texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
Sam Lee, jerrywattson, Historyfan, Buckrough, RITX
65152 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 92,633
stxranchman 54,434
bill oxner 54,132
SnakeWrangler 45,016
RKHarm24 44,583
rifleman 44,426
BMD 41,029
Big Orn 37,484
txshntr 35,534
Facebook
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics428,735
Posts9,230,926
Members65,152
Most Online16,728
Mar 25th, 2012
Print Thread
new law for doe harvest #7486912
04/14/19 12:59 PM
04/14/19 12:59 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
F
fishbait Offline OP
Outdoorsman
fishbait  Offline OP
Outdoorsman
F

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
Have the P&W dept. passed the law in Dewitt county that allows you to harvest a doe using your tags on your licenses for 4 days? Has anyone experienced this process and how did it work?

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7486933
04/14/19 01:30 PM
04/14/19 01:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,290
Carrollton/ Young, Blanco coun...
R
Rustler Online content
Extreme Tracker
Rustler  Online Content
Extreme Tracker
R

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,290
Carrollton/ Young, Blanco coun...
---> TPWD

Kill a doe during the days allowed, tag it with one of your license antlerless tags.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7487008
04/14/19 03:06 PM
04/14/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,726
texas
R
rickym Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
rickym  Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
R

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,726
texas
Itís basic, you have a 4 day doe season and can take one doe. Tag it just like you would any other doe.


Originally Posted by Grizz
Wingshooting is like sex for me - I love doing it but I'm just not that good at it.

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Good hunting leases are like good bird dogs. You donít have them forever, but they leave wonderful memories.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7487074
04/14/19 04:52 PM
04/14/19 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 17,924
Dollas,Taxes Bluff Dale Tx
E
Erathkid Offline
THF Celebrity
Erathkid  Offline
THF Celebrity
E

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 17,924
Dollas,Taxes Bluff Dale Tx
Many areas of DeWitt county have lots of deer. Higher density than we have but they're only allowed 4 days to shoot doe? That's insane.


Life is too short, as is. Don't chance it.
Don't text and drive.
Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7487122
04/14/19 05:51 PM
04/14/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,726
texas
R
rickym Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
rickym  Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
R

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 6,726
texas
I was wrong, they can shoot 2 doe.


Originally Posted by Grizz
Wingshooting is like sex for me - I love doing it but I'm just not that good at it.

Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Good hunting leases are like good bird dogs. You donít have them forever, but they leave wonderful memories.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7487821
04/15/19 03:32 PM
04/15/19 03:32 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
F
fishbait Offline OP
Outdoorsman
fishbait  Offline OP
Outdoorsman
F

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
Sorry, I should have been more clear...what effect did it have on the doe population? Seems to me it will be like it was in the 1970 s. Using the process of a doe season causes many does to be harvested and initiated day lease practices where everyone has two permits on your licenses. Where if you have doe permits you will harvest only a finite amount. Even if it is only four days, it is designed to harvest more does. I think if the county is over run with many does this is the process I would recommend however, this same process will be harmful to the small leases with a modest doe population. I was just hoping to get a result from hunters using the four day doe season. Possibly, it will work fine. I'm not sure if a hunter like me would even notice even if it did make a big difference.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7488013
04/15/19 06:56 PM
04/15/19 06:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 605
Nacogdoches, Tx
R
Russ79 Online content
Tracker
Russ79  Online Content
Tracker
R

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 605
Nacogdoches, Tx
Just because you can harvest two does doesn't mean you have to. If your lease seems to not have many does then you and your members can decide what you can harvest. I am not following your text- does the county have a separate doe season where that is all you can shoot or are you only allowed to shoot does during a four day period during general season. For instance, last year in Nacogdoches county you can only shoot does (not counting archery season) from opening day of general season to the Sunday before Thanksgiving. Those are our "doe days".

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7488642
04/16/19 01:04 PM
04/16/19 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
F
fishbait Offline OP
Outdoorsman
fishbait  Offline OP
Outdoorsman
F

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
Thanks Russ for your input, to fill ya in, it is not what you decide alone but the aggregate and the sum of the area. If I was a hundred miles from the nearest hunter, then I could make that decision you suggested. With the total hunters and their harvest have depleted the heard, some years by a lot, some years just a small amount. The total each year will continue to drop according many deer census I have taken. The new process will only encourage more does taken. I am not in the know how P&W has made this decision. You can rest assured I have made it clear to P&W the continuing drop in the doe population in our area. I hope the new process will not continue to drop the doe heard. We will see.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7489076
04/16/19 07:38 PM
04/16/19 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
stxranchman  Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
In my county we have had a 2 doe limit during archery season. In my portion of the county we could not take does in the general season unless we were under MLD. We had a limit on antlerless for our area based off of the survey data. My area was a doe to 200 acres. That survey was bases off of an area wide number and not my general area. I was given more doe permits based off of my data I turned in. I will still have the MLD or I can still shoot 2 does during archery or the new doe days. The issue in Goliad County is they would issue the doe permits but only about 50%(IIRC) were being used. The doe and total deer population has continued to grow under the AR restrictions and limited doe harvest. I can fully agree about deer numbers increasing in my area as they have increased steadily in the last 6 yrs. For a long time I was the only one in a large area that was shooting any does. The property sizes have not changed any in my area. One LO has bought up several ranches and now controls a larger area. Low fawn crop numbers(17%-25% for a 4 yr period) over the past 6 yrs has helped to keep deer numbers down or the population would be way out of control.
I was not a fan of the doe days since it was during a time frame when I used to be in the Trans Pecos hunting mule deer, but with MLD to fall back on it will not effect me. My second concern was that it was right in the middle of the rut in my area. Bad timing to shoot does IMO. When they had the public meeting to discuss it here, I went. I talked to the TPWD guys after the meeting and they said that most all of the meetings to date had about 80% public approval for the does days. Goliad County was the lowest at around 50% for doe days. The amount of does one person can take is still the same. The only thing that has changed is the amount that could be taken off of one property. The fact that the days will be on a Holiday weekend could be a positive or negative. More people could be on a property or more could be away visiting family. Success or failure will depend on the landowners involved with their land and management of it.



Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7489551
04/17/19 11:22 AM
04/17/19 11:22 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
F
fishbait Offline OP
Outdoorsman
fishbait  Offline OP
Outdoorsman
F

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
The same here...you can get more permits at only a request. Sxranchman, you can vary harvest from the area survey results recommendations..which I buy into. Time will tell whether a good thing or not about harvesting from your licenses. However, the area surveys have a problem of being accurate. Only when a survey reveals a change of significant numbers ...low or high..the change is large and hard to overcome. Surveys by the P&W is less than 60% accurate..which is not good, however over a long term it will be noticed. Be very careful when an area has hunters that do harvest does. Like in your case, you are the only one taking does I am surprised the population has not exploded. I wonder what density an area such as yours is carrying for the overall area. I would buy into the process of licenses tags in an area of a large population...which P&W believes that the population is high...hence a change was needed. My only concern is when using licenses tags there become problems of over harvesting before a change takes place. If by chance all hunters in an area decide to harvest does for a change large herd changes could be problems. The licenses tags is a tool and possibly a good one.. I only remember when over harvesting was the issue years ago when we practiced licenses tags. I recommend a camera census be taken annually to help P&W regulate the harvests. I wish P&W would recommend such a practice for all leases. I am optimistic so far but concerned.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7489845
04/17/19 04:53 PM
04/17/19 04:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
stxranchman  Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
You are only harvesting for four days. Lot more traffic and a lot more pressure on smaller places will effect how successful the doe days are IMO. Lot of places will not have any hunting pressure due to holidays. Many will have more people hunting. TPWD surveys in my county are conducted by members of the local WMA. Each sector of the county that has different habitats is surveyed separately. So I think we have 5 sectors. Each sector is surveyed by volunteers from that area. They run the same lines each year to get better trend data. My TPWD biologist told me that if I could get 1000 or more acres that adjoined, we could survey it and do our own management plan for the MLDP doe permits. My area of the county has showed a deer to 17 acres over the past 20 yrs of surveys. Buck to doe ratio of 1 to 2.7. My property is more a deer to 8 acres or so and I have shown more bucks than does for the last 4 yrs now. I can count bucks off of trail cams in late Aug till end Jan and loose maybe 10-12% off of the total annually. The amount of bucks I have that use my place during that time frame is staggering for the size property I have. It breaks down to a buck for every 4-5 acres every year from Aug till end of Jan. They do not all live on my place but I can hold that many for a few days at a time due to hunting pressure and food sources(plots and protein year round).
I do know at the public meetings that those questions were asked about over harvesting on any size property. The only thing they could say is that in other areas with doe days they have not seen any over-harvesting on a large scale. I prefer doe days in general season so that I can hear and gauge the amount of shots fired. In archery season you have no way of knowing what is being shot or not. I prefer to harvest does later in Jan-Feb so I can adjust my numbers if needed based off of what I am seeing at that time and weeks leading up to that time.
The reason my numbers have not exploded in my immediate area is I have been harvesting does and I have had very low fawn crops. Their is serious coyote and bobcat problem and with some ranches over grazing that it keeps fawn crops low. I shot, trapped and snared predators for the first 4 yrs and went from 45% fawn crop the first year in 2012 then to 17% for thenext 3 yrs in row. Those numbers were with varying amounts from low rainfall to high rainfall( to annual average) in that period. I quit trapping and snaring(still shot what I saw) the last 3 yrs now and fawn crops have gone up with the same type of rainfall. Puzzling to say the least that with no predator work the numbers go up. This year I am back to trapping and snaring due to more coyote/bobcat sign and activity.
There is never, nor will there ever be a blanket management plan that will work or satisfy every landowner or area in a county. To many variables from property to property. You just have to work with what is available and control what you can control on your land. It is still up to the landowner to make the decision on his land no matter what the neighbors are doing or not doing on their land. Land fragmentation has changed the habitat greatly in the past 40 yrs. I hunted Dewitt County in the late 60's. That area we hunted is not the same habitat nor the same number of landowners today as it was back then. When we hunted in the late 60's the deer numbers were much lower than they were in the early 70's when the population exploded. I saw an article once that showed how the population in Dewitt had exploded in that short time frame. It was not good for the habit. Same for Goliad County today. Lot more landowners today than 40 yrs ago. In my area where I own land, there was one landowner that owned 1200 acres and today there are 4 landowners that own what he once did. The landowner to his south owned 1900 acres and it now 2 landowners. To that south of that 1900 acres was 3000 acres that is now 5 landowners. All this change has been within the last 15 yrs. Lot more land without cattle today than years past. Lot more landowners planting food plots and/or using protein feeders. That alone can increase deer numbers.



Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7490088
04/17/19 08:39 PM
04/17/19 08:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
F
fishbait Offline OP
Outdoorsman
fishbait  Offline OP
Outdoorsman
F

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 88
Dewitt County
If I understand you correctly looks like you have 1 buck per 4 acres. Wow that is a lot of bucks, what is your deer density and ratio? Yes, I understand how your county works as it is the same here. However, I am surprise that you say in the 70's the deer population was high in DeWitt county, in the 70's we had an outbreak of a disease caused by 10 year dry conditions that wiped out most of DeWitt county deer. The meetings TPWD say that there were no over harvesting ...my next question is what was their target for the county? The does were based on the county survey. The survey is not accurate enough to say there was or was not a difference or an over harvest. As time goes on hunters might notice a difference or may not, even if there were over harvesting going on. On my place, a healthy density is 5.69 does per blind, a low density is 3.69 does per blind. As a hunter I don;t think I would know the difference. The 5.69 represents a 45 doe population which is good. The 3.69 represents 30 doe population. 30 is too low and 45 is perfect for my place with a fawn crop around 55%. I think P&W is telling you what you want to hear. The real test will come when day leasing comes back. Day leases wiped out deer in a lot of locations. To say only four days to harvest does keeps it in check...only time will tell. When you finally notice a difference it will be too late. Each land owner needs to have their hunters have an annual deer count by cameras using a certified process. This is the only way for owners to protect their herd from being over harvested. P&W needs to hold classes on how to do a camera survey. However, P&W claims camera surveys are not accurate....rest assured I know for a fact that camera "census" is very accurate if done right. I have been doing deer census for over 12 years. Sounds like you have a nice place with lot of deer.

Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7490096
04/17/19 08:47 PM
04/17/19 08:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,543
Collin County, TX
U
unclebubba Online content
Veteran Tracker
unclebubba  Online Content
Veteran Tracker
U

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,543
Collin County, TX
We have the 4 doe days in Navarro county too. We have (at least at my place) WAY too many does. It seems that they all knew when we were out hunting them, and it seemed the only deer we saw during doe days were bucks. I wish they would open it up and allow does any day during the season, or at least the first 15 days of gun.


Originally Posted by txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: new law for doe harvest [Re: fishbait] #7490174
04/17/19 10:06 PM
04/17/19 10:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
S
stxranchman Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
stxranchman  Offline
Obie Juan Kenobi
S

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 54,434
I have about one buck per 5 acres use my land or move in over the last 3 yrs now in the hunting season with food plots, free choice protein and the fact the deer know there is limited hunting pressure here during that time. In a 3 day period during the last week of Dec. 2017 I saw 37 different bucks and 2 more on TC that I did not see during a 3 day period. Those bucks move in and use my place during hunting season but do not stay here year round. I think my density is a deer to 8-9 acres based off of feed consumption and blind count... when it should be a deer to 17 acres according to surveys conducted by the GCWMA over that past 20+ years.
My 7 year buck to doe ratio average is 1 to 1.18. My 7 yr fawn crop average is 40%. In 2015 my blind counts from archery to end of deer season in Jan was .70 does per 1 buck. In 2016 my blind counts from archery thru doe season was .48 does per 1 buck. In 2017 was back to what it should be at 1.12 doe per 1 buck. This past year in 2018 it was back to .64 does per 1 buck again. My fawn crops have range from 57% in the drought year of 2012(9" rain from May till end of year) with county survey in my area showing 45%. Then I started predator control in 2013 and fawn crop was 29% in 2013 with 26" of rain and then 24% fawn crop in 2014 with 26" of rain. I had over 45" of rain in 2015 and fawn crop was 55%. I quit shooting and trapping predators that year in 2015(for 3 yrs) and the next year in 2016 it was 64% fawn crop with 34" of rain. 2017 and 2018 showed fawn numbers down to 26%. The last 2 yrs from 2017 and 2018 I shot every coyote I saw and a few bobcat(no trapping) and fawn crop numbers dropped again.The county survey in my area showed 17% fawn crop for 4 yrs in a row from 2014 to 2017, so I showed a bit higher fawn crop than their survey in my area.
The target for the county is different in each of the management areas. The target in my area is a deer to 17 acres. It is all based of the survey numbers in each section of the county. Habitat varies in the county from river bottom, to farm land, to sand, to caliche hills. From Post Oak to Live Oak mottes to blacbrush thickets. From open type grassland to dense brush areas. Ranch size vary from smaller to larger in the county also as you move from north to south of 59. Much different habitat and ranch sizes from the north/east to south/west side of the county. Rainfall varies from the east to the west across the county also. My target here is a buck to doe ratio of 1 to 1 with a deer to 12 acres on my land with limited grazing, food plots and year round protein. I do not ever want a fawn crop over 45% since IME it gets to hard to manage the population with higher fawn crops. At 1 to 1 ratio and 45% fawn crop I can keep the numbers under control. If the buck to doe ratio was 1 buck to 2.7 does I could get in trouble in a couple of wet years that allowed a 60% fawn crop. If I could keep more bucks than does it would be great but that many bucks would allow the older mature ones to push off the less dominant ones. Those bucks would move into new territories and may or may not get shot.
My sightings of deer per hunt varies from year to year and month to month even in the same season. I can see only 2 or 3 deer in archery season into mid Nov to 12 bucks and no does in one hunt. I might see more in late October in one year and less the next. At the end of Dec there was one day where I saw 41 buck sightings and 24 does/5 fawns in one day of hunting. Some bucks and does were seen in the morning and evening but it was still over 30 different bucks in one day. There was time from Dec 13, 2017 till Jan 7th I saw in the 25 days I hunted. I averaged 19.2 buck sighting per day, 15.2 doe sighting per day and 3.4 fawn sightings per day. So about almost 19 deer per sit. The bucks raised over the last 7 yrs have been used to food plots and free choice protein year round so the last 3 yrs my buck numbers from mid Dec into Feb are very high.
When I use cameras I only count bucks, since I mainly see bucks only in about 90% of my TC pics at protein feeders. Very few does at protein here the last 4 yrs now. I do incidental and blind counts on does/fawns. I can then set deer ratios and density much better by doing TC on bucks and other counts for ratios. I used to use protein consumption to set deer numbers but with rainfall and food plots now I can go months without seeing many deer in feed pens...it is almost 100% bucks at those times if I do see deer in TC pics. But even with cameras on the feeders I still have deer that will not jump into a feed pen. I see them on cams at water sources or in person but not in feed pens. In very dry years when I have fed a lot of protein I can get pretty accurate count on deer numbers. Post rut I get a lot of bucks for about 4-6 weeks on protein and longer if it is dry. If it rains the feed will drop off in March into May. Then increase a bit till it rains. The last 3 yrs I have fed very little protein from June into late Sept. Last year I filled feeders in late June and did not have to put any feed out till late October. Rained at key times then heavy mast crops.
The issue with any one persons management goals is it will never mirror his neighbors. So requiring landowners to survey and try to implement LO limits is going to be difficult. Some people like to see lots of deer, I like to see mature bucks and could care less about numbers. You and I are discussing our management plans and goals. Yours seem to be higher deer numbers with older bucks. I care only about mature bucks and could care less about numbers, I understand I only need enough does to produce enough fawns to give me the mature buck numbers. I only want to see about 2 does per hunt till the rut, then I want to see more. But with my buck to doe ratio being skewed to more bucks, the does will not show up from early October at a corn feeder, they will return in more normal numbers later in the year around Jan 1st. The young bucks will dog the does so much they just will not show up. We both may have neighbors who could care less about buck numbers, ratios or their habitat. They only are interested in killing deer to eat. I have and never had any issues with what someone else does on their land. One can only manage what is on their side of the fence.



Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1