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Mar 25th, 2012
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Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue #7436185 02/17/19 04:11 AM
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I see many on here looking for a lease for next year and it makes me ponder, is there an all time low supply of deer leases out there for the number of hunters looking? If not, is it a matter of ranchers not overly advertising their available ranches or something entirely different? What say you all?

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436199 02/17/19 04:59 AM
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Great questions. Maybe supply of guided hunts is so high that its pulling demand away from leasing outright. Just a speculation though.


Thank You,

JW
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436203 02/17/19 05:13 AM
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I think one of the bigger problems is that land prices have gone up so much over the last 10-15 years that people who buy land want to hunt it themselves rather than lease it out, or they don't need the money and don't want the hassle.

People want to pay $1500 a year to hunt a million dollar property. Most people who can afford to pay that much for land don't need the $1500 and the headaches. Most hunting land leases are far too cheap compared to what land costs these days.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436208 02/17/19 05:48 AM
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Everyday there are 2500 acres lost to urban sprawl. Granted not all of them are hunting acreages, but as people want that small ranchito, larger ranches and farms are subdivided into non hunting tracks. But in the end that is the same as 365 leases per year lost.


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Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436230 02/17/19 09:34 AM
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Sincerely, I do not understand why some States preserved tracks of prime land for the good of all (State Parks), and some States did not, and refuse to.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436235 02/17/19 10:14 AM
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More dollars chasing the same land. Lots of boomers’ with money want a ranch.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: Chris42] #7436238 02/17/19 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris42
More dollars chasing the same land. Lots of boomers’ with money want a ranch.


“Ranch.”


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Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436239 02/17/19 11:53 AM
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Price of leases has to be high enough that it's worth it to the landowner, whatever that might be. Folks die, places get split up among heirs or heirs sell and with the price of land as it is then leasing may not bring enough to hassle with. I know guys with land that make so much off the oil they have no interest in leasing to hunters.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: Sneaky] #7436249 02/17/19 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Sneaky
Originally Posted by Chris42
More dollars chasing the same land. Lots of boomers’ with money want a ranch.


“Ranch.”



Yea they buy 125 acres and have a gate built with XXXXX Ranch....LOL

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DocHorton] #7436256 02/17/19 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DocHorton
I think one of the bigger problems is that land prices have gone up so much over the last 10-15 years that people who buy land want to hunt it themselves rather than lease it out, or they don't need the money and don't want the hassle.

People want to pay $1500 a year to hunt a million dollar property. Most people who can afford to pay that much for land don't need the $1500 and the headaches. Most hunting land leases are far too cheap compared to what land costs these days.



As a landowner, I agree with this assessment.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436262 02/17/19 01:25 PM
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I know of several places that have gotten out of the lease market. A couple in South Texas that the oil money coming in has made it where they do not need the lease money. One where they got tired of the people wanting too much access to the property off season. One close to here the owner died and was sold then split up. I personally think times are changing and owners don't want people they don't really know having access to their property. Years ago I leased this property to 3 individuals. When they were here they seemed to think they owned it and I didn't. Cows or Sheep or me ruining their hunt. I found I could just about make as much off the Deer by doing what I do now. Sell the deer by the Head. Bucks at a certain price by the point and Does at a certain price. For about 11 months out of the year nobody is here but me,

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: snake oil] #7436269 02/17/19 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by snake oil
Originally Posted by Sneaky
Originally Posted by Chris42
More dollars chasing the same land. Lots of boomers’ with money want a ranch.


“Ranch.”



Yea they buy 125 acres and have a gate built with XXXXX Ranch....LOL


Agreed. But this has been a point of contention on here - let a man call his land what he wants, yada, yada. I get a man being proud of whatever he can afford and fulfilling his dream, etc.

My dad did it in 1968. But no ostentatious entrance and he didn't go around puffing out his chest and announcing that he has "a ranch in the Hill Country", like so many do. (Some on here.) It was a 163 acre small farm that we called, albeit not too creative, "The Farm".

We did it across the road in 1997. We always tried to get to know our neighbors, "fit in", respect the history of the area, etc. And then we were surrounded by "ego farmers"; brash, arrogant tools that are all about themselves and getting what they want. One guy put together 70 acres, built his road to wind around all over the place to make it "feel" bigger, had the creek worked on (really screwing up the flow), for one solid year, built his new house 25 yards off my fence line (so you see it as you drive up to my house), and actually got upset when I was having fence replaced that I didn't allow HIS dozer operator "shape" MY field the way HE wanted it to look.

After 21 years, and 50 in the area, we've sold, with txtrophy85's help. It's dam emotional, but the right thing to do for us. We are looking west and hopefully will be able to afford something bigger. I ain't no rancher; last relative to run cattle seriously was 4 generations ago and that terrible war between the states pretty much ruined him. 'Might try to do the wildlife exemption route. I won't be leasing out the hunting. Which, I believe, proves the above hypothesis.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436279 02/17/19 02:00 PM
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Great stuff guys, I think it is a combination of all of this and even a bit more. Keep them coming...

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: The Zen Master] #7436336 02/17/19 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by The Zen Master
Sincerely, I do not understand why some States preserved tracks of prime land for the good of all (State Parks), and some States did not, and refuse to.


If this is a reference to Texas at all, it was never a state issue. Most of Texas was in private hands when it won Independence from Mexico and became its own country. 10 years later, it entered the US as a state.
http://legacy.lib.utexas.edu/maps/atlas_texas/texas_land_grants.jpg
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/mpl01


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Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: TX Hitman] #7436339 02/17/19 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TX Hitman
Originally Posted by DocHorton
I think one of the bigger problems is that land prices have gone up so much over the last 10-15 years that people who buy land want to hunt it themselves rather than lease it out, or they don't need the money and don't want the hassle.

People want to pay $1500 a year to hunt a million dollar property. Most people who can afford to pay that much for land don't need the $1500 and the headaches. Most hunting land leases are far too cheap compared to what land costs these days.



As a landowner, I agree with this assessment.


+1 as a landowner.
Why in heck would I want a bunch of guys I probably don’t know running all over my place 24/7/365 for 10 or 15 grand a year? Totally defeats the purpose of buying the land in the first place.

I think you add in DC’s post and you have the complete answer.


Originally Posted By: Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7436355 02/17/19 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by TX Hitman
Originally Posted by DocHorton
I think one of the bigger problems is that land prices have gone up so much over the last 10-15 years that people who buy land want to hunt it themselves rather than lease it out, or they don't need the money and don't want the hassle.

People want to pay $1500 a year to hunt a million dollar property. Most people who can afford to pay that much for land don't need the $1500 and the headaches. Most hunting land leases are far too cheap compared to what land costs these days.



As a landowner, I agree with this assessment.


+1 as a landowner.
Why in heck would I want a bunch of guys I probably don’t know running all over my place 24/7/365 for 10 or 15 grand a year? Totally defeats the purpose of buying the land in the first place.

I think you add in DC’s post and you have the complete answer.


Increased liability is probably in the hassle mix as well.


Dan,

Spring, Texas
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436358 02/17/19 03:29 PM
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There are more than enough leases to go around. The problem is unrealistic expectations from the people looking to lease the land.

How many times have yall seen this on the forum:

"Looking for a year round lease for me, my wife, and 6 kids, and a few buddies. Needs to be within 2 hours of DFW. Trophy bucks a must, pigs and exotics would be nice also. I love to duck hunt and so do my kids so need several ponds on the place. It would be nice if those ponds have trophy Bass also. Not willing to pay more than $1k per gun. Place needs to be over 1K acres with no more than 3 guns on it because I don't want to feel crowded when I bring all my kids and buddies with me. I don't have time to build stands or fill feeders so looking for a turn key place with all that done for me in advance. Cabin with electricity and water a must as well. We are a very trustworthy mob of people and will leave the land better than we find it, we just wont leave many critters on it when we leave. Please let me know what you have. Thanks!"

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: JCB] #7436396 02/17/19 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
There are more than enough leases to go around. The problem is unrealistic expectations from the people looking to lease the land.

How many times have yall seen this on the forum:

"Looking for a year round lease for me, my wife, and 6 kids, and a few buddies. Needs to be within 2 hours of DFW. Trophy bucks a must, pigs and exotics would be nice also. I love to duck hunt and so do my kids so need several ponds on the place. It would be nice if those ponds have trophy Bass also. Not willing to pay more than $1k per gun. Place needs to be over 1K acres with no more than 3 guns on it because I don't want to feel crowded when I bring all my kids and buddies with me. I don't have time to build stands or fill feeders so looking for a turn key place with all that done for me in advance. Cabin with electricity and water a must as well. We are a very trustworthy mob of people and will leave the land better than we find it, we just wont leave many critters on it when we leave. Please let me know what you have. Thanks!"


Lmao! Yep.


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Never been to a camping world. I prefer Dick's to be honest.
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: Texas Dan] #7436436 02/17/19 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by TX Hitman
Originally Posted by DocHorton
I think one of the bigger problems is that land prices have gone up so much over the last 10-15 years that people who buy land want to hunt it themselves rather than lease it out, or they don't need the money and don't want the hassle.

People want to pay $1500 a year to hunt a million dollar property. Most people who can afford to pay that much for land don't need the $1500 and the headaches. Most hunting land leases are far too cheap compared to what land costs these days.



As a landowner, I agree with this assessment.


+1 as a landowner.
Why in heck would I want a bunch of guys I probably don’t know running all over my place 24/7/365 for 10 or 15 grand a year? Totally defeats the purpose of buying the land in the first place.

I think you add in DC’s post and you have the complete answer.


Increased liability is probably in the hassle mix as well.


You can sue for any thing but Texas ag tourism law pretty much shuts down the liability


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Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436438 02/17/19 05:01 PM
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There is "X" amount of land in Texas. Over 500,000 people a year are moving into Texas. Many ranches are being sold to new owners who either remove the existing hunters through pricing or retain the hunting for themselves. Although we see this frequently on the forum we are probably seeing only a small number of the total transactions. That obviously results in people looking for new leases.

Many landowners or lease brokeers are puttling too many people per acre on the property that results in overshooting and problems around the campfire. I am not faulting landowners, just making an observation. More emphasis is being placed on "trophy hunting" that leads to people looking for the ultimate lease (which is very difficult to find).

I do not agree with the comment "there are more than enough leases to go around" but I do believe there is a shortage of "good, not great" leases that results in disillusioned hunters to seek out better properties. I have done that.

All the above examples, and several that have been mentioned in above posts, have resulted in the current demand for hunting leases. My overall observation for people looking for leases is to be aware that lease prices have increased more than it appears many people are aware based on some of the expectations set forth by people who are looking for a lease. While they do exist, it may very well be unrealistic to expect to pay less than $2000 for a spot on a lease that has a reasonble gun to acre ratio.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436452 02/17/19 05:17 PM
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I see this all the time....4 Hunters want a lease 2 hrs drive from Houston/Dallas/Austin. Must have cabin/water/electricity/TV and covered parking for vehicles. All blinds must be walking distance from cabin and come supplied with heaters and A/C's. Landowner furnishes corn and keeps feeders operating year round.
We will pay up to $250 each for a year round lease. Our class reads the bible!

PM what you have!


Old age and treachery beats youth and stupid every time!
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436546 02/17/19 07:03 PM
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There are people who indicate they are looking for a lease on this forum who are not really looking at all. I don't know if they just want to talk about it are just take part in the conversation. That is my experience after posting the need for a hunter to fill a lease a time or two. Hopefully my situation is the exception rather than the rule.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436618 02/17/19 09:01 PM
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The whole leases available vs folks looking thing is multifaceted.
Seriously, several dozen legitimate reasons why they seem or are harder to come by, I don't believe there is a 'top ten' of answers.

Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: DQ Kid] #7436623 02/17/19 09:10 PM
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I just lost mine...sold to be subdivided.


Originally Posted By: Chief Joe
I avoid Dick's and hope they fold.
Re: Is it Purely a Supply vs Demand Issue [Re: Wilhunt] #7436641 02/17/19 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilhunt
There are people who indicate they are looking for a lease on this forum who are not really looking at all. I don't know if they just want to talk about it are just take part in the conversation. That is my experience after posting the need for a hunter to fill a lease a time or two. Hopefully my situation is the exception rather than the rule.

Yep, I had some "tire kickers" from here too! Had to rethink my whole process. Had an opening last year that I just ate the cost to save the hassle.

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