two calibers.

Good luck and enjoy your new rifle!


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: J.G.] #7542534 06/26/19 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Since you mentioned Mule Deer and Elk, why not step up into a mag bolt face long action. Everyone needs at least one. .300 Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag would be a nice addition to your collection.


Fireman,
I've got a Sendero SF1 in 300 win mag that I just don't use. I took it on one hunt down south and it was too long and bulky. It will shoot lights out, but that's only if I take it out of the safe.

For me, a mule deer or elk hunt would be a once in a while opportunity. If it became more than that, I'd consider stepping up at that time. Right now with my boys hunting, it will be the 100-250 yard shots on whitetail.

For caliber, I may start reloading in the future or go to Chad to have some custom reloads developed... so I'm thinking I could have something cooked up that would work for a mule deer or elk if I stuck with the 308, 7mm-08 or 270.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: wp75169] #7542546 06/26/19 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
Well buckeye it’s simply my opinion so that doesn’t make it true except at my house. I can say the opinion is based on experience and ownership and thousands of rounds down range and in animals. The Tikka is certainly nothing to look at and does indeed feel cheap with the synthetic Lite stock. The difference shows up when you sit down behind it to drive.

Bolt operation I guess is also 100% opinion. I did have a 30-40 Krag that I thought was better so there’s that.


I agree, its your opinion just like what I wrote is my opinion. I also readily state I have not shot behind a tikka ever, and that's where the proof is in the pudding with these guns. I also agree that some oil might have made the action more slick.

In all transparency, my experience is comparing apples to oranges though, my "go-to" gun is a cooper 52, and my new elk gun is a fierce fury....so a little more orange than the apple. I was highly considering the Hells canyon for my elk gun, but when I found a great deal on the fury I had to buy it.

Not trying to say tikka doesn't make a good product, just not what I was looking for.

Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542552 06/26/19 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by TXBoss
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Since you mentioned Mule Deer and Elk, why not step up into a mag bolt face long action. Everyone needs at least one. .300 Win Mag or 7 Rem Mag would be a nice addition to your collection.


Fireman,
I've got a Sendero SF1 in 300 win mag that I just don't use. I took it on one hunt down south and it was too long and bulky. It will shoot lights out, but that's only if I take it out of the safe.

For me, a mule deer or elk hunt would be a once in a while opportunity. If it became more than that, I'd consider stepping up at that time. Right now with my boys hunting, it will be the 100-250 yard shots on whitetail.

For caliber, I may start reloading in the future or go to Chad to have some custom reloads developed... so I'm thinking I could have something cooked up that would work for a mule deer or elk if I stuck with the 308, 7mm-08 or 270.


You can ship it, to me. Get it shortened as short as you'd like, a brake added, a Trigger Tech trigger added, and a load developed. It would be like a different rifle, which would be the point.


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542560 06/26/19 03:39 PM
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^^^ Jason knows his stuff. Sounds like a helluva good idea! You won't be disappointed. ^^^

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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: Texas buckeye] #7542563 06/26/19 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by wp75169
Well buckeye it’s simply my opinion so that doesn’t make it true except at my house. I can say the opinion is based on experience and ownership and thousands of rounds down range and in animals. The Tikka is certainly nothing to look at and does indeed feel cheap with the synthetic Lite stock. The difference shows up when you sit down behind it to drive.

Bolt operation I guess is also 100% opinion. I did have a 30-40 Krag that I thought was better so there’s that.


I agree, its your opinion just like what I wrote is my opinion. I also readily state I have not shot behind a tikka ever, and that's where the proof is in the pudding with these guns. I also agree that some oil might have made the action more slick.

In all transparency, my experience is comparing apples to oranges though, my "go-to" gun is a cooper 52, and my new elk gun is a fierce fury....so a little more orange than the apple. I was highly considering the Hells canyon for my elk gun, but when I found a great deal on the fury I had to buy it.

Not trying to say tikka doesn't make a good product, just not what I was looking for.


Definitely not trying to compare it to Cooper. Cooper is on my dream list if I can ever unass the money. Funny I’ll spend more than that piecing one together but can’t bring myself to buy one already built. It’s a mental block I guess.

Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: J.G.] #7542567 06/26/19 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG

You can ship it, to me. Get it shortened as short as you'd like, a brake added, a Trigger Tech trigger added, and a load developed. It would be like a different rifle, which would be the point.


I've got a good friend that wants it more than I need it... so it's most likely going to him as is. Plus I think there is more value there for me if I sell it as is and then use that towards something that doesn't immediately require modifications.

Quick question... how do you shorten the barrel that has the flutes on it? I guess you'd have to chamfer the ends just above the threads for the brake.

I've had conversations with you in the past about the 7mm-08 when I went with the T3X and have been pleased with it's performance. So with that cartridge, as compared to 270 and 308... it seems I can still get a 150 grain off the shelf that doesn't seem to be too far off from 270 and 308 performance. Does the 7mm bullet just perform that much better? Not trying to start the feud between calibers.

Again... I'd really like to go with a 308, unless it's just a much better idea to go with the other two calibers. Cost and availability of the rifle may also play into this.



Last edited by TXBoss; 06/26/19 03:55 PM.

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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542577 06/26/19 03:57 PM
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This gun shoots .75" groups with Hornady factory 140gr ELDM's , 6.5 Creed. My brother in laws and he shoots very little. I just mounted his new scope, I'll sight it in Friday.
There are some GREAT aftermarket triggers for the X-Bolt now, since it has become VERY popular factory rifle

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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542604 06/26/19 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TXBoss
Originally Posted by FiremanJG

You can ship it, to me. Get it shortened as short as you'd like, a brake added, a Trigger Tech trigger added, and a load developed. It would be like a different rifle, which would be the point.


I've got a good friend that wants it more than I need it... so it's most likely going to him as is. Plus I think there is more value there for me if I sell it as is and then use that towards something that doesn't immediately require modifications.

Quick question... how do you shorten the barrel that has the flutes on it? I guess you'd have to chamfer the ends just above the threads for the brake.

I've had conversations with you in the past about the 7mm-08 when I went with the T3X and have been pleased with it's performance. So with that cartridge, as compared to 270 and 308... it seems I can still get a 150 grain off the shelf that doesn't seem to be too far off from 270 and 308 performance. Does the 7mm bullet just perform that much better? Not trying to start the feud between calibers.

Again... I'd really like to go with a 308, unless it's just a much better idea to go with the other two calibers. Cost and availability of the rifle may also play into this.




Shortening a fluted barrel, really needs to only go to the flutes to look right.

7mm-08 really shines when you put a 162 gr in it. But, if you want to stay light, look at the BC of a 150 gr .30 cal, then look at the BC of a 150 gr 7mm. Higher BC means less velocity loss. Less velocity loss means less wind drift, and more energy on target.


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: J.G.] #7542822 06/26/19 08:37 PM
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I looked at Barnes' website and they quote a BC of .35 for a 150 gr .308, but then jumps to a BC of .47 for a 168 gr. But I think your point is that for comparable bullet weights, the 7mm will for the most part have a higher BC than the .30 caliber.

Sounds like you are pointing to a 7mm-08 in favor of the 308 for like bullet weights...


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542824 06/26/19 08:39 PM
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^^You got it. up


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: Buzzsaw] #7542840 06/26/19 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Buzzsaw
This gun shoots .75" groups with Hornady factory 140gr ELDM's , 6.5 Creed. My brother in laws and he shoots very little. I just mounted his new scope, I'll sight it in Friday.
There are some GREAT aftermarket triggers for the X-Bolt now, since it has become VERY popular factory rifle


Buzzsaw,
Is that the HC Speed or Long Range?

Last edited by TXBoss; 06/26/19 08:54 PM.

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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542846 06/26/19 08:56 PM
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Why not the Hells Canyon in .30-06? Same 22" barrel as the .308 so it should still be fairly handy, and a good step up in performance over the .308 and .270.


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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7542862 06/26/19 09:14 PM
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I'd consider the 30-06 also if the price was favorable. I've got plenty of M1 ball ammo I could use for my service rifles. Just initial thoughts were to stick close to my other hunting rifle calibers.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: txtrophy85] #7542866 06/26/19 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
I do like the hells canyon speed. that is a neat rifle any which way you cut it.


I also like the 700 mountain and the Model 7.

I find the Tikkas cheap feeling. That's just my opinion.


If your asking what is a good box blind rifle, its gonna be hard to find a better gun than that, in a Model 7 chambered for 7mm-08. For a general purpose Texas deer rifle ( it would not be my first choice shooting down long senderos or over oat fields, I prefer more of a beanfield type rifle for that like a Weatherby accumark or Remington sendero for that type work ) its about as good as it gets.

If your Mule deer or Elk hunting is a one time deal....shoot what you got. if It becomes a every year deal..... Shots can get longer there than what most are used to here, so I like to have a gun that's set up for a little big longer range that carries a bit more horsepower. My built for purpose western rig is a lightweight rifle with a 26" barrel in .300 win topped with a 3x18 scope. Now that isn't near a ideal whitetail rifle but doesent hurt to have if your doing south texas trophy hunting.

a Remington Mountain or Hells canyon speed would be a good compromise in a appropriate caliber. A lot of people like the .308....its ok but not my favorite. I always was and always will be a .270 fan. I do like the 7mm-08 but I would give the nod to the .270 if having to use it as a mule deer or elk gun, or any other western species. That said, a 7mm-08 will handily kill an elk or mule deer at reasonable range with appropriate shot placement.

As mentioned before, if you don't have a magnum, this may be a good time, a 7mm Remington or a .300 in hells canyon with the muzzle brake will kick like a .270 and have more performance



TxTrophy,,, I don't want to hijack a good and pointed thread so hopefully you can answer without us getting off topic. Whats your reasoning for preferring 270 over 708 for Elk Mule and WT as it specifically applies in this context? I should change my screen name to "dumb as dirt but I wanna change that and I hope yall don't mind".

Last edited by freerange; 06/26/19 09:21 PM.

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Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: TXBoss] #7543470 06/27/19 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by TXBoss
Looking for some feedback on some rifle configurations. Considering a couple different chassis in different calibers. Usage would be for South Texas whitetail most of the time, but want something that can do mule deer and Elk at some time in the future. All my other hunting rifles have been designated to my boys, so I'm looking for something I can use.

Browning X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed 22"
Remington Mountain 22"
Remington Model Seven HS Precision 20"
Tikka T3x 22" (already have this in 7mm-08)

Chassis Thoughts -
I'll start off with the X-Bolt Hells Canyon Speed... I just like it. Probably good marketing on their part but I like the barrel coatings, the stock, threaded barrel / muzzle brake and potential for accuracy. I also wouldn't mind owning a Browning. The Tikka I already have belongs to one of my boys so I'm ready to try something else even though I really like it. The newer Remington's are not super high on my list... not that I don't like them as I already have several older SS ones. Just not a fan of the quality of their new stuff. Also, I don't want anything longer than a 22" barrel because most of the blinds we hunt out of are small and there's not a lot of room to move around inside especially when I have one of my younger boys.

Calibers
I have 7mm-08 & 270 in hunting rifles already but I'd really like a 308 as I have plenty of NATO (Lake City) 7.62 ammo to play with and just like the availability of the cartridge. I could also stick with the 270 (least common ammo that I have). Or be consistent with the 7mm-08 for which I have years worth of Hornady SST ammo (that will hopefully work well in the rifles).

So... looking for feedback on a good combination that will be a good North America hunting setup. If I had to do something today, I'd lean towards the Hells Canyon in a 308.



If a 308 is what you want then get it. It will work well for your stated purpose and there is an abundance of quality factory ammo out there. All of the rifles you are choosing from are good performers. Of your choices, I like the model 7 best for a straight up hunting rig. In my hands it wins for balance and pointability. Tikka is my last choice, unless you are a lefty, in which case it wins. The Tikka T3x I recently purchased shoots lights out. For all you guys on here that really like them, mine functions just fine. I guess I'm just an old guy, but I am struggling to warm up to the bottom plastic.
If I really wanted to include elk the in the mix, I would consider stepping up to a long action.


Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
Re: Rifle Comparision - X-Bolt, T3X or Model 7 [Re: freerange] #7543575 06/27/19 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
I do like the hells canyon speed. that is a neat rifle any which way you cut it.


I also like the 700 mountain and the Model 7.

I find the Tikkas cheap feeling. That's just my opinion.


If your asking what is a good box blind rifle, its gonna be hard to find a better gun than that, in a Model 7 chambered for 7mm-08. For a general purpose Texas deer rifle ( it would not be my first choice shooting down long senderos or over oat fields, I prefer more of a beanfield type rifle for that like a Weatherby accumark or Remington sendero for that type work ) its about as good as it gets.

If your Mule deer or Elk hunting is a one time deal....shoot what you got. if It becomes a every year deal..... Shots can get longer there than what most are used to here, so I like to have a gun that's set up for a little big longer range that carries a bit more horsepower. My built for purpose western rig is a lightweight rifle with a 26" barrel in .300 win topped with a 3x18 scope. Now that isn't near a ideal whitetail rifle but doesent hurt to have if your doing south texas trophy hunting.

a Remington Mountain or Hells canyon speed would be a good compromise in a appropriate caliber. A lot of people like the .308....its ok but not my favorite. I always was and always will be a .270 fan. I do like the 7mm-08 but I would give the nod to the .270 if having to use it as a mule deer or elk gun, or any other western species. That said, a 7mm-08 will handily kill an elk or mule deer at reasonable range with appropriate shot placement.

As mentioned before, if you don't have a magnum, this may be a good time, a 7mm Remington or a .300 in hells canyon with the muzzle brake will kick like a .270 and have more performance



TxTrophy,,, I don't want to hijack a good and pointed thread so hopefully you can answer without us getting off topic. Whats your reasoning for preferring 270 over 708 for Elk Mule and WT as it specifically applies in this context? I should change my screen name to "dumb as dirt but I wanna change that and I hope yall don't mind".



I can find more premium factory ammo selections with a .270 than I can a 7mm-08. And a .270 has a slight edge in terms of power across the board than the 7mm-08.

Both are excellent rounds, I’ve shot a .270 for over 20 years and bought a .7mm-08 for my oldest son and my wife and have one on order for my middle son.





For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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