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Mar 25th, 2012
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Bedding in front of recoil lug? #7430108
02/10/19 09:08 PM
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The guy that beds my actions always tries to talk me into extending the bedding compound a couple inches down the barrel. On his sporter rifles, he beds the entire length of the stock from the rear of the action to the end of the forearm. I like my barrels to be completely free-floated. Anybody have any experience with bedding past the lug?


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7430117
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Yes. Almost every barrel that I have shot that had bedding compound forward of the recoil lug had consistency issues when the barrel heats up. I have had customers bring me rifles with the barrel bedded 1"-2" forward of the recoil lug. I have seen some rifles with the barrel bedded all the way the entire length of the stock. They all had one thing in common- they would start to walk around and throw shots after the barrel heated up. This full bedding method stems from the older military rifles that had a long forend wood stock with a barrel band. Bedding the full length was very common. In modern bolt action rifles, bedding forward of the recoil lug only causes another contact point to cause the barrel to have pressure on when it heats up. I have taken some of these rifles apart and taken a Dremmel wheel to the bedding area to free float the barrel. Almost all of them shot better after this. Some needed a new bedding job due to the area removed was the main pressure point.

Bedding forward of the recoil lug is an old school method, and I have debated this on several occasions with some old school gun smith's. Free floating a barrel on a modern bolt action rifle is the way to go.



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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7430126
02/10/19 09:33 PM
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No bedding forward of the front edge of the recoil lug.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7430563
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Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
The guy that beds my actions always tries to talk me into extending the bedding compound a couple inches down the barrel. On his sporter rifles, he beds the entire length of the stock from the rear of the action to the end of the forearm. I like my barrels to be completely free-floated. Anybody have any experience with bedding past the lug?


On wood stocked sporters bedding full length stiffens the forearm up nicely and will keep it from warping in and out of humidity. Two layers of masking tape forward of the recoil lug when you bed keeps the barrel floated.about how I like it.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431180
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bedding in front strengthens bedding behind. Float in front with tape on barrel. That's how I do it.

Some 'smiths do bed in full and it works. I don't know how they do that.


trying to figure out Rio gobbler and javelina hunts in TX
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431202
02/11/19 08:38 PM
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I just did my own for the first time on an hs stock with a savage. Maybe nothing to some but it was a big deal to me and I read everything I could on the topic. Even though I relieved some extra material in front of the recoil lug and filled it with bedding, I taped a couple of layers from the nut forward. My bedding goes about 1.5" in front of the lug but it's all floated there. In fact, I put clay in the teeth of the barrel but before wrapping tape because I wanted to make double sure there's no contact.

In my mind and reasoning ability, if you believe in the theory that repeatable barrel harmonics is a big key to accuracy then free floating everything in front of the lug makes the most sense (i.e. touching the whole barreled action as minimally as possible). Unfortunately my claims are only theoretical since I haven't even shot the thing yet or in general have skills.

Last edited by Korean Redneck; 02/11/19 08:40 PM.
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: howl] #7431229
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Originally Posted by howl
bedding in front strengthens bedding behind. Float in front with tape on barrel. That's how I do it.

Some 'smiths do bed in full and it works. I don't know how they do that.


Just so there's no confusion.

Bedding in front of the lug with tape on the barrel is still free-floating the forearm of the stock, but making the stock stiffer. In that case, the bedding can go all the way to the tip of the forearm. Remove the tape, and there's a gap between barrel, and forearm.

Bedding recoil lug and back, the action is in full contact with bedding, bedding is adhered to stock.

I've seen many a rifle that wasn't shooting well, and after clearing out the forearm from the recoil lug forward, the rifle shot much better.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431235
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I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: redchevy] #7431246
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Originally Posted by redchevy
I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.



The structural response is based on the question of the shear strength in lamination between the bedding material and the parent material, similar to welding. The bedding compound for sure is stronger than fiberglas or wood. Rigidity is a question of bending moment resistance. So long as the bedding compound is "stickier" to the wood or fiberglass than the internal shear strength of each material, technically it should aid in rigidity not giving you a weak point at the threshold between bedding an parent metal. Then you get full strength of the material in all directions.
The magnitude of the effect will be a function of the thickness/depth of the bedding compound. You can do cross sectional moment of inertia analysis and factor in dissimilar material responses to bending moment just in one direction as a function of the length of the stock.

Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431253
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I think I understand what your saying. My thoughts towards it are your not going to be getting a very thick coat and thus not changing much. Not worth it in my mind.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: redchevy] #7431254
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Originally Posted by redchevy
I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.


Have a nice old Winchester model 70 with sweet walnut stock. The Combination of humidity and heavy use carrying it on a sling, resulted in contact between the barrel and forearm on one side. Hogged out the barrel channel. Bedded full length with two layers of masking tape on the barrel, forward of the recoil lug. Problem solved over a decade ago. I don't know how much strength it added but it was enough for my purposes.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: redchevy] #7431279
02/11/19 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
I think I understand what your saying. My thoughts towards it are your not going to be getting a very thick coat and thus not changing much. Not worth it in my mind.


That's where you remove some of the stock, to make room for bedding compound.

Exactly what K.R. said about a weld. On thick materials each part is beveled out to make room for a good weld.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431356
02/11/19 10:53 PM
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Just in the interest of confusion, some of these flimsy stocks get flimsier if you add epoxy or whatever else to the forend to make it stiff. The problem can be that making the forend stiff enough to not flex, makes it a lever that flexes the stock material aft of the lug; usually around the magazine well. If there's a point to this, it may be that bedding a rifle isn't necessarily one-size-fits-all and there's more than one way to do it.


trying to figure out Rio gobbler and javelina hunts in TX
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431369
02/11/19 11:11 PM
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^^^^^ Agree

Had a Sako years ago that the forearm warped a little and its normal accuracy went to pot.. I removed enough material to freefloat the barrel and accuracy returned. Then I glas bedded the action and forearm after taking a router to the forearm giving it at least 1/8 inch of bedding compound with quared area along the sides at the bottom. I used 3 layers of tape on the entire barrel when bedding to ensure free float. Result the rifle shot better after than it ever had. Sold that rifle to purchase something else (mistake) and last time I talked with who I sold it to he said it is still shooting great.

Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: howl] #7431391
02/11/19 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by howl
Just in the interest of confusion, some of these flimsy stocks get flimsier if you add epoxy or whatever else to the forend to make it stiff. The problem can be that making the forend stiff enough to not flex, makes it a lever that flexes the stock material aft of the lug; usually around the magazine well. If there's a point to this, it may be that bedding a rifle isn't necessarily one-size-fits-all and there's more than one way to do it.


I would not bed in the forearm, and NOT bed the action area, for the very reason you mentioned. Working on the forearm is secondary to the action bedding, IMO.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: Korean Redneck] #7431404
02/11/19 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
Originally Posted by redchevy
I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.



The structural response is based on the question of the shear strength in lamination between the bedding material and the parent material, similar to welding. The bedding compound for sure is stronger than fiberglas or wood. Rigidity is a question of bending moment resistance. So long as the bedding compound is "stickier" to the wood or fiberglass than the internal shear strength of each material, technically it should aid in rigidity not giving you a weak point at the threshold between bedding an parent metal. Then you get full strength of the material in all directions.
The magnitude of the effect will be a function of the thickness/depth of the bedding compound. You can do cross sectional moment of inertia analysis and factor in dissimilar material responses to bending moment just in one direction as a function of the length of the stock.



Jeeze Louise. You an engineer, KR?


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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431443
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Yes he is. I can follow him.

Do you need me to translate to Redneck? I can do that too.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: FiremanJG] #7431480
02/12/19 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Yes he is. I can follow him.

Do you need me to translate to Redneck? I can do that too.


No, f-stick. I just pride myself on my profiling skills. I bet he's also good at math and drives really, really, slow too.


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Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431488
02/12/19 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Yes he is. I can follow him.

Do you need me to translate to Redneck? I can do that too.


No, f-stick. I just pride myself on my profiling skills. I bet he's also good at math and drives really, really, slow too.


Why you mad?


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: ImTheReasonDovesMourn] #7431541
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I've never full length bedded anything, but I've always bedded the action to about 1" forward of the lug. I've also noticed that my McWhorter custom and Hill Country Rifle are both bedded this was as well. I also like pillars. The T3X has support about 3" forward of the lug as well.

Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: FiremanJG] #7431703
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Yes he is. I can follow him.

Do you need me to translate to Redneck? I can do that too.


No, f-stick. I just pride myself on my profiling skills. I bet he's also good at math and drives really, really, slow too.


Why you mad?


House full of flu.


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: FiremanJG] #7431745
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by howl
Just in the interest of confusion, some of these flimsy stocks get flimsier if you add epoxy or whatever else to the forend to make it stiff. The problem can be that making the forend stiff enough to not flex, makes it a lever that flexes the stock material aft of the lug; usually around the magazine well. If there's a point to this, it may be that bedding a rifle isn't necessarily one-size-fits-all and there's more than one way to do it.


I would not bed in the forearm, and NOT bed the action area, for the very reason you mentioned. Working on the forearm is secondary to the action bedding, IMO.

Bedding the action doesn't help a whole lot when the side of the stock pull it away from the action when there is pressure on the forend.


trying to figure out Rio gobbler and javelina hunts in TX
Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: Korean Redneck] #7431892
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is this about bedding a plastic or wood stock,
Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
Originally Posted by redchevy
I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.



The structural response is based on the question of the shear strength in lamination between the bedding material and the parent material, similar to welding. The bedding compound for sure is stronger than fiberglas or wood. Rigidity is a question of bending moment resistance. So long as the bedding compound is "stickier" to the wood or fiberglass than the internal shear strength of each material, technically it should aid in rigidity not giving you a weak point at the threshold between bedding an parent metal. Then you get full strength of the material in all directions.
The magnitude of the effect will be a function of the thickness/depth of the bedding compound. You can do cross sectional moment of inertia analysis and factor in dissimilar material responses to bending moment just in one direction as a function of the length of the stock.


i have a solution that makes wood solid as a rock, so to speak. i can see a delamination problem with plastics when using a bedding compound especially if surface prep is insufficient. molded stocks have got to use a mold release agent that i could also see causing adhesion problems. and what about the additional weight? me personally, plastic has no business on a rifle other than a bb gun, i prefer a wood stock


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Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: spankyttx] #7431980
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Originally Posted by 2Beez
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by ImTheReasonDovesMourn
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Yes he is. I can follow him.

Do you need me to translate to Redneck? I can do that too.


No, f-stick. I just pride myself on my profiling skills. I bet he's also good at math and drives really, really, slow too.


Why you mad?


House full of flu.


Haha Both you guys are 100%, especially the drive slow portion now. But that's because of 2 small kids and i hate paying for tickets and insurance.

Originally Posted by spankyttx
is this about bedding a plastic or wood stock,
Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
Originally Posted by redchevy
I would be interested to know just how much strength and rigidity is added to a stock by bedding/coating the fore end in bedding compound/epoxy. I wouldn't think much, nor would I recommend bedding in front of the lug.



The structural response is based on the question of the shear strength in lamination between the bedding material and the parent material, similar to welding. The bedding compound for sure is stronger than fiberglas or wood. Rigidity is a question of bending moment resistance. So long as the bedding compound is "stickier" to the wood or fiberglass than the internal shear strength of each material, technically it should aid in rigidity not giving you a weak point at the threshold between bedding an parent metal. Then you get full strength of the material in all directions.
The magnitude of the effect will be a function of the thickness/depth of the bedding compound. You can do cross sectional moment of inertia analysis and factor in dissimilar material responses to bending moment just in one direction as a function of the length of the stock.


i have a solution that makes wood solid as a rock, so to speak. i can see a delamination problem with plastics when using a bedding compound especially if surface prep is insufficient. molded stocks have got to use a mold release agent that i could also see causing adhesion problems. and what about the additional weight? me personally, plastic has no business on a rifle other than a bb gun, i prefer a wood stock


Agreed. i want to try bedding the length of a crappy molded stock but I also know plan on relying on a mechanical connection and not a chemical one. Also want to incorporate a little steel rod but it's not like i invented this idea. God bless Youtube University.

Re: Bedding in front of recoil lug? [Re: Korean Redneck] #7431983
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Originally Posted by Korean Redneck
God bless Youtube University.

up


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