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Mar 25th, 2012
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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: redchevy] #7401089
01/10/19 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.


Just my opinion, but with native genetics its 100% gamble what those fawns are going to come out like no matter if they were bread by a 150 inch 8 pt a 180 inch 12 pt or a spike buck. Shooting does keeps the numbers where you want/need them and the native genetics is going to produce what it is going to produce regardless of when you shoot your does. Also you will never know what doe was bread by the last or next up and coming super buck from the area.


May be a gamble what those fawns will be, but ones thing is for certain...….if you kill her before those fawns hit the ground you will 100% never know at all.

You can trim your numbers down before they are bred then you don't have to worry about if the biggest buck on your place bred that doe you just killed.

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: unclebubba] #7401100
01/10/19 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.

What if the doe that you shot early in the season was the doe that was giving birth to monster bucks through her genetics? Wouldn't you be doing the same thing? I'd be willing to bet that pretty much all if not almost all does will be pregnant. So what does it really matter if you kill her on October vs. killing her in Jan?


Well.....if you kill her in October before she is bred than you only killed one genetically superior Doe. You kill her in January and you killed a genetically superior Doe along with 2 or 3 genetically superior fawns. And while that giant buck was locked down with that Doe you just killed he could have been out breeding some other Doe that was actually going to give birth instead of one that was going to be shot after she was bred and before she gave birth.

Contrary to what some folks believe......a single buck aint out there breeding an endless supply of Does. In a free range herd your biggest buck is doing good to successfully breed 2-4 Does in a season. You shoot the wrong 2-4 does late in the season and its not hard to figure out the damage you just did.

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: JCB] #7401106
01/10/19 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.


Just my opinion, but with native genetics its 100% gamble what those fawns are going to come out like no matter if they were bread by a 150 inch 8 pt a 180 inch 12 pt or a spike buck. Shooting does keeps the numbers where you want/need them and the native genetics is going to produce what it is going to produce regardless of when you shoot your does. Also you will never know what doe was bread by the last or next up and coming super buck from the area.


May be a gamble what those fawns will be, but ones thing is for certain...….if you kill her before those fawns hit the ground you will 100% never know at all.

You can trim your numbers down before they are bred then you don't have to worry about if the biggest buck on your place bred that doe you just killed.


I can see the point where killing them early might open up a chance for your stud to breed a different doe. But if you need to take numbers, take numbers. Given how few superbucks there are out there per doe, in most cases, the chances are high that you're killing a doe bred by something less than a monster.


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7401113
01/10/19 09:50 PM
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I agree. Just not a chance I am willing to take. Heck I have only shot one Doe in the last 12 years. I shot her late in the season with my cross bow. If I do it again it will be early in bow season. My buck to doe ratio is fine so numbers aint a issue where I hunt.

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401515
01/11/19 08:36 AM
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MLD was designed to remove inferior bucks and mouths on large acreage places. Prepping for the next drought so you don't exceed carrying capacity. You don't ever get to pick what the doe has in the oven. Anything else, not sure what the realistic expectations are. My buddies went to it this year and if they don't follow it, they will have 60+ does running around they should have shot on 9,000 acres. I think only him and I took any so far and had to donate those. They need to use it for what it is.

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: JCB] #7401588
01/11/19 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.

What if the doe that you shot early in the season was the doe that was giving birth to monster bucks through her genetics? Wouldn't you be doing the same thing? I'd be willing to bet that pretty much all if not almost all does will be pregnant. So what does it really matter if you kill her on October vs. killing her in Jan?


Well.....if you kill her in October before she is bred than you only killed one genetically superior Doe. You kill her in January and you killed a genetically superior Doe along with 2 or 3 genetically superior fawns. And while that giant buck was locked down with that Doe you just killed he could have been out breeding some other Doe that was actually going to give birth instead of one that was going to be shot after she was bred and before she gave birth.

Contrary to what some folks believe......a single buck aint out there breeding an endless supply of Does. In a free range herd your biggest buck is doing good to successfully breed 2-4 Does in a season. You shoot the wrong 2-4 does late in the season and its not hard to figure out the damage you just did.

But what if the doe you just killed is the genetically inferior doe that was bred by the genetically inferior buck? Isn't it a toss-up? In my case, this year, we have WAY too many does. This weekend we are taking my son and a few of his friends out for the late youth season to let them kill a bunch of does. I killed one during bow, my mother in law killed one during bow, but in Navarro county, you can not harvest during rifle except the few days after Thanksgiving, and we could not be there for that. If you have a good Buck to doe ratio, it's not going to matter much if you didn't quite make your quota for doe. But, if you have 3 or 4 does to every Buck, I just don't see how killing 3 or 4 pregnant does is going to make a huge impact on your herd.


Originally Posted By: txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401681
01/11/19 02:46 PM
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Been years ago now, but I spoke to a breeder who before he got into breeding big time tried it on his own ranch property with some small HF pens. He captured the biggest buck on his place and then put 20 does with him. He said for the rest of that bucks life he never threw a buck fawn that even approached what he was. He told me that without years of genetic work/cleaning/ I don't know what you would call it, that there was just no telling what a deer's offspring would look like.


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: JCB] #7401682
01/11/19 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.


Just my opinion, but with native genetics its 100% gamble what those fawns are going to come out like no matter if they were bread by a 150 inch 8 pt a 180 inch 12 pt or a spike buck. Shooting does keeps the numbers where you want/need them and the native genetics is going to produce what it is going to produce regardless of when you shoot your does. Also you will never know what doe was bread by the last or next up and coming super buck from the area.


May be a gamble what those fawns will be, but ones thing is for certain...….if you kill her before those fawns hit the ground you will 100% never know at all.

You can trim your numbers down before they are bred then you don't have to worry about if the biggest buck on your place bred that doe you just killed.

Worry about it is an act of futility, just don't, it will make you crazy! muyloco


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: JCB] #7401704
01/11/19 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
I agree. Just not a chance I am willing to take. Heck I have only shot one Doe in the last 12 years. I shot her late in the season with my cross bow. If I do it again it will be early in bow season. My buck to doe ratio is fine so numbers aint a issue where I hunt.


I know I haven't hunted everywhere or maybe even that many places compared to some, but I am always curious about you guys who shoot no does and don't have high populations. Ive hunted and visited ranches in Comal, Guadalupe, Kendal, blanco, Gillespie, Kinney, Uvalde, medina , Duval, Atascosa, live oak, mcmullen, bexar, Wilson, Karnes, frio, la sale, brazos, Burleson, and Robertson counties. Unless it was due to human development ive never seen these sustained low densities, maybe areas of the panhandle etc. are different? Extreme west texas? It does make me wonder though.


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: unclebubba] #7401828
01/11/19 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by JCB
Originally Posted by unclebubba
Originally Posted by JCB
Kill does early otherwise you could be killing off the best genetics your place has to offer with them unborn fawns.

What if the doe that you shot early in the season was the doe that was giving birth to monster bucks through her genetics? Wouldn't you be doing the same thing? I'd be willing to bet that pretty much all if not almost all does will be pregnant. So what does it really matter if you kill her on October vs. killing her in Jan?


Well.....if you kill her in October before she is bred than you only killed one genetically superior Doe. You kill her in January and you killed a genetically superior Doe along with 2 or 3 genetically superior fawns. And while that giant buck was locked down with that Doe you just killed he could have been out breeding some other Doe that was actually going to give birth instead of one that was going to be shot after she was bred and before she gave birth.

Contrary to what some folks believe......a single buck aint out there breeding an endless supply of Does. In a free range herd your biggest buck is doing good to successfully breed 2-4 Does in a season. You shoot the wrong 2-4 does late in the season and its not hard to figure out the damage you just did.

But what if the doe you just killed is the genetically inferior doe that was bred by the genetically inferior buck? Isn't it a toss-up? In my case, this year, we have WAY too many does. This weekend we are taking my son and a few of his friends out for the late youth season to let them kill a bunch of does. I killed one during bow, my mother in law killed one during bow, but in Navarro county, you can not harvest during rifle except the few days after Thanksgiving, and we could not be there for that. If you have a good Buck to doe ratio, it's not going to matter much if you didn't quite make your quota for doe. But, if you have 3 or 4 does to every Buck, I just don't see how killing 3 or 4 pregnant does is going to make a huge impact on your herd.


If you are hunting Navarro, youth cannot take does in youth season. It is buck only there. Youth season follows same bag limits and deer restrictions as the first two days of general gun season.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/regulations/outdoor-annual/regs/season-types/youth-only

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401885
01/11/19 06:42 PM
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A single buck will not breed that many does in a season. That doe will not raise every fawn she is carrying. Some does are just poor mothers and won't even raise one fawn. There are no 200% fawn crops. A 50% average fawn crop annually would be great, but even that is not possible in some areas. If that buck is mature then it was not his first doe he bred or his maybe even his last one. If he did get lucky and breed 4 does this season you might only see one fawn or two from it next year. That is if you did not kill that buck before he even bred any does this year. In my area 3 of the last 4 yrs I was running a 17% to 25% fawn crop.
On the not killing does because they "might" be bred to the best buck in the pasture, I would not worry about it. I play the percentage game with that and hope the bucks doing the breeding are the ones I left(if I had the tags to remove the lower end of the bucks). I would worry more about leaving 36 does that might produce 18 fawns. That now creates a 54 mouth increase on stressed habitat. If I killed the 36 does this season I just created more food for the remaining mouths, that equates to a higher fawn crop and a much healthier herd...bucks and does. I only shoot does with fawns at their sides this time of the year. I want those does without fawns left. To me they should be younger and what I want breeding. I want those younger does in the herd for the genetics and the fact they will usually only raise one fawn. A much healthier single fawn, I do not want twins. Twins just create more mouths to remove in the future.
Lets turn the table on this one. What if this ranch is not culling or removing the lower end bucks. What if half of those 36 of those does are bred to bucks of lesser quality? How you feel about leaving them now?



Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401901
01/11/19 07:03 PM
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nobody ever mentions loss of deer to disease, predators, road hunters, fighting,
road kill, parasites, etc. etc. etc.

jmho- unless you hand raise 'em in a pen and they only eat the feed you select
and put out for them, and get vaccinations, and breed only the select deer you
want them to breed with, and are raised more or less like pets or blue ribbon
pedigreed cattle, then you don't know what you're gonna get. trying to "leave one
for next year" is a big chance at best

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: maximum] #7401903
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Originally Posted by maximum
nobody ever mentions loss of deer to disease, predators, road hunters, fighting,
road kill, parasites, etc. etc. etc.

jmho- unless you hand raise 'em in a pen and they only eat the feed you select
and put out for them, and get vaccinations, and breed only the select deer you
want them to breed with, and are raised more or less like pets or blue ribbon
pedigreed cattle, then you don't know what you're gonna get. trying to "leave one
for next year" is a big chance at best


Sure is, but if I shoot him, then I know he is dead. I just want something a little better than the average bear.


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401912
01/11/19 07:08 PM
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that's fine with me.
everyone should have their choice of what to do

Re: Pregnant Does [Re: DLALLDER] #7401914
01/11/19 07:10 PM
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I love leaving one for next year... the one that I have seen as a young deer and have a good idea of what he will look like next year. Im not betting on the one still floating around in its momma though you don't even know if it will be a buck or will survive.


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Re: Pregnant Does [Re: maximum] #7401974
01/11/19 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by maximum
nobody ever mentions loss of deer to disease, predators, road hunters, fighting,
road kill, parasites, etc. etc. etc.

trying to "leave one
for next year" is a big chance at best


One of the biggest things I've noticed since we've really worked on our ratio is just how many bucks die each year. In the last two years we've found four great or would-be great bucks deceased for unknown reasons. One would have been our best ever at that time, let alone with another year. And those are just the bucks we know about. Additionally, in our ~1.5 miles of highway frontage, at least five other deer were killed by automobiles.

That said, the last weekend of the regular season I saw three great mature deer, two other nice 3.5/older deer and several other young eights that already have me excited about 2019. As wet as this winter is it would take a horrid spring/summer to have worse antlers than this year. C'mon October!


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