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Expectations #7416185 01/27/19 02:35 PM
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DQ Kid Offline OP
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I see a lot of movement of hunters from/to new leases and ranches early this season, maybe more so than prior. I know for many this was a difficult season with lots of rain and a very abundant supply of natural groceries for the deer to dine in. Having been on both the lease and now land owner side of the equation over my 40+ years of hunting, as a leasee in deep South Texas and owner the past 10 years in NW TX, do we think the movements could be more a deeper introspection into ourselves more than anything else? Possibly a very real look into our deep expectations as a hunter, legit or otherwise? As for myself, when we leased reasonable priced South Texas properties, our goals were to annually see adequate amounts of good deer, not great Boomers, knowing we did not come in the high side of the price equation. Additionally in season and maybe just outside, we expected unfettered access to said property but certainly not the "full run" of the place with a mutual respect rendered from and to said landowner. I have to admit that I do laugh sometimes internally when I see what hunters on the THF expect with a $1500-$3000 annual lease payment in terms of deer quality and land access. Am I on to something here, what Sat the Forum???

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416189 01/27/19 02:37 PM
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Say the Forum?

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416192 01/27/19 02:49 PM
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I say I should be able to hunt anywhere, anytime on anybodys property I dang so choose for Free grin

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Last edited by Stub; 01/27/19 02:49 PM.

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Re: Expectations [Re: Stub] #7416193 01/27/19 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Stub
I say I should be able to hunt anywhere, anytime on anybodys property I dang so choose for Free grin

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Just be prepared to share it then.....

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416230 01/27/19 03:44 PM
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like everything else in this world deer lease cost are driven by the market - if a LO can get their price from a willing buyer (leaser) then more power to them. If nobody is willing to pay their price then they either lower it or do not lease it. Welcome to America.

when I see folks complain about the cost of a lease I laugh - I remember my Dad in the 1950s complaining that their lease land owner went up from $150 to $175 a gun for the coming season. It is all relative.


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Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416237 01/27/19 03:50 PM
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It is what it is. No problem, hunting packages are still cost effective options.

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416258 01/27/19 04:34 PM
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Most likely I don't understand the conversation you're starting.
The price of all forms of recreation has increased over the years, the cost of the typical recreational / hunting lease has not kept pace with the price increases of any other type of outdoor recreational activities.
Trophy & those with desirable amenities type leases have done slightly better but for the most part are still a good value.
The list of examples is almost endless & would surely take your thread off topic into argumentitive territory.

I beilve one of biggest factors is too many hunters on too few acres leads to disappointment and the desire to move on to a supposedly better place. If your goal is to kill a truley mature buck every year sustainably you need substantialy more acreage than most hunters are willing to believe, especially in counties within a couple hours of many major cities.

Another factor is lands once used as hunting leases being removed from the lease pool.
The whole expectation thing, lease cost is an access fee, you pay your money you take your chances.






Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416265 01/27/19 04:39 PM
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Why I believe things associated with leasing have changed is because times have changed.Some people now do not have the same morals or whatever you want to call it as they did in years past. Not true for everyone but those few have screwed things up for a lot of other folks. Now if you gave unfettered access to someone you would be giving them a blank check on dealing with your property. And like everything else sometimes you don't realize what you have gotten yourself into until it is too late. And look at it from the other side. If you owned the property would you lease it? If you did would you want those that leased it the right to come there anytime and with no limit on the amount of times. Sometimes things look a little different when the shoe is on the other foot.

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416294 01/27/19 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DQ Kid
Originally Posted by Stub
I say I should be able to hunt anywhere, anytime on anybodys property I dang so choose for Free grin

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Just be prepared to share it then.....


What share??? All kidding aside there are people that think that way nuts


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Re: Expectations [Re: Rustler] #7416422 01/27/19 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Rustler
Most likely I don't understand the conversation you're starting.
The price of all forms of recreation has increased over the years, the cost of the typical recreational / hunting lease has not kept pace with the price increases of any other type of outdoor recreational activities.
Trophy & those with desirable amenities type leases have done slightly better but for the most part are still a good value.
The list of examples is almost endless & would surely take your thread off topic into argumentitive territory.

I beilve one of biggest factors is too many hunters on too few acres leads to disappointment and the desire to move on to a supposedly better place. If your goal is to kill a truley mature buck every year sustainably you need substantialy more acreage than most hunters are willing to believe, especially in counties within a couple hours of many major cities.

Another factor is lands once used as hunting leases being removed from the lease pool.
The whole expectation thing, lease cost is an access fee, you pay your money you take your chances.






Some great insights Rustler...

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416432 01/27/19 09:55 PM
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Deer leases used to be just for deer season.

Then everybody started using feeders, & now wanted access to fill feeders year round.

Then hogs started hitting all the feeders; now hunters wanna hunt hogs year round.

Then everybody got feeders, stands, a Polaris, travel trailer. Then they got thermals, NV, drones, etc.

The nature of leasing land for recreational hunting has drastically changed the last 20 years.

I also enjoy hearing hunters piss & moan about lease costs, sitting in their $15,000 Polaris, with $10,000 worth of rifles & NV, parked in front of their $10,000 travel trailer, looking for a $1,500 deer lease.

Last edited by maximus_flavius; 01/27/19 09:56 PM.
Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416435 01/27/19 09:57 PM
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When everyone figures out how much a deer lease is actually worth, theyíll be paying 10x what they are now.

Re: Expectations [Re: maximus_flavius] #7416498 01/27/19 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Deer leases used to be just for deer season.

Then everybody started using feeders, & now wanted access to fill feeders year round.

Then hogs started hitting all the feeders; now hunters wanna hunt hogs year round.

Then everybody got feeders, stands, a Polaris, travel trailer. Then they got thermals, NV, drones, etc.

The nature of leasing land for recreational hunting has drastically changed the last 20 years.

I also enjoy hearing hunters piss & moan about lease costs, sitting in their $15,000 Polaris, with $10,000 worth of rifles & NV, parked in front of their $10,000 travel trailer, looking for a $1,500 deer lease.

Lots of truth here Max ..

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416515 01/28/19 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by DQ Kid
Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Deer leases used to be just for deer season.

Then everybody started using feeders, & now wanted access to fill feeders year round.

Then hogs started hitting all the feeders; now hunters wanna hunt hogs year round.

Then everybody got feeders, stands, a Polaris, travel trailer. Then they got thermals, NV, drones, etc.

The nature of leasing land for recreational hunting has drastically changed the last 20 years.

I also enjoy hearing hunters piss & moan about lease costs, sitting in their $15,000 Polaris, with $10,000 worth of rifles & NV, parked in front of their $10,000 travel trailer, looking for a $1,500 deer lease.

Lots of truth here Max ..

yup


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Re: Expectations [Re: maximus_flavius] #7416526 01/28/19 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Deer leases used to be just for deer season.

Then everybody started using feeders, & now wanted access to fill feeders year round.

Then hogs started hitting all the feeders; now hunters wanna hunt hogs year round.

Then everybody got feeders, stands, a Polaris, travel trailer. Then they got thermals, NV, drones, etc.

The nature of leasing land for recreational hunting has drastically changed the last 20 years.

I also enjoy hearing hunters piss & moan about lease costs, sitting in their $15,000 Polaris, with $10,000 worth of rifles & NV, parked in front of their $10,000 travel trailer, looking for a $1,500 deer lease.

They now hunt deer, turkey, hogs, predators, exotics, doves, ducks, quail and small game on a lot of leases. Throw in fishing and arrowheads and you have your standard year round lease. Break a lease fee down by animals hunted and they will really get sticker shock.



Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416546 01/28/19 01:06 AM
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All the land owner has to to do is express his rules for hunting his property....as he is putting those $ in his pocket.

Cannot expect the hunter to take any lease and not have high expectations. Have to be realistic, both hunter and landowner.

Re: Expectations [Re: stxranchman] #7416560 01/28/19 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Deer leases used to be just for deer season.

Then everybody started using feeders, & now wanted access to fill feeders year round.

Then hogs started hitting all the feeders; now hunters wanna hunt hogs year round.

Then everybody got feeders, stands, a Polaris, travel trailer. Then they got thermals, NV, drones, etc.

The nature of leasing land for recreational hunting has drastically changed the last 20 years.

I also enjoy hearing hunters piss & moan about lease costs, sitting in their $15,000 Polaris, with $10,000 worth of rifles & NV, parked in front of their $10,000 travel trailer, looking for a $1,500 deer lease.

They now hunt deer, turkey, hogs, predators, exotics, doves, ducks, quail and small game on a lot of leases. Throw in fishing and arrowheads and you have your standard year round lease. Break a lease fee down by animals hunted and they will really get sticker shock.


exactly - we pay a load of money for our lease. But in our case the LO does ALL of the labor. Feeders and stands all in place. They order protein, cottonseed and corn and put it all out for us. They bulldoze the roads and maintain the property. They do not run cows or have oil field traffic, They keep poachers off the property. They fly the property once a year to do the survey. The mess with us during the season when we ask for help on aging a deer etc.

In our case it is total respect from each side - LO respects that we follow their rules and help them manage the ranch. So as the saying goes "you get what you pay for" - if a person wants a $1000 lease no problem - just be prepared to deal with what you paid for

Last edited by tlk; 01/28/19 01:52 AM.

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Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416832 01/28/19 02:25 PM
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Letís look at my arrangement. I hunt on 5400 acres with year round access and guest allowances.

I have access as if it were my land. Can bring my family and friends. Allowed one trophy and all the hogs, dove, quail and varmits I desire. 3 does to fill the freezer. I pay 4500.00 a year plus feed costs. Sounds expensive huh?

How much do you think it would cost me to own, maintain and pay taxes on 5400 acres?

Much cheaper for me to lease. No comparison.

I can never be happy hunting a couple hundred acres. It would cost me more to own than I pay now.

To me, the hunting is the icing on the cake.

Last edited by Pitchfork Predator; 01/28/19 02:32 PM.

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Re: Expectations [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #7416852 01/28/19 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
Letís look at my arrangement. I hunt on 5400 acres with year round access and guest allowances.

I have access as if it were my land. Can bring my family and friends. Allowed one trophy and all the hogs, dove, quail and varmits I desire. 3 does to fill the freezer. I pay 4500.00 a year plus feed costs. Sounds expensive huh?

How much do you think it would cost me to own, maintain and pay taxes on 5400 acres?

Much cheaper for me to lease. No comparison.

I can never be happy hunting a couple hundred acres. It would cost me more to own than I pay now.

To me, the hunting is the icing on the cake.

Pitch, how many are leasing on that 5400?

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416858 01/28/19 02:50 PM
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I have several kids who hunt and who are interested in hunting, so I've shifted my focus on finding affordable (free is best) land options that keep us all in the woods. Sure, our expectations have to line up, but ultimately I want them to have plenty of options to be able to hunt regardless of financial situation. Our expectations have evolved and hunting has actually become even more fun as we constantly explore new hunting grounds and options. In the end we MIGHT spend more money of fuel and licenses, we don't have feed costs and lease cost is limited to the hunting club I'm a member of in Ohio (just me). We'll probably hunt four or five small farms next year with the largest being under 200 acres and twice that many public land areas with hundreds of thousands of acres to roam. We normally kill a good buck or two, but we will kill our share of does and have a blast either way. If we all measured success by killing mature bucks each year we might be disappointed (although one or two will certainly be killed), but each year gets better and better and more fun.

This is a good thread. Our expectations will be the single biggest factor in how much we enjoy hunting-that I'm confident of. I know SO MANY people who have focused so much on antlers rather than the hunting experience and have set their expectations so high that they can't afford to hunt regularly (or at all). I won't be that guy. My kids will have the ability to hunt (now and when they're grown) if they choose that's what they want to do.

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416909 01/28/19 03:28 PM
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Hunters come and go from our place yearly. Heck I even took a year off in 2017 and it does not get better than $6.25 an acre with what our land has to offer IMO.

People get busy with life and even though the lease fees can be fairly cheap the actual feed, fuel, and time spent can be overwhelming at times. My kids are getting to the age where they can be in the stand with me and one of them is hunting now so it's almost priceless to me.



Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416910 01/28/19 03:32 PM
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I think, the way the thread started, is what is the reasoning behind what he seems to see as a lot of lease jumping this year more than other years. It was a bad year for me- only saw two deer all season and that was the last weekend of muzzle loader season. Is it because we have become and instant gratification society? "I didn't see any deer this year so there must not be any so I will find another lease" mentality. If you stay on a property long you will have up and down years. I don't have to kill a deer every year but I would like to see some, but some years I see none. The same lease where I saw no deer this year I had five bucks under my bow stand opening weekend of bow season three years ago. The be all, end all for a lease doesn't have to equal an animal on the ground- it is what else comes with it. I am on two different leases that are reasonably priced, have opportunity/potential for good bucks (if that is all you are chasing), and close enough that I can hunt every weekend of season. That is all I can ask for-the rest is up to me to improve my chances of venison in the freezer.

Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416925 01/28/19 03:50 PM
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Never been a lease jumper. I hunted on 2 leases before we bought our own property. First one was 250 or so acres on the outskirts of town, we had year round access to maintain feeders/ blinds but hunting was only deer season only general season. We paid $225 a gun. After that I hunted a place between 700-800 acres in Kendall Co. Paid $350 a gun for 20 years pretty much the same hunting arrangement but we did get to shoot as many hogs as we could and occasionally exotics.

We got off the first lease because it sold and was developed. The second we got off of because we had bought hunting property and it was getting tuff to split time and resources between our land and our lease. Add to that the lady who owned the second lease passed away and it just never seemed the same. Her son took it over and we never had a cross word with either of them, true blessing of landowners to lease hunters, good simple honest old time people. We still talk to them now and meet up with them occasionally and invite them to stuff. They attended my wedding and I hope to still see them.


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Re: Expectations [Re: DQ Kid] #7416935 01/28/19 03:55 PM
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A Whitetail lease for me is nothing more then relatively close, safe, outside experience for my kids, to be kids and learn to hunt and respect the great outdoors. Itís a place for them to see other kids and women hunting and enjoying being outside. . Itís not about a deer anymore. If I really want a bigggg deer Iíll buy an opportunity. Think Iíve killed one hard horned buck in 10 years. I normally give my allotment to my Dad or Wife.


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Re: Expectations [Re: Stub] #7416963 01/28/19 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Stub
I say I should be able to hunt anywhere, anytime on anybodys property I dang so choose for Free grin

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Yeah! Let's go shoot up The Rancher's place!

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