At the end of the day WGAF what people use their money for???? I am not a comp shooter but play with it and I dabble in hunting and enjoy the sport. Just do you... Common goal is the same is it not?

The idea that 6.5 is replacing cartridges, and hunters can't understand why anybody would buy a 6.5

Maybe the entire concept of the thread is proof enough that the perspective is narrow-minded.

I will say that I never intended to encompass only comp shooters. I'm sure they're a very small percentage of the overall community. My intention was to compare hunters (who generally have no use for the 6.5) versus non-hunters (who the 6.5 was built for), and to state that the folks shooting recreationally as their primary firearms activity spend a lot more.

I will say that if you hunt and never shoot more than 20 rounds at a time in a range session, a 7RM or 300WM or anything like that is fine. If you're shooting 50-100 rounds, the advantages of a lower-recoiling round with great long-range performance and very good factory hunting ammo are pretty obvious.

I think the real barometer here may be something like the 6.5 CM, which literally has almost no advantage over something like the 270 for purely hunting uses. How much 6.5CM is being sold compared to 270 right now? Case in point.

I will point all of you toward scopes. Since so many are focused on money spent.

It was not very long ago the ability to hold elevation and wind was a specialty item. Then the ability to hold elevation and wind, as well as dial elevation and wind, was a specialty item. The thousand yard hit was reserved for the .000001% of the U.S. population, and there was this romance and mustique attached to it, MYSELF INCLUDED viewed it that way!!!

Now look at all the different models, by all the different manufacturers making rifle scopes that make 1000 yards just another day. Year after year, at SHOT Show they compete to bring the latest and greatest to market. Would they put so much R & D into optics, and spend so much money on optics, if there was not a return on investment? No, no they wouls not.

Here's a news flash for some of you. Optics are where the rubber meets the road. I could go to my local Academy, buy a rifle, buy a box of ammo, use a scope I already had (not from Academy) and make a center hit at 1k an hour after purchase. The rifles and the ammo are so good, they almost aren't worth discussing. Would those scope companies keep pouring money into R&D, and marketing if they were losing money on the project? No, the answer is no.

Dimwits.

I think you could make a strong argument that most scopes marketed as a long range optic, are just that- emphasis on the marketing aspect.

People want to believe they might be able to pull it off.

Most scopes marketed as such are not even capable of doing it. Most people buying them will never know that. Now I would say the ones featured at the SHOT show do not fall in that category. Most of those are capable, but what is their actual market share vs say Nikon. Total sales $$ I bet the Nikon Prostaff beats everything sold by NF. Yes they would have to out sell them 20:1. I bet they do.

Not picking sides, i don't shoot comp and most likely never will. I have a son that does and i enjoy going to the range with him. I don't shoot recreationally, it is usually with a purpose. Unless you count a thousand rounds of 9mm recreational. Recreational definition may vary i'm sure. I am a good example of where some hunters, not all, may differ from comp shooters. A quick count just thinking about what i own is 29 different calibers. I've hunted with most all of them. Some i may hunt with once every few years just because i want to, such as an original model 92 44-40 over 100 years old. A box of 44-40 rounds will last me several years since there really isn't a need to dial anything in and won't shoot it on anything past about 50 yards. Some i may go through 30 to 50 or so rounds in a typical day getting things dialed in/working on a particular load. Some may only be 4 or 5 rounds just to check zero. A day at one ranch i may go through 200 or more rounds of 17hmr shooting turtles (this may be considered recreational i suppose). My spousal unit would most liklely prefer i only go through 2 or 3 boxes a year rather than a few hundred. I don't dove hunt much anymore but used to buy shells by the case, same with quail.

Exactly my point. They are heavily marketed to the masses that would like to one day maybe shoot long range. Or they think they have found a great bargain, etc. A whole lotta stuff out there is marketing bargains that really are not bargains at all. Like bundled scopes for example.

Rifle bundled with scope is typically crap. I forgot what the argument was....

patriot, I believe your way off base on your comment about hunters not embracing the Creedmoor craze. I believe it's the #1 selling cartridge right now because hunters are learning of it's many virtues. Also, as I posted earlier, outdoor writer Barsness has a very good friend in SA who confirms the same trend in South Africa....the 6.5 Creed is a runaway best seller. This in a country where they have waaay too many animals and must cull them by the thousands every year. The 6.5 works just as well for hunters as it does for shooters, and hunters are embracing it at a very fast pace no doubt.

Also agree with FJG. The market dictates what the manufacturers offer for sale. Seems in the past few years that true hunting scopes are fading away, and we're all seeing more mil/moa reticles and turrets meant to be twisted. They're everywhere.

Along those lines here the 5 guys on our lease and guns hunted last year. All killed deer.

1. 243 & 7-08 — 46 years old

2. 6.8 & 6.5 creedmoor. — 38

3. 30-06. — 49

4. 300 Savage & 300 Win Mag. — 45

5. 6.5x55. — 46

i cant believe i just wasted two more minutes on this:

WORST THREAD EVER

I'm still trying to figure out how to sell tickets to it!

You know . . . . You could make $ with that. Go down, buy cheap gun and order the rest, assemble it, shoot it to 1000 on film for proof, sell that sucker to out of towners. “Yep folks, this here’s a 1000 yard proven shooter!”

On our place last two years

1. 6.5 Creedmoor - 17 years old
2. .243 - 79
3. .243 - 23
4. 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Creedmoor, .308 - 49
5. 7mm-08 - 54

Since i'm the starter of the Thread and this has spun way off course.....I will state this.

I don't think the 6.5 Creedmoor is going anywhere. Its the .270 Winchester for millennials. We had the .270 as our swan song, they have the 6.5 Creedmoor. I can understand why. This generation of new shooters/hunters have not been sold on velocity and knockdown power above all else like we were. Its a mild recoiling, moderate velocity round that is pleasant to shoot and yields good results in the field and has a wide variety of ammo to choose from. It makes a lot of sense for people to purchase guns chambered for them. That said, I don't it is some kind of magic wand caliber that many proclaim it to be, but I don't think its going to fizzle out. Its the love interest of the target shooters, many of whom don't hunt but they do buy a lot of ammo and that above all else will keep it alive.


its funny....I remember when a .280 was a oddball caliber and you could only find one or two loads for it, now it has been rejuvenated after almost 50 years and enjoying immense popularity, especially in the Ackley version. So fizzling out does not mean dead forever.

I'm with you to a point. I agree that it's here to stay. It's effectiveness on game is where the staying power is. Target shooters are always looking for an edge. Currently they find it in the Creedmore but they are a fickle lot. The moment something comes along that gives them an edge over the Creedmore(and it will) the target guys will jump ship. History shows us, that is what they do. The Creedmore blurs the line between target and hunting well enough that the following it has built among hunters who are enamored with carrying a "bad a$$ target caliber" will continue using it. Military use will further mainstream it. Just look at 30-06, 308, 223, 9mm, & 45acp and various iterations of those cases. I'm of the opinion the hunting market is what dictates the longevity of the most popular rifle cartridges. Walk into 10 establishments that sell ammo and start counting hunting ammo vs target ammo. What is on the shelves is what sells the most. While the target crowd shoots significantly more ammo/person, they are a small minority of the shooting public. The evidence is what you see commonly stocked on shelves.

Edited to add: cartridges that I think may be the next to die on the vine-
300 blackout and the Grendel-Fad cartridges that don't do enough things well enough to give either target shooters or the hunting population superior enough performance to make them a logical first choice and little to no backing from ammo or major rifle manufacturers.

How do you explain Gen-X and Baby boomers also using it?

People are learning how to compensate for gravity, and wind (back to the mention of current scopes) And they do not have to have extremely high speed bullets, like before with a 3-9X duplex reticle scope. 400 yards isn't so far away anymore.

Some Gen-X er's still cling to their 308 Win.

I got away from it for a few years. Sold all the brass, and bullets, kept the dies. Got an LR-308. Want to rebarrel it to 7mm-08

If you sell your last 308, you will have to turn in your Gen X card.

Dangit!

your right....400 yards isn't so far away anymore. What would be nigh impossible with my .270 wearing a 3x9 redfield is almost a chip shot with my Weatherbys and 18x Scopes

So, what you're saying is, you didn't connect the dots on what I wrote.

I connect the dots with what you are saying but don’t agree.

For 400 and under a fast cartridge really earns its stripes because it eliminates the need for dialing - or even thinking much for that matter if your rifle is sighted in to take advantage of that speed. Up to 300 or so just put the crosshairs on the animal’s vitals and kill it. Between 300-400 hold a little high as needed. Never hold off hair. Simple.

For hunting, the simpler the better. Saves time and one less thing to worry about. Simplicity = confidence = success.

For paper punching to shoot groups to brag about and/or for long range hunting, I get that dialing and the precision that comes with it is necessary.

I also get some will never understand the above, but that’s just the difference between shooters vs. hunters.