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Mar 25th, 2012
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Effective range #7435812
02/16/19 05:59 PM
02/16/19 05:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,298
Central Texas
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Hopedale Offline OP
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of an inline muzzleloader.

What do you think it is?

Watched a youtube video and the guy sent one down range and hit center mass at 300 yards. His next two shots the bullet had some drop. Still hit the target but I was curious to what ya'll think.



Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7435966
02/16/19 10:18 PM
02/16/19 10:18 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 339
Idaho Falls, Idaho
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Blank Offline
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Idaho Falls, Idaho
You had better practice a lot if you intend to shoot 300 yds. with your muzzy, and expect to cleanly harvest a deer or other animal all the time. They deserve it, and not having legs shot off or worse. A good rule of thumb for 300-400 grain bullets at 1400-1600 fps is to zero for 125 yards, 10" low at 200 and 30" low at 300 yards.

As you can see, it will drop like a rock when it starts getting out there. If you are trying to beat gravity, you'll soon end up with scopes, more powder, 209 ignition, smaller faster bullets in sabots, etc. By then, you'd be better off with a rifle!

Not the reason I shoot and enjoy my muzzleloaders.

Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7435972
02/16/19 10:41 PM
02/16/19 10:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 25,211
Texas
kmon1 Offline
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A lot depends on the ML and shooter. There are some that cost thousands of dollars that have the power and velocity to make it easier but still dealing with not so flat trajectory.

Like noted above not why I hunt with a ML, to me it is more about the hunt an getting within 150 yards or less.

Re: Effective range [Re: Blank] #7436025
02/17/19 12:03 AM
02/17/19 12:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,298
Central Texas
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Originally Posted by Blank
You had better practice a lot if you intend to shoot 300 yds. with your muzzy, and expect to cleanly harvest a deer or other animal all the time. They deserve it, and not having legs shot off or worse. A good rule of thumb for 300-400 grain bullets at 1400-1600 fps is to zero for 125 yards, 10" low at 200 and 30" low at 300 yards.

As you can see, it will drop like a rock when it starts getting out there. If you are trying to beat gravity, you'll soon end up with scopes, more powder, 209 ignition, smaller faster bullets in sabots, etc. By then, you'd be better off with a rifle!

Not the reason I shoot and enjoy my muzzleloaders.



I agree which is why I started the thread. 300 yards with an inline seems to be pushing it.

Here is the video and you can see his first shot to 300 yards he's got a clean rifle, custom load, and perfect conditions for target shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cD9Nc0zwOw&t=828s



Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7439002
02/20/19 12:06 AM
02/20/19 12:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17,224
North Texas
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Closest comparison on the chart shows him getting around 2123 fps muzzle velocity
http://www.blackhorn209.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/b209muzzleloaderdata.pdf

Effective range is another thing. At 340 yards what is the fps of that bullet and how is it going to react on a soft target at that velocity? Both penetration and expansion. I am sure there are other charts and ballistic gel tests one could find to get a best guess answer if one had enough interest to look for it.

Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7441524
02/22/19 05:37 PM
02/22/19 05:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,280
BenBrook Texas
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GLC Offline
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I have a CVA that shoots pretty well but I wild not take it past 100 to 150 yards.



Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7441898
02/23/19 12:49 AM
02/23/19 12:49 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,378
Pettytown, TX, US of A
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Vern1 Offline
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I have a 45 Kentucky Rifle and a 50 Hawken.
I have taken game at 125 yards with the 45 a couple of times but normally shoot 100 yards or less.
Have punched paper with the 50 and feel confident with it at 100 yards also.
They are both traditional cap and ball front stuffers.


Cheers,
Vern1
Texans since The Old 300 in 1824
NRA Lifetime Member
Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7442324
02/23/19 04:34 PM
02/23/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 220
Wylie, TX
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bassman110 Offline
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Wylie, TX
The furthest I would feel comfortable taking a shot would be 125 yards with my CVA w/3-9x40 scope using 250gr Barnes bullets and 100gr or powder. It probably has the ability to take an animal out further. But as noted I feel I would really need to spend a lot more time behind my muzzleloader shooting at longer distances to understand the drop and grouping. Most of the ranges I shoot at only go out to 100 yrds so that is where I stick.

Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7451816
03/06/19 05:07 PM
03/06/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 10,866
wondering about the woods
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colt.45 Offline
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scratch As pappy say's :

"Depends apone d jerk b hind d trigger, the bigger d jerk d bigger d miss down range... "

just my 2cents bought an in-line this year for deer muzzle loader season... didn't feel confident, confused2, think scope was loose, had troubles zeroing in at close range at a still target, so did't use it this year... miss me .45 Kentucky... actually had tighter groups with it at same range with ball&cap, open sights, using Goex powder...

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Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7453820
03/08/19 06:10 PM
03/08/19 06:10 PM
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GaryRI Offline
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I have a Savage smokeless ML that I have put alot of time in at the range. I am confident to 200 yards.

Re: Effective range [Re: Hopedale] #7454408
03/09/19 12:18 PM
03/09/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 61
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JABHunting Offline
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There's a "muzzleloader" and there's a "cartridge-less rifle". Really should be two different things. Some rifles are made for smokeless powder and others are made for a lot of black powder substitute and special bullets and ignition systems. Mostly you end up with a .45 caliber rifle with a 2000 fps or so velocity. Just equate this to a cartridge. Maybe a 45-70 with Leverevolution ammo (pointy bullets). How far would you feel the "effective range" of that is? I would consider two factors foremost - What is the distance where you can consistently keep a tight group and what are the design parameters of the bullet? If the bullet gets there but doesn't expand you will have a caliber-diameter hole (so .45 aint bad) but no expansion. Most any modern muzzleloader will have enough "oomph" to kill a deer at long range if it is accurate. Airgun hunters are routinely killing deer at 100-yards with 45 and 50 caliber rifles that shoot a 300-500 grain bullet at 700-900 fps muzzle velocity. In the Texas testing prior to approving air guns for big game the test gun was a 30 caliber shooting a 150 grain bullet at 880 fps and it dropped whitetail at 100-yards. With that perspective you can do a lot with a muzzleloader. Decide what your purpose is and get a rifle made for that. I personally enjoy a flintlock rifle that is 178 years old. It will group a round-ball into 3" at 100-yards off the bench and easily kill deer and bigger. I would shoot it out to 120-yards because after that the open sights take up too much space on the animal to aim precisely. My son has a 50 caliber that shoots a conical bullet and has a scope on it. It is sighted in dead-on at 150 yards and he knows the drop out further. It is a traditional sidelock percussion rifle that uses a full bore conical. It is sighted in like that because where he hunts that is how far the furthest feeder is. At the range we shot at 200 and 300 yards. The drop is tremendous and the group size opens up exponentially the further you push it. Would it be "effective" as in capable of killing a deer? You bet! But hitting it precisely past 200 even with the scope would be inconsistent at best.

Re: Effective range [Re: JABHunting] #7459769
03/16/19 12:46 PM
03/16/19 12:46 PM
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GaryRI Offline
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I live in Southern New England and am limited to shotgun & ML for deer hunting. And I'm retired & widowed so I am able to put a lot of time into hunting starting in October/archery (w/410 Barnett Ghost). Using my old CVA inline, and before that a sidelock, I was confident to 100 yards & would push to 125. Same was true hunting with a rifled barrel 20 guage 870 drilled & tapped with a scope shooting sabot loads. Acquiring a Savage smokeless ML and the Savage bolt action sabot shooter got me to 200 yards. Both are sighted in at 150 yards. In the fall I shot two deer at 180 yards and a third at 140 with the smokeless ML. I've never had an opportunity with the shotgun in excess of 100 yards. The fellow members of my gun club that have Savage smokeless MLs say that with black powder & black powder substitutes it is "just another ML".

Both firearms are 1.5 MOA shooters at 100 yards. The smokeless stays so at 200 with the right powder. The shotgun not as good (cost of sabot rounds disuades me from shooting it as much) but I assume the smokeless is tighter because MV is higher.

Remington now has a ML the call the Remington Ultimate ML and their webste claims it is edffective to 300 yards using BP substitutes. Eventually someone at my gun club will buy one but until I see one in action it is hard to belive 300 yards.

Summing up, unless using a specialized ML or bolt action rifled barrel sabot shotgun 125 is the limit and I can get to 200 with fancier equipment.

I just picked up a Hastings rifled barrel with cantelever scope mount for the 870 and look forward to seeing if it can match the Savage bolt action for accuracy.

& I'm lucky that my gun club has a 200 yard range.

Last edited by GaryRI; 03/16/19 12:49 PM.
Re: Effective range [Re: GaryRI] #7474102
03/31/19 05:22 PM
03/31/19 05:22 PM
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Posts: 10,866
wondering about the woods
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GaryRl, i been shooten muzzle loaders 40+ years, since 70's, as have said many times, on this forum, dont consider myself an expert.. JABHunting, grammer tis way better than mine, i gots D- in grammer, ( by the way, welcome ta the texasHF ta the both of ya... ) Have attempted pointing out same thing he posted on the differance's of black powder & in-lines. Both are loaded threw the muzzle, thats reason the called muzzle loaders... Have several blackpowder pistals, .44 cal rep 1851 six-shooter, also a New Orleans special, ( think tis what its called), both use black powder, six shooter is loaded in cylinder, the other down muzzle...So western style six shooter tis NOT considered a muzzle loader... Black powder Muzzle loaders, use #'er 10 & 11 caps or flint to ignight powder, & ignition tis off to the side... In-line tis in line with the bore, & use at 209 ignition system, basicly a shotgun primmer... & the biggest differance tis the powder... Reason for the in-line & bigger primmer caps...
The differance in mixture of powder tis what gives the greater acracy & distance for in-lines... Also projectal, patch & ball, witch i prefure in my .45 Kentucky's, minni & maxi balls , twist in barrell, witch was actualy discovered, & was to improve more rounds fired between cleaning, (smooth bore vs riffling), for the side lock traditional ML.. While the in-line bullets have improved also for better acracy...
Thar be many reasons for the as back Effective range between BP & in-lines, my 2cents tis powder, i got cheap posts, & each have own opinions...
As pappy say's : Keep your head held high & your powder dry...
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