I don’t hate on Vortex. I have as many good things to say about them as bad. However, considering the failures I’ve encountered in their products, along with many, many others (not occasional and not combos,) it does not speak well to their reputation of quality. I expect a thousand dollar scope to handle any reasonable amount of recoil without the reticle coming loose. Their warranty is awesome. That does me no good at 9,000’ chasing the bull I’ve waited for all year. It isn’t hate. It’s the truth exposed by experience. And that’s just hunting, which we know is obviously not as harsh as competition.

Well said Sneaky

Same thing goes for a Leupold that costs the same amount of money but won’t track while out in the mountains. If it wasn’t for Leupolds known tracking issues my hunting setup would wear a VX-3 CDS instead of a vortex PST. I prefer the Leupold glass but my Vortex PSTs have always tracked perfectly.

Heck, there’s a thread on snipershide right now where a guy is talking about his S&B that has gone in for repair 3 times now.

Just because someone has a defective scope or an issue with a scope doesn’t make the whole line bad quality. There’s hundreds more people that have nothing but positive things to say about the Vortex PST. Mine have been better scopes than any Leupold or even Nikon I have ever had.

you know guys, I dont really see what the difference between this guys "4 shot zero and hunt" and bow hunters maiming deer is

And I take your experience with scopes into account. I believe you. My PST always tracked great, as well. There’s far more Vortex products out there that haven’t failed than have. I still find their rate of failure unacceptable. There’s usually a better, more reliable option out there, for the money. Reliability is everything to me. Nothing else matters if you haven’t got that.

^^Agreed, Sneaky

Not trying to be a turd because I understand your point. That being said, do you truly know the actual failure rate? Honestly, only the manufacturer would know that number.

I don’t know this for sure but I would be willing to be bet that the PST has outsold any other scope in its class by a 5:1 margin. If that is the case, there should be way more PST failure stories than other scopes just based on the sheer volume they sell. They could have the exact same failure rate but you will hear more about PST failures because there are just that many of them out there.

The crossfire is a huge piece of Chinese crap

Well, we've heard about it. Add me to the list of someone that has experienced a failure, and sent it in. I also got dust inside of the scope of the PST, as well as my Gen I Razor spotting scope. Seems they can't even get them sealed up. I sold the PST, and still have the Razor spotter. Once a spotter comes out, with a reticle, from a more reliable manufacturer I will switch. Until then, I'll keep using the spotter. But, there is a zero percent chance it will cause me to have a failed hunt, like the PST did.

Yeah, Vortex is known for a great warranty and great customer service. And just about everyone that has bought a Vortex has experienced those.

Those failures is what pushed me over the edge to buy a NF ATACR F-1. It shouldn't let me down 500 miles from home, at a match or during a hunt. Yeah, it's heavy, so what, it's tough as boot leather.

That Nightforce and the PST are apples to oranges man. Vortex PST isn’t even in the same solar system as Nightforce. Man, if I had the money, I would be buying S&B, Kahles or NF without a doubt. I’m not saying the PST is the end all be all of scopes. But for what it is, it’s a heck of a scope at its price point with amazing customer service and warranty to boot. I know I’m covered if I have an issue and so far like many others, I have a great experience with them. I’m actually about to buy my first gen 2 PST.

Cameraland has a demo Kahles 624i in the classifieds for $2200. Just saying. That scope has always been my breaking point. I’ve drove to SWFA three times now to buy it and can’t bring myself to do it.

I’ve had two PST gen 1s. I sold the 6-24 without ever firing a shot just due to circumstances. I am pretty positive the next owner used it but had to send it in for an issue. I still have a 2.5-10x32. While it has so far tracked correctly, there is a glitch/really tight spot in the elevation turret. Is it going to break when I need it most? So two scopes, arguably 100% failure rate. Contrast with my Bushnell Elite Tactical (same $ as the gen 1 PST) which I’ve got ~300 rounds under. It has never given me an issue, has tracked 100% so far, and has better eye relief and glass.

So while I cannot speak to the Crossfire, I feel I can somewhat speak to Vortex quality. I doubt I’ll own another ever unless their rep improves. If the Crossfire fits your budget and needs, feel free to proceed, but I’d go Nikon, Burris, Bushnell, Weaver, maybe even Redfield in that price range first.

You are right, they are apples and oranges. The point was wanting reliability.

For the same money as a Viper PST, I would spend it on a Burris XTR II. They loaned me one for a year, and I wrote a review. It rode on an LR-308, in the truck, tractor, side by side, carried, slid under fences after hogs, and took some bruises. It never broke down. They asked for it back, and I obliged. I think I will buy one to go back on that rifle.

You don’t even know for sure the new owner had issues and yours hasn’t had any yet and you say they have 100% failure rate. That makes no sense. Sounds like someone convinced you it wasn’t a good scope and you sold it without ever using it.

One thing I have come to realize with scopes is that people take others opinions of them into their own account. Saying something has better glass is so objective and often nothing but opinion.

See and I have had the exact opposite experience with Burris. It wasn’t an XTR but I had an MTAC that I couldn’t get on paper at 50 yards. I then realized that the scope tube was deformed when I took it off the mount. I use a wheeler F.A.T. Wrench and torque everything to spec and yet that scope was defective from the moment I mounted it.

I also had a fullfield once that was defective as well.

That’s what I am talking about. People have difffernet experiences with scopes and you can find a defective scope in any scope brands. In my experience Burris has had a 67% failure rate for me. Just because that happened doesn’t mean Burris sucks. Most of the time they are great.

The way this conversation is going, I have had better luck with Tasco's cheapest than anybody in this thread has had with anything else at all.

Just curious how "the nut behind the trigger" can be held accountable for a scope that won't track or maintain/hold zero? Some of you Vortex guys need to go to 24HCF and PM Formid about Vortex scopes, or any scopes for that matter, He's the guy that tests optics/rifles, etc for the US DOD and sees over 500,000 rds a YEAR sent down range. I can't speak for the guy, but the only Vortex scope worth owning is the Razor, along with NF, SWFA, and Bushnell LRHS. He's had numerous failures from every other scope brand including the top $$$ alpha stuff.

Ai

I'm not a Vortex guy. I am just on a Vortex budget... not even that, really.

You don't think the proficiency of the user is more important than the gear?

I'd love to see how long a bundled scope would last in that test.

I am tracking that the Vortex Razor PST is the only Vortex that passed the military test. So that makes sense.

This whole thread is just getting too personal.

I have taken that into account, as well. The numbers still don’t add up, for me.

Ask 603Country on here, he is the person I sold the 6-24 to and I am about 90% positive he made a comment about sending it in. I sold it because the rifle underneath it went in for work for several months and I never got a chance to shoot the combo. 603 posted wanting to buy one, I was willing to part with it rather than have it sit for a while.

Ask FJG about the 2.5-10. I brought it to his place on top of my .308. We shot my 6.5 for a while and then took some shots with the .308. He was calling the changes. On at least two different targets out of ten, I tried to dial up the necessary correction and the turret jammed. Both times, by backing it off a couple of mils, it would proceed past the tight spot and the correction appeared to be accurate, but is that in your opinion 100% functionality? What happens when it either breaks and won't make the correction, or jams and won't back off? If I'm in the middle of a match or dialing to pop a coyote, dealing with that jam may cost me the shot.

While I never fired it, I had the 6-24 out a couple of times at the range. The eye relief was acceptable for most of the mag range but would tighten up at the upper end-if I was putting in on a magnum it would give me pause about getting scoped. My range is in a shadow of a treeline, and even with the proper parallax there is no doubt it was not as clear and bright as the Bushnell I replaced it with.

David Tubb has won more Camp Perry's than anyone, ever. Like 12+ of them. Do you think he can win one with a scope that doesn't hold zero?

Probably not. But I bet he could beat the pants of the average guy on the street, with a scope that shifts 1/4 moa on every shot. Especially shooting off hand.

You and DH must be brothers.

There are many decaffeinated brands on the market with as much flavor as the real thing. Just sayin' ...