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MOA with FFP ret ????? #7398776 01/08/19 02:39 PM
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I hunt, mostly sittin on my azz, and shoot steel pretty much known distances, I'm not an operator or PRS competitor.

I'm looking at my next scope purchase, lots of new and cool stuff out there and coming to SHOT Show.

I'm seeing some MOA dial, FFP reticle scopes coming out. I've never used FFP, does the changing reticle size bother other shooters like me?

budget is around 1$K more or less


"some people say I got a drinkin problem........I got no problem drinkin at all......."


Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7398853 01/08/19 03:48 PM
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Buzz, if you do not use your reticle for holds, FFP or SFP won't matter. If you use your reticle how it is supposed to be used for holds, then the FFP is good because the reticle subtends the same amount no matter the magnification you are on. I prefer SFP, but that's me. A FFP is nice, and I do have some scopes that are FFP. It's your preference.



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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7398856 01/08/19 03:50 PM
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Iím not an FFP guru, but I do have a couple of them, and I like them. The crosshairs thickness isnít much of a bother, since mostly I hunt and donít shoot on max magnification. The longer I use FFP and turrets, the more I like it. Dang, am I sounding like Fireman?


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7398871 01/08/19 04:05 PM
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I got the Bushnell LRHS that GAP was selling this summer. I remember you didn't like the "death donut" and after hunting with it this season, I kind of see what you mean. It definitely helped me center up a bobcat when I was short on time, but if I'm trying to get a good look at a buck, I could do without the clutter. I could do without the donut and numbers because I can count. If you go FFP and are worried about the reticle getting in the way, get one that's not too busy or has really thin lines and you should be fine.


Originally Posted by Scott W

I've got a Little Chubby and it does a great job.
Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: 603Country] #7398917 01/08/19 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
Iím not an FFP guru, but I do have a couple of them, and I like them. The crosshairs thickness isnít much of a bother, since mostly I hunt and donít shoot on max magnification. The longer I use FFP and turrets, the more I like it. Dang, am I sounding like Fireman?


Yesterday morning, we were just in legal light for deer. I saw coyotes in front of me, ranged them at 200 yards. Put the rifle on my pack in front of me, and it was at 3.5X. I turned it up until it looked good, held .5 Mil elevation on coyote shoulder, squeezed, peeew, thud, coyote down. After it was over I looked at my magnification ring to see where I had stopped. It was at 12X. Bushnell Elite 3.5-21X FFP. Magnification didn't matter, a Mil was still a Mil.

MOA sucks!


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7398925 01/08/19 04:41 PM
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The following is just my opinion.

I think this is a case of what I always referred to as "not missing my Ferrari." I truly have never missed my Ferrari because I never had one, only an insane person missing what they never had. So not ever having a FFP, i totally understand the skeptics so obviously it leads to a sense of uselessness. Even after having a couple and especially based on your description of your needs, no one needs FFP in any sense of the word need. But back to analogy, I'm sure every Ferrari owner will tell you how useful and practical their Ferrari is. For example, if there was some choice between a lesser quality glass with FFP (which these options now exist) at the same price as a better glass with a duplex, then give me the duplex all day everyday. In fact, i think the mil/mil or moa/moa matching is supremely more important and useful than any form of FFP as an option.

Also, I will arrogantly claim that I am way better at math than the vast majority of adults in America. Down right sad and pathetic, imho, the math proficiency of people at large in this country. So the advantages of FFP can really be mostly be marginalized by math. in fact, it aint even about being some Russell Crowe Beautiful mind thing either. Good dope data, trigger time, a little effort and a calculator will get you very far. Just ask all the service personnel who used fixed 10x scope using mildot and moa adjustments for decades.

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Korean Redneck] #7398964 01/08/19 05:24 PM
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KR,

No argument. But a story that's played out more times than I can remember. Customer contacts me, I ask about scope, rifle, and ammo. If it'll work, I say come on. It might not be the scope I would run, but I help them use it, anyway. And do not be little anyone for the gear they brought. We do the best we can with it. Then, toward the end of the day, I let them get behind one of my Mil/Mil FFP scopes, and also let them shoot a few rounds, 500 to 800 yards. What I hear every time is "well hell, that makes it easier". Yes, it does.


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: FiremanJG] #7398989 01/08/19 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
KR,

No argument. But a story that's played out more times than I can remember. Customer contacts me, I ask about scope, rifle, and ammo. If it'll work, I say come on. It might not be the scope I would run, but I help them use it, anyway. And do not be little anyone for the gear they brought. We do the best we can with it. Then, toward the end of the day, I let them get behind one of my Mil/Mil FFP scopes, and also let them shoot a few rounds, 500 to 800 yards. What I hear every time is "well hell, that makes it easier". Yes, it does.


Easier = quicker in almost all cases, and the early bird gets the buck.


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: QuitShootinYoungBucks] #7399009 01/08/19 05:56 PM
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Or coyote. wink


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7399016 01/08/19 05:58 PM
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I agree with KR since I am also very proficient with numbers. I also understand that most people do not have the recal that I do. Far and wide I think if you are using the reticle then FFP is better. And as JG stated, if you dial it to the desired effect and take the shot, it doesnít matter how proficient at math you are if you donít know the magnification. I did this this year. Got on target at 3x and dialed until I was happy. Dead Bambi. Had I been at enough distance I would have had to look at the magnification with a SFP and then took the shot. Even knowing my numbers I would have had to break the cheek weld. Thatís bad juju.

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7399171 01/08/19 08:38 PM
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Don't disagree with any of it.

I guess my approach to buy scopes, and firearms for that matter, always has me with a budget first and foremost. This always inevitable leads to x number choices and, in particular to scopes, a compromise between features and glass quality. In my personal life I always try to preface this "advice" with
a. budget first and foremost comment, and then
b. learning what I have if I could go back in time and then I would purchase y based on budget x.
So if it came down to it for you (this other person), then I know what my overall priorities are and I will just go down a distinct list;
tracking ability/holding zero (non-negotiable but usually only by reputation), glass quality, lens size, mag range, parallax adjustment, type of reticle, mil/mil or moa/moa match, FFP/SFP
then the stuff I no particular order just to consider
illumination

Now if one is heck bent on getting an FFP, which i've been at, then the mindset is different only in that i think one must first research what's available in the market if you're unfamiliar specifically with the FFP scope market. There are a whole lot more players today than even the 4-5 years since i got my first one.

Back to Buzz, I actually have an MOA FFP Primary Arms scope. The math/engineer nerd in me wants to say there there is literally no functional difference between a MOA or MIL based if both are FFP.
As for the reticle size, I was using only a simple duplex and FFP scope for a few years. Got the accupower 2.5-10 with mil/mil and no the reticle center looks too thin. Almost wish it was a little bit thicker for these aging eyes.

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7399189 01/08/19 08:59 PM
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KR thereís no such thing as a duplex FFP. Are you sure?

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7399572 01/09/19 03:31 AM
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I have found a scope that it seems that the MOA is actually slightly advantageous to having it in Mil.
The Revic scope. As you dial elevation it reads out your POI yardage so of course doesnít read every single yard only reading out The yardage that each click represents. So if you get one in Mil there would be even larger gaps which probably not a big deal but I think I will stay with MOA personally for that particular scope.
I also found out that you need to buy it in left handed if you shoot a lefty rifle.


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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: wp75169] #7399577 01/09/19 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
KR thereís no such thing as a duplex FFP. Are you sure?



I know there was a duplex with illuminated dot in FFP made at one time I think by Meopta
Yep found it....I had one for awhile but hated the FFP so swapped for something

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/us/produkt/meostar-r1-3-12x56-637_182/

Last edited by DStroud; 01/09/19 03:44 AM.

"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."

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Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: wp75169] #7399722 01/09/19 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
KR thereís no such thing as a duplex FFP. Are you sure?


Both Zeiss and Swarovski had FFP duplex and #4 type reticles to name two manufacturers.
Fairly heavy reticles that could be seen in low light fairly easily.

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: Buzzsaw] #7399758 01/09/19 01:52 PM
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I stand corrected. Can anyone explain the purpose of a FFP duplex?

Re: MOA with FFP ret ????? [Re: wp75169] #7399759 01/09/19 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wp75169
KR thereís no such thing as a duplex FFP. Are you sure?


Sorry, clarification....
I've only used duplex, in sfp, and every other one has been ffp. I have a few sfp bdc and a single sfp with traditional mildot reticle with moa adjustments.

Last edited by Korean Redneck; 01/09/19 01:54 PM.
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