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Mar 25th, 2012
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Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7528303
06/06/19 06:52 AM
06/06/19 06:52 AM
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Glad I hunt a lease in North Texas... For now.... Neighbor did HF 500 acres. Never heard a shot in 6 years from there so far. Hope they jump out out. Of course only seen a few doe on other side the whole time. Nothing else.

Btw, every hunting property in Texas is a canned hunt. Stay away!!! Go to Oklahoma and Kansas. Huge bucks everywhere there.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7528315
06/06/19 10:45 AM
06/06/19 10:45 AM
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not in relation to breeders but rather just HF ranches - one thing not mentioned is that many people HF their places because if they don't, their neighbors will kill every buck they see despite their age. Yes everyone has the "right" to shoot whichever deer they want but abusing that right is a big part of why HF ranches became popular.

The perfect scenario would be all the LF neighbors working together to let the herd mature but unfortunately that seldom happens.


You can't fix stupid
Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7528349
06/06/19 11:58 AM
06/06/19 11:58 AM
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And some like myself have a HF because of what we raise. In my case Nubian Ibex. And even though it is considered a HF by most WT and Axis still sometimes jump in or out. Those excess animals need to be taken out yearly and hunting is the easiest way of accomplishing it. And I have never had a problem with finding folks to help.

Re: Hornography [Re: tlk] #7528722
06/06/19 07:26 PM
06/06/19 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tlk
not in relation to breeders but rather just HF ranches - one thing not mentioned is that many people HF their places because if they don't, their neighbors will kill every buck they see despite their age. Yes everyone has the "right" to shoot whichever deer they want but abusing that right is a big part of why HF ranches became popular.

The perfect scenario would be all the LF neighbors working together to let the herd mature but unfortunately that seldom happens.


that would be a perfect scenario for all the "legit" big buck hunters. there is still today a large number of hunters today believe it or that that just like to get together with friends and family a few weekends a year and hunt. not worry about this deer and that deer and the other, you shot my deer, i've been watching that deer for three years, I could've shot that deer last weekend, I wouldve let that one go, being around a meat hunting camp and not listening to all the hoopla is very enjoyable for some, so don't knock the neighbors who actually enjoy themselves while at the deer camp

Re: Hornography [Re: woodduckhunter] #7528738
06/06/19 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by woodduckhunter
Originally Posted by tlk
not in relation to breeders but rather just HF ranches - one thing not mentioned is that many people HF their places because if they don't, their neighbors will kill every buck they see despite their age. Yes everyone has the "right" to shoot whichever deer they want but abusing that right is a big part of why HF ranches became popular.

The perfect scenario would be all the LF neighbors working together to let the herd mature but unfortunately that seldom happens.


that would be a perfect scenario for all the "legit" big buck hunters. there is still today a large number of hunters today believe it or that that just like to get together with friends and family a few weekends a year and hunt. not worry about this deer and that deer and the other, you shot my deer, i've been watching that deer for three years, I could've shot that deer last weekend, I wouldve let that one go, being around a meat hunting camp and not listening to all the hoopla is very enjoyable for some, so don't knock the neighbors who actually enjoy themselves while at the deer camp


How about you practice what you preach.....hunt your way if it’s legal and leave your neighbors to do the same on their property as long as it’s legal, which includes building a high fence and stocking deer if they want to...


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Re: Hornography [Re: woodduckhunter] #7528840
06/06/19 11:31 PM
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Last edited by tlk; 06/06/19 11:37 PM.

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Re: Hornography [Re: woodduckhunter] #7528843
06/06/19 11:36 PM
06/06/19 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by woodduckhunter
Originally Posted by tlk
not in relation to breeders but rather just HF ranches - one thing not mentioned is that many people HF their places because if they don't, their neighbors will kill every buck they see despite their age. Yes everyone has the "right" to shoot whichever deer they want but abusing that right is a big part of why HF ranches became popular.

The perfect scenario would be all the LF neighbors working together to let the herd mature but unfortunately that seldom happens.


that would be a perfect scenario for all the "legit" big buck hunters. there is still today a large number of hunters today believe it or that that just like to get together with friends and family a few weekends a year and hunt. not worry about this deer and that deer and the other, you shot my deer, i've been watching that deer for three years, I could've shot that deer last weekend, I wouldve let that one go, being around a meat hunting camp and not listening to all the hoopla is very enjoyable for some, so don't knock the neighbors who actually enjoy themselves while at the deer camp



So I have no problem with everybody getting together for a few weekends and getting their meat. If that is truly the plan then shoot all the does you want. That way all the friends and family get to shoot and take some meat home with them. But WHY shoot 2 year old bucks for the meat??

If your statement is really true then shoot the heck out of the does and you have your meat - leave the 2 year old buck alone


You can't fix stupid
Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7528864
06/07/19 12:02 AM
06/07/19 12:02 AM
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It is really nobodies business what the neighbor does as long as it is legal. If they want to shoot fawns, yearlings, 2 year old Bucks or whatever. It is their property. Just because someone thinks they should be able to dictate what others do is BS. And like what was stated earlier that is probably why the majority of places are HF. That way you can run your business the way you want and you can sleep at night not having to worry about what others are doing.

Re: Hornography [Re: don k] #7528873
06/07/19 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by don k
It is really nobodies business what the neighbor does as long as it is legal. If they want to shoot fawns, yearlings, 2 year old Bucks or whatever. It is their property. Just because someone thinks they should be able to dictate what others do is BS. And like what was stated earlier that is probably why the majority of places are HF. That way you can run your business the way you want and you can sleep at night not having to worry about what others are doing.


A agree - no one else's business who shoots legally what is on THEIR property.

My point is this - do not bitch about it if the neighbor high fences you off for doing so. If a neighbor is going to kill every deer with a horn then that is fine - as your neighbor then I will HF you off - do not complain about it

Last edited by tlk; 06/07/19 12:17 AM.

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Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7528986
06/07/19 01:59 AM
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I shoot 13-1/2" 2 y/o 8 points because I want to harvest more than two deer per year, and cannot legally take more than two does. If I were allowed to harvest four does I would, but the magical powers to be at tpwd will not allow me to legally do so. Would make no difference to me if my neighbor high fenced or not, I would still deer hunt the same way and be just as excited while I did so.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7529276
06/07/19 03:51 PM
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For the record.....my responses were not in favor of or against high fences. My responses were directed toward what I felt was a biased article.



Just wanted to clear that up before this spins off into a tangent on high fences, shooting immature deer and trophy vs. meat hunting and which of the two are more endearing and noble.

Re: Hornography [Re: txtrophy85] #7529299
06/07/19 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
For the record.....my responses were not in favor of or against high fences. My responses were directed toward what I felt was a biased article.



Just wanted to clear that up before this spins off into a tangent on high fences, shooting immature deer and trophy vs. meat hunting and which of the two are more endearing and noble.

Which of the two are more endearing and noble? I think that depends on the individual. Everyone is their own individual. Thinking another can change their minds to go along with their way of thinking rarely works out.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7529333
06/07/19 04:55 PM
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I know a couple of gentlemen who own high fenced ranches, both of which are over 15 sections. Both men have managed their entire ranch - for everything from native flora and fauna, including only native deer. They have been very strict about maximizing the native genetics, herd density and buck to doe ratio's as well as age distribution. I guess my point is that not "all" high fences are bad - these 2 men are great stewards of their land.


Freedom is a fragile thing ...Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again.
-- Ronald Reagan


Re: Hornography [Re: txtrophy85] #7529342
06/07/19 05:05 PM
06/07/19 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
For the record.....my responses were not in favor of or against high fences. My responses were directed toward what I felt was a biased article.



Just wanted to clear that up before this spins off into a tangent on high fences, shooting immature deer and trophy vs. meat hunting and which of the two are more endearing and noble.


Too late.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7529417
06/07/19 06:59 PM
06/07/19 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Choctaw
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
For the record.....my responses were not in favor of or against high fences. My responses were directed toward what I felt was a biased article.



Just wanted to clear that up before this spins off into a tangent on high fences, shooting immature deer and trophy vs. meat hunting and which of the two are more endearing and noble.


Too late.

roflmao


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Milf does the trick.

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Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7532133
06/11/19 12:07 PM
06/11/19 12:07 PM
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After reading the article in the OP post, think I will go throw up.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7532552
06/11/19 07:36 PM
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Wow what an eye opening thread. I joined the THF initially 7 years ago because I wanted to hunt Whitetail and the opportunities are far and few between in my home state. I did kill 4 whitetail's including one nice mature native deer. But I was very "turned off" by the bottled hunts and the breeding of what I consider unnatural antlers. IMHO a mature native whitetail from local genetics regardless of score, is more of a trophy than a 250 inch buck that can't even hold his up straight because of the weight of the antlers. I have in recent years turned my interests to exotics "axis, aoudad, oryx, etc.," because they are not being altered in the same way, and although not in there native habitat they are essentially the same animal you would hunt in there respective country of origin. The only whitetail hunt I would consider now would have to be low fence on a large ranch. Anyway just my 2cents


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Re: Hornography [Re: NMGW] #7532710
06/11/19 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NMGW
Wow what an eye opening thread. I joined the THF initially 7 years ago because I wanted to hunt Whitetail and the opportunities are far and few between in my home state. I did kill 4 whitetail's including one nice mature native deer. But I was very "turned off" by the bottled hunts and the breeding of what I consider unnatural antlers. IMHO a mature native whitetail from local genetics regardless of score, is more of a trophy than a 250 inch buck that can't even hold his up straight because of the weight of the antlers. I have in recent years turned my interests to exotics "axis, aoudad, oryx, etc.," because they are not being altered in the same way, and although not in there native habitat they are essentially the same animal you would hunt in there respective country of origin. The only whitetail hunt I would consider now would have to be low fence on a large ranch. Anyway just my 2cents



I think 98% of the hunting population is turned off by “bottled” hunts for mutant deer.

But those 5% of the ranching operations get 95% of the press so it seems like they are everywhere

Re: Hornography [Re: txtrophy85] #7532750
06/12/19 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by NMGW
Wow what an eye opening thread. I joined the THF initially 7 years ago because I wanted to hunt Whitetail and the opportunities are far and few between in my home state. I did kill 4 whitetail's including one nice mature native deer. But I was very "turned off" by the bottled hunts and the breeding of what I consider unnatural antlers. IMHO a mature native whitetail from local genetics regardless of score, is more of a trophy than a 250 inch buck that can't even hold his up straight because of the weight of the antlers. I have in recent years turned my interests to exotics "axis, aoudad, oryx, etc.," because they are not being altered in the same way, and although not in there native habitat they are essentially the same animal you would hunt in there respective country of origin. The only whitetail hunt I would consider now would have to be low fence on a large ranch. Anyway just my 2cents



I think 98% of the hunting population is turned off by “bottled” hunts for mutant deer.

But those 5% of the ranching operations get 95% of the press so it seems like they are everywhere


IMO your numbers should be something close to reversed. The high fences are put up to make big bucks easy to raise, easy to keep in one place, and ultimately easy to kill on the vast majority of places. Otherwise, there’s no need for the fences. All the other high-falutin’ reasons given are mostly bs given to either convince others or the one giving them that it’s all good. JMHO, but I hold it pretty tightly based on watching all this mess “evolve” since the beginning.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7532942
06/12/19 11:25 AM
06/12/19 11:25 AM
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I hunted South Africa a couple of years ago. Just about all hunting there is high fence. 40 or so years ago there was very little game left. Indiscriminate killing in a protein starved world is easy to understand until you run out of animals. So, somebody started breeding them and selling to others who protected them with fences. The meat from the animals we shot was hauled to "town" and donated to protein starved people.

We don't have that situation here. I can't see me paying big $$$ to shoot any animal no matter what the circumstances. But, I don't care what others do. And, I don't care what the anti's think. Most of them need to go get a job.


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Re: Hornography [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7532957
06/12/19 12:03 PM
06/12/19 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by NMGW
Wow what an eye opening thread. I joined the THF initially 7 years ago because I wanted to hunt Whitetail and the opportunities are far and few between in my home state. I did kill 4 whitetail's including one nice mature native deer. But I was very "turned off" by the bottled hunts and the breeding of what I consider unnatural antlers. IMHO a mature native whitetail from local genetics regardless of score, is more of a trophy than a 250 inch buck that can't even hold his up straight because of the weight of the antlers. I have in recent years turned my interests to exotics "axis, aoudad, oryx, etc.," because they are not being altered in the same way, and although not in there native habitat they are essentially the same animal you would hunt in there respective country of origin. The only whitetail hunt I would consider now would have to be low fence on a large ranch. Anyway just my 2cents



I think 98% of the hunting population is turned off by “bottled” hunts for mutant deer.

But those 5% of the ranching operations get 95% of the press so it seems like they are everywhere


IMO your numbers should be something close to reversed. The high fences are put up to make big bucks easy to raise, easy to keep in one place, and ultimately easy to kill on the vast majority of places. Otherwise, there’s no need for the fences. All the other high-falutin’ reasons given are mostly bs given to either convince others or the one giving them that it’s all good. JMHO, but I hold it pretty tightly based on watching all this mess “evolve” since the beginning.

Your opinion lacks facts and is more about how you feel than substance; just a couple examples are the thousands of acres high fenced by TP&W for the factual reasons (research) you always ignore to suit your narrative. You also fail to mention the thousands of small property owners that have sprung up all over the state that legally shoot way more deer than their property supports. I travel and hunt all over the state and have not seen or experienced this mess that you claim has evolved. JMHO.


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Re: Hornography [Re: Halfadozen] #7533136
06/12/19 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Halfadozen
I know a couple of gentlemen who own high fenced ranches, both of which are over 15 sections. Both men have managed their entire ranch - for everything from native flora and fauna, including only native deer. They have been very strict about maximizing the native genetics, herd density and buck to doe ratio's as well as age distribution. I guess my point is that not "all" high fences are bad - these 2 men are great stewards of their land.


This is another factual example NP, that you like to gloss over and ignore.....many landowners high fence for the reason of being the best land steward they can be. They live in areas where neighbors do nothing to manage their habitat and wild game. They end up with the problem the hill country has now..... way too many mouths to feed which destroys the habitat. You never get to truly see the potential of the NATIVE wildlife.


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Re: Hornography [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7533194
06/12/19 04:40 PM
06/12/19 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by NMGW
Wow what an eye opening thread. I joined the THF initially 7 years ago because I wanted to hunt Whitetail and the opportunities are far and few between in my home state. I did kill 4 whitetail's including one nice mature native deer. But I was very "turned off" by the bottled hunts and the breeding of what I consider unnatural antlers. IMHO a mature native whitetail from local genetics regardless of score, is more of a trophy than a 250 inch buck that can't even hold his up straight because of the weight of the antlers. I have in recent years turned my interests to exotics "axis, aoudad, oryx, etc.," because they are not being altered in the same way, and although not in there native habitat they are essentially the same animal you would hunt in there respective country of origin. The only whitetail hunt I would consider now would have to be low fence on a large ranch. Anyway just my 2cents



I think 98% of the hunting population is turned off by “bottled” hunts for mutant deer.

But those 5% of the ranching operations get 95% of the press so it seems like they are everywhere


IMO your numbers should be something close to reversed. The high fences are put up to make big bucks easy to raise, easy to keep in one place, and ultimately easy to kill on the vast majority of places. Otherwise, there’s no need for the fences. All the other high-falutin’ reasons given are mostly bs given to either convince others or the one giving them that it’s all good. JMHO, but I hold it pretty tightly based on watching all this mess “evolve” since the beginning.



Gonna have to disagree with you on this one sir. High fences are more often than not erected to control the harvest inside the fence. You have much better control of what's inside than with a low fence. One guy put it to me like this.....if I had a bank account, it would be a lot harder for me to manage if 4 of my neighbors had access to it. This way, only I have access to the account ( wildlife herd inside the fence). Whether or not that's fair, ethical etc. is another topic completely.


I can tell you, after visiting an average of 3 ranches a week, 48 a weeks a year for the past 10 years.....a high fence in and of itself does not make it easier to raise big bucks or easier to kill deer. Matter of fact, I know a few high fence places that don't have one buck worth a darn inside the fence, where low fence places have much better quality and quantity. High or low fence, it all boils down to what gets shot that determines deer quantity and quality. I know several low fence places of modest size that have great deer numbers along with excellent quality...because they and the neighbors are good stewards. This isnt' the case in many areas and the easiest way to remedy this is a high fence ( another alternative is to form a co-op and hope the neighbors play by the rules)

These are facts, not opinions. Again, the ethics of containing animals inside a barrier is another matter entirely.

Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7533261
06/12/19 05:53 PM
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Your post contradicts itself. First you point out that “control” is one reason for the fences, then you turn right around and say it makes no difference in the ability to raise or kill big deer. A HF does, in fact, make it both easier to raise and to kill big deer because it provides control over them that doesn’t exist in nature. It’s why they exist.

It’s so obvious I always marvel that there’s even a discussion about it.

Folks can say they’re fine or not fine with them, but to say they make no difference begs the question as to why folks spend thousands and thousands of $$$ building them. Of course they make a difference. They make THE difference that makes it all possible.

The “neighbors shooting deer” issue has been a part of free-range hunting since time began in one form or another.

The “my neighbor fenced in deer that used to come on my place and blocked traditional travel routes that have been used for a hundred years” is also an issue. One that didn’t exist before all the high fences started going up.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Hornography [Re: Choctaw] #7533298
06/12/19 06:21 PM
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Houston, TX
NP, If bucks in a high fence are so easy to kill, why do many of them die of old age without EVER being seen by a hunter? I killed a deer two seasons ago on our place (1,800 HF acres in STX brush country) that I had been trying to kill for 2 years. He was 7 1/2 when he made a fatal error, coming out 2 minutes before the end of legal shooting light, because he had his mind on a doe. Prior to that encounter, no one had ever seen the deer on the hoof. And we have two rancheros living on the place. We had a few nocturnal trailcam photos of him over the years and finally, in 2016, got one daylight photo of him.

We have several other mature trophy deer and mature-post mature culls we've been trying to kill now for a couple years, to no avail. I'm sure trophy bucks behind smaller high fences or wide open spaces inside high fences can be easier to kill, but not on a ranch with abundant natural cover and proper sex ratios. I know this experience (and MANY other similar experiences) over my 49 years of chasing Texas whitetails isn't going to change your mind, but I'm confident when I say you paint all HF ranches with the same brush and that is where I completely disagree with you.

One other thing, due to their transient nature during the rut, low-fence bucks are much easier to kill for me.

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