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Your Opinion On Killing Does #7493049 04/21/19 02:40 PM
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Is it best to get them early in season, or late season. Our rut is usually around the 15th-20th of November. We usually wait till about Thanksgiving to take Does but wanted to see if it affected Buck hunting to kill them early. I was of the idea that the more Does you have around rut the better chance of seeing a big buck. Really don't like killing late season Does being as they're already bred...Your thoughts and experiences please.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493055 04/21/19 02:46 PM
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Shoot early no birth.
Shoot late and bred no birth.
If you shoot late the doe might increase buck activity. confused2

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493056 04/21/19 02:47 PM
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My take is if you have a lot of does that need thinning it doesn't matter when you remove them or whether they have been bred or not.
If they are bred, then you may be removing three deer or if not bred then one deer than might get bred.
The bottom line is if the does need to be removed then remove them.

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493060 04/21/19 02:53 PM
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I understand that Jimbo, was wondering if it affected Bucks activity not having as many Does around to breed. Seems to me it would have to, but don't know for sure.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493087 04/21/19 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Stompy
I understand that Jimbo, was wondering if it affected Bucks activity not having as many Does around to breed. Seems to me it would have to, but don't know for sure.


It really depends on how many does you are talking about eliminating?
It shouldn't affect buck activity unless you are talking about reducing a large amount of deer in a broad area.
It's a fact that you want the does around during the rut to attract the bucks, so you would have to allow for that, and maybe take out the does later in the season.
If you have too many does already, it doesn't matter if they are bred or not, you are trying to thin them out anyway, and being bred just makes it worse.

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493106 04/21/19 04:04 PM
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I try to stay about 2 Does to 1 Buck on the ranch, generally only have to take about 6-8 Does per year, some years maybe a couple more. I feed heavily (food plots and protein year round) so my carrying capacity is a little more than normal for this area. I probably just need to stick with what I've been doing and try to get most around Thanksgiving, rut is usually done by then.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493194 04/21/19 05:41 PM
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Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Trash Fish and Cull Bucks] #7493199 04/21/19 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.

Thanks, that's the kind of information I'm wondering about.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493210 04/21/19 05:55 PM
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No problem, always better to remove the does pre-rut. Plus, it is also better from a forage competition standpoint. Each day a doe is walking around, she's eating 5-7 pounds of food. If you need to shoot say 10 does, then that's 50-70 pounds of food lost per day. If you wait a month to shoot them, you've lost 1500-2100 pounds of food from the system.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493347 04/21/19 09:10 PM
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With a tilted doe to buck ratio what you will find is that lessor bucks, will end up breeding them, because the big boys are hung up elsewhere. That leads to more bucks of less genetic potential being brought into the herd. Self perpetuating in other words. Shoot them early.

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: deerfeeder] #7493397 04/21/19 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by deerfeeder
With a tilted doe to buck ratio what you will find is that lessor bucks, will end up breeding them, because the big boys are hung up elsewhere. That leads to more bucks of less genetic potential being brought into the herd. Self perpetuating in other words. Shoot them early.

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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493409 04/21/19 10:32 PM
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Trash Fish hit all the high points. Remove them early so they are not around to consume forage and the fewer the does the more the bucks have to move around to find one to breed.

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493458 04/21/19 11:32 PM
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If you shoot late how do you know you shot is not the one the best buck on the ranch bred. In the wild a buck will only breed 2 maybe 3 on a breeding cycle. I would rather just a few does when the rut starts and know the bigger better bucks are the ones doing the breeding. You will actually see more bucks crusing looking for does verse getting with one and locking down out of sight. The other side effect we found is it create a hole for buck fawns to go when they get run off the doe when the buck shows up to breed does if there are not at many does around

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Trash Fish and Cull Bucks] #7493477 04/22/19 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.


That is one of the best comments I have read on this board in a while. Well done !

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Jimbo] #7493508 04/22/19 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo
My take is if you have a lot of does that need thinning it doesn't matter when you remove them or whether they have been bred or not.
If they are bred, then you may be removing three deer or if not bred then one deer than might get bred.
The bottom line is if the does need to be removed then remove them.

javascript:quickReply(7493056,1,0)

THIS - just take the mouths out (does) and your herd will improve - simple math. Fewer mouths to feed the more food for the mouths that are left - results?? Bigger deer


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: 4Weight] #7493578 04/22/19 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 4Weight
Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.


That is one of the best comments I have read on this board in a while. Well done !


X2

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Trash Fish and Cull Bucks] #7493623 04/22/19 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.


Can't add anything to this post. This is the way is see it too.


Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Grizz] #7493839 04/22/19 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Grizz
Originally Posted by Trash Fish and Cull Bucks
Removing does absolutely affects buck activity, but in a positive way. If the sex ratio is skewed towards too many does, bucks don't really have to compete for, or search very hard for, does. So, while the intent may be to keep does around to 'draw in bucks', it doesn't really work that way. The tighter the sex ratio, the more buck activity because bucks have to search more and harder for limited the breeding possibilities.


Can't add anything to this post. This is the way is see it too.


I sure could have used this advice last season. I passed on several does early, waiting for my buck. Never had a shot at a doe the rest of the season. Small property, and the deer mostly pass through, but the bucks kept cruising.

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7493892 04/22/19 02:44 PM
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Early doe harvest can give higher fawn recruitment due to predator satiation, In theory when combined with allowing what is perceived as higher end bucks breeding (via an early cull program), you have a higher genetic fawn crop you can then cull through...In theory....

Very few properties actually have that amount of resources and control

Its easier to fill doe tags in early season, while bucks are still hold up in the shade, so might as well get it over with and enjoy any increase in pronounced rut that may occur later on



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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7494224 04/22/19 09:36 PM
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I agree that killing them early is the best under most circumstances, especially for areas with high doe to buck ratios. For me it depends a lot more on several other things also. The amount of rainfall you have had, the size of your property, the amount of does/deer needed to be shot, the amount of hunting pressure around you and when your rut is. My place is not very big and when I start shooting 4-5 does that deer get wild quick due to all the hunting pressure put on them around me the deer get wild quickly. It takes them a while to get back to a normal routine. I tried shooting them early in the season under our old MLD program we had in the county in early November(rut is mid November) and the deer hunting was bad. Without MLD I could only shoot up to 2 does in archery season in my county, no does in general or ML season off my license. The last 3 yrs now I have had a very tight buck to doe ratio(blind counts show more bucks than does) and with that the does just will not show up in any numbers or any routine when they get hassled by the younger bucks starting in late October. I have found that in late December the does return to feeders/plots and I can shoot them from late Dec into late Jan. Not the best management plan but it works the best for me. By shooting the does early and then the does not showing up from the pressure around feeders or plots, the mature bucks did not show up either(at night on TC mainly). I was seeing only younger to middle aged bucks during my hunts. I also found on my place here by shooting does early that the bucks were broken up from fighting so much by the time the rut was in full swing. Under the new MLD I can shoot with a rifle from first of archery season till the end of Feb. This past year in archery season I was not seeing many deer, bucks or does at all with an unusually high mast crop. This year I may try to shoot my does in early October one or two per week till I am done.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7494245 04/22/19 10:08 PM
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I agree with Bobo and STXranchman and perhaps your best option may be to get in additional archery hunters in Oct to take out the does. On prior MLD properties our biologist had us taking does asap then followed by the cull bucks based on surveys. We always had problems getting all the does taken. I was just speaking with a ranch outfitter not very far at all from you a couple of days ago and he needs to take IIRC like 60 something does and 48 bucks this upcoming season. Hence, set up some parent/child doe only hunts in early season and offer some THF specials blush

Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7494649 04/23/19 01:18 PM
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Every year we try to kill does early we don't see chit for bucks and everything is running scared before the rut hits. We hunt a smaller property so im sure that makes a difference. Have had much better luck sitting on our hands hunting the rut for bucks and taking out the does we want later season.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: redchevy] #7494661 04/23/19 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Every year we try to kill does early we don't see chit for bucks and everything is running scared before the rut hits. We hunt a smaller property so im sure that makes a difference. Have had much better luck sitting on our hands hunting the rut for bucks and taking out the does we want later season.


^^This^^ - on my place I try to exert very little pressure before the rut and then worry about does late in season.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7494712 04/23/19 02:26 PM
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And just for clarification our place is 320 acres. We feed year round, food plot fallow disk and try to keep the place as quiet as possible all year.


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Re: Your Opinion On Killing Does [Re: Stompy] #7494742 04/23/19 02:43 PM
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The best thing to do if you need to shoot does is to shoot does, whether it's late or early. The last thing you want to do is carry unharvested does over until the next season. In areas with a 'correct' density, time of removal isn't all that important (unless the sex ratio I bad; although it is rare to have an unbalanced sex ratio with a 'correct' density). In areas with a tight sex ratio, timing isn't all that important (unless the density is too high). Plus, there is always the discrepancy between doing what's best for the deer herd and habitat, versus doing what is easiest or most productive to the hunter.


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