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Elk caliber #7499118 04/29/19 01:17 AM
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Kyle Horn Offline OP
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Before we get into a war let me share the facts. I’m going on a Wyoming elk hunt in Ferris mountains. I shoot regularly and reload. But my guide has told me my .30-06 is a no go. Not enough energy at 400+. I am looking in the range of 7mm, 300wm, 300rum, and so forth. Gotta keep it light too! Thanks in advance.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499146 04/29/19 01:35 AM
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300 WinMag loaded with 212 ELD-X
I would say 300 PRC with same bullets but seems that as brass and ammo comes available folks are snatching it up.


"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

Jack O'Connor 1963
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499150 04/29/19 01:42 AM
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There’s so much more to it, than that. Your typical .30-06 load has plenty of energy at 400 yards, if energy is your concern. (It isn’t mine.) But what load? What bullet?

Can you even shoot at those ranges, reliably?

Assuming you can, you must pick a bullet of adequate size and terminal performance to kill your animal. A heavy 6.5 mm bullet may outperform a light 30 caliber bullet. It might not. The bullet construction, velocity, etc. will determine such things. I haven’t the time nor inclination to type out all the things that play a factor, and to which end they should lead you. Do some research. Weed through the hearsay to find the facts. Listen to those with genuine experience. Run some numbers. And figure it out. A guided elk hunt is not something to be left to some random folk on a forum.

If that’s too much, then just do whatever your guide suggests. That will at least minimize your options of who to blame when it doesn’t work out.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499159 04/29/19 01:54 AM
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I would stay away from the RUM. I feel the cartridge is on its way out, is expensive to shoot, and is a punisher for the bench time your going to need with a new rifle to be competent at 400 yards. The 300 Win Mag would be my personal choice. Plenty of energy, a variety of ammo to choose from and test, and will not be obsolete in 20 years. In the end I’d rather have the 30-06 I was comfortable with than the boomer I was forced to buy by a guide. Now I always like reasons to buy a new gun. There’s that.

The 7 Mag would be my second choice for the same reasons as the win Mag. Much past 400 it would become my first choice.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499163 04/29/19 01:58 AM
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I think the outfitter is full of baloney personally, but in that case I'd opt for my 7mag loaded with 160 accubonds at 3100fps. 71.5 Retumbo will get you there easily.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499168 04/29/19 02:04 AM
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.30-06 and up will all work fine.

And I like heavy for cartridge bullets running almost to pressure in the chamber. Pretty much a policy.

.30-06 and 180's
7 Rem Mag and 180's (3 elk on the ground with this one, personally, farthest 510 yards)
300 Win Mag and 210's

Ect


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Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499209 04/29/19 02:43 AM
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Do what your guide says.

He is the one who will be by your side.

I shoot 30.06 at 300 yards and step up to a 30-378 for elk hunting as my buddies shoot up to 500 yards for our historical shots.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499233 04/29/19 03:03 AM
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300 WM or 30 Nos with a 215 Berger hybrid. Tons of info by Broz over on the long range forums — https://www.longrangehunting.com/threads/comparing-the-berger-210-vld-to-the-215-hybrid.88657

I took a bunch of elk sized plains game in S Africa with a 30 Nos and the 215 from 300-700 yds. All one shot kills and most dropped on the spot. The ones they didn’t drop didn’t go far.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499322 04/29/19 11:07 AM
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I've never used anything but 30-06 and 180 grain bullet for elk. Never lost one and have made some long shots.


Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499359 04/29/19 12:19 PM
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Kyle Horn Offline OP
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I do believe in my 06. But if me and the guide aren’t on the same page it’s no good. I am not gonna debate with him. Where we will be 400-599 is expected and he doesn’t like the 06. So I respect his wishes, and will buy another gun. So far 300wm is getting mentioned the most

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499372 04/29/19 12:29 PM
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Because I have a 300 Win Mag clearly it is the best.


My botnet is bigger than yours.
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Jgraider] #7499427 04/29/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Jgraider
I think the outfitter is full of baloney personally, but in that case I'd opt for my 7mag loaded with 160 accubonds at 3100fps. 71.5 Retumbo will get you there easily.


In this person's defense, maybe they have seen too many people shoot poorly even after stating they can perform so now they blanket recommend something larger than what a profficient to good shooter would need.

I've had the pleasure of having some interesting (at least to me) conversations with guides. If you couple some of those horror stories with the stories I've heard about "shooting feat of amazement," then yea I think I'd start recommending to others bring something bigger. One guide initally told the woman and I no further shot than about 200 yards max. After that trip, he said we can come next time and try some much longer shot. But by that point we had a long chat about shooting and reloading.

Also, me thinks this guide service is fairly pricey. Meaning most of their clientele can probably afford a rifle upgrade, especially considering today's market where you can get a very reasonable rifle to fit this need for about $5-700 and factory ammo made to perform. And I agree, sometimes I just go looking for reasons to just another gun purchase to the CFO of the house.

And my base-less opinion is 300wm.


I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499437 04/29/19 01:46 PM
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If you are a poor shooter with a 30-06 it will be even worse with more recoil.

Last edited by wp75169; 04/29/19 01:46 PM.
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Sneaky] #7499494 04/29/19 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sneaky
There’s so much more to it, than that. Your typical .30-06 load has plenty of energy at 400 yards, if energy is your concern. (It isn’t mine.) But what load? What bullet?

Can you even shoot at those ranges, reliably?

Assuming you can, you must pick a bullet of adequate size and terminal performance to kill your animal. A heavy 6.5 mm bullet may outperform a light 30 caliber bullet. It might not. The bullet construction, velocity, etc. will determine such things. I haven’t the time nor inclination to type out all the things that play a factor, and to which end they should lead you. Do some research. Weed through the hearsay to find the facts. Listen to those with genuine experience. Run some numbers. And figure it out. A guided elk hunt is not something to be left to some random folk on a forum.

If that’s too much, then just do whatever your guide suggests. That will at least minimize your options of who to blame when it doesn’t work out.


I'm with Sneaky. The hardware is less important than the shooter. Are you comfortable shooting over 400 yards in less than desirable conditions when your heart is pounding out of your chest? I can easily shoot 600 yards off a concrete bench at a range, but I haven't seen many concrete benches available in the mountains. If you want to make your guide happy and need an excuse to buy another rifle, go for it. Just don't get some mega-boomer that causes you to shoot poorly.

That said, my choice would be a .300 WM. Mine, I think largely because of the stock design, beats me up less than my .270.

Have a great hunt!

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499532 04/29/19 03:33 PM
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First, a 30-06, even at 600 yards is PLENTY for elk (see chart below). A 200 grain ELD-X at 2600 fps still has almost 1500 ft lbs of energy at 600 yards. So, yes, it's plenty with the right shooter and good rifle. If you shoot that rifle well and are confident in the rifle, I'd certainly take that rifle with quality reloaded ammo that is consistent enough for the job.

30-06 with 200 grain ELD-X at 2600 fps

Range Velocity Energy
(yards) (ft/sec) (ft-lbs)
0 2600 3001.9
100 2460.1 2687.5
200 2325 2400.4
300 2194.3 2138.3
400 2067.3 1897.8
500 1944.6 1679.2
600 1826.7 1481.8
700 1714 1304.5
800 1606.6 1146.2


Second, if you absolutely have to buy another rifle, any of the magnum calibers will work well. 7 Mag, 300 WM, 28 Nosler, etc... Anything with a magnum size case pushing a 7mm, 30 cal, or even .338" would work . My do-all round is a 300 WM. A 180 grain - 220 grain bullet hits very hard and will have ample energy for long range shots. A 212 grain ELD-X in the 300 WM launched at 2950 fps has proven deadly out to 800-900 yards in several customer rifles. That's a hard combo to beat.


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Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499701 04/29/19 05:42 PM
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Like others have said more than a 30-06 is not really needed but if one can shoot it as good or better than their 30-06 it doesn't hurt. A good friend and outfitter of mine in Montana would much rather see hunters in camp with a 270 or 30-06 they shoot well and are familiar with than any magnum they shoot poorly or are not familiar with. I also agree wit him on hunting, get as close as reasonable. On the hunts I have been on with him the average shots for all elk and deer taken on trips with him have almost all been within 200 yards.


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Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499741 04/29/19 06:18 PM
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In all honesty I have never killed or hunted elk, but have planned to.

I bought a 300 wby for the purpose. I have hunted with it several times, killed several deer/hogs with it and shoot it proficiently. Im not sure if I will carry it when my elk hunt finally comes around or not, it is just as likely I will carry my 7mm08, 270 win, or 30-06.


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Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499745 04/29/19 06:23 PM
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Living in New Mexico for my first 45 years, I have killed elk with: (most of them multiple elk with each caliber)

264. Win Mag;
.270 Win.;
7mm-08;
.300 Win Mag.;
.300 Weatherby Mag.;
.338 Win Mag; and
.375 Ultra Mag.

Wouldn't hesitate to use any of the above again. Would carry an '06 in a heartbeat. Today's bullets make the smaller and non-magnum calibers shine.


You did what?
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499749 04/29/19 06:26 PM
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The mountains are steep and rugged, take the rifle that weighs less and you shoot the best.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Korean Redneck] #7499762 04/29/19 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
maybe they have seen too many people shoot poorly even after stating they can perform so now they blanket recommend something larger than what a proficient to good shooter would need.

More power does not make up for poor shot placement.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: garyrapp55] #7499775 04/29/19 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
maybe they have seen too many people shoot poorly even after stating they can perform so now they blanket recommend something larger than what a proficient to good shooter would need.

More power does not make up for poor shot placement.


Yes it can, but obviously it has it's limits. It won't make up an intended heart shot becoming a arse shot BUT it can make up in intended heart shot that misses +/- a few inches. So a bigger caliber shouldn't so big it makes you flinch or something negative trade off. But it I imagine larger diameter, higher weight and higher speed will be more often than not useful when it comes to the fastest taking of an animal.


I'm a dude who likes long barrels!
Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499826 04/29/19 07:21 PM
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I am going elk hunting in New Mexico this year and Wyoming next year - my caliber of choice is 30-06

My friend who's a guide in Colorado and Utah for many years carry a .243 for elk (just sharing another guide's perspective )

What I don't hear being discussed is the bullet.
Bullet matters

Nosler Partition has been the best performing bullet on any game for me.

a 30-06 can be loaded as light as 110 gr up to 200gr

F=MxV

you can increase M or V to increase F, but if the bullet is not holding together you lose F
and it's effectiveness

I'll bring an extra rifle along, a SAKO TRG-42 in .338 Lapua Magnum... just in case my 06 fails me

I consider 500 yd shot on elk an easy shot for me …. I am betting the trusty old 06 and Partition won't fail me either

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Korean Redneck] #7499862 04/29/19 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
Originally Posted by garyrapp55
Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
maybe they have seen too many people shoot poorly even after stating they can perform so now they blanket recommend something larger than what a proficient to good shooter would need.

More power does not make up for poor shot placement.


Yes it can, but obviously it has it's limits. It won't make up an intended heart shot becoming a arse shot BUT it can make up in intended heart shot that misses +/- a few inches. So a bigger caliber shouldn't so big it makes you flinch or something negative trade off. But it I imagine larger diameter, higher weight and higher speed will be more often than not useful when it comes to the fastest taking of an animal.


No offense KR, but with that philosophy, you've obviously not killed many big game animals.

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Kyle Horn] #7499867 04/29/19 07:59 PM
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(1)7mm (2) 300wm (3) .30-06

Re: Elk caliber [Re: Wytex] #7499869 04/29/19 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wytex
The mountains are steep and rugged, take the rifle that weighs less and you shoot the best.


Let me clarify, it has some steep and nasty stuff but some nice terrain as well.

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