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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7394054
01/03/19 02:03 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Logan, thanks for jumping in and the info. Agreed. My next question is what has barrel life average shown to be in the X47, and the Creedmoor case? Next barrel, I may very well go this route. I'm a sucker for BC, and some bullet weight. I had decided to abandon my typical 1:8.5 6.5mm, with 140's, and go to a 1:8 6.5mm with 147's, but this has my attention.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7394088
01/03/19 02:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
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ChadTRG42
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Very nice, Logan! Thank you for joining and chiming in! I'd love to pick your brain some more on these bullets. If G7 of .330 is legit, then that .257" caliber bullet is more steam lined than almost any other bullet out there. I built a rifle around the 7mm 195 Berger bullet, and it's been spot on. It's a very slick bullet. Something lighter, just as fast, and high BC is attractive.
How's this bullet done as a hunting bullet?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7394092
01/03/19 02:41 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,174
scottfromdallas
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Will it work in my 1 in 10" twist short action 257 Roberts?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: scottfromdallas]
#7394096
01/03/19 02:47 AM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,951
ChadTRG42
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Will it work in my 1 in 10" twist short action 257 Roberts? No. This bullet requires a 1:8" or faster twist to stabilize. This is what we mentioned how it won't work in any factory 25 caliber barrels. It will have to be a custom barrel.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7394112
01/03/19 03:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,498
kmon11
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I just looked at their website https://blackjackbullets.com/?v=7516fd43adaa Chad looks like a hunting bullet is in the works or at least says so on the site. Do not know about X-Caliber barrels but there is a package buy for one of those barrels and 3000 bullets for $1100 listed now. Reamers are also listed for 25 Creed and 25X47
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7394118
01/03/19 03:07 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,498
kmon11
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Will it work in my 1 in 10" twist short action 257 Roberts? No. This bullet requires a 1:8" or faster twist to stabilize. This is what we mentioned how it won't work in any factory 25 caliber barrels. It will have to be a custom barrel. The barrels on their site are 1:7 or 1:7.25
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7394131
01/03/19 03:22 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,174
scottfromdallas
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Will it work in my 1 in 10" twist short action 257 Roberts? No. This bullet requires a 1:8" or faster twist to stabilize. This is what we mentioned how it won't work in any factory 25 caliber barrels. It will have to be a custom barrel. The barrels on their site are 1:7 or 1:7.25 I was being very sarcastic. . I can barely fit as stabilize 120s in my Kimber.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: J.G.]
#7394139
01/03/19 03:27 AM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
257BJ
Green Horn
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Green Horn
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Logan, thanks for jumping in and the info. Agreed. My next question is what has barrel life average shown to be in the X47, and the Creedmoor case? Next barrel, I may very well go this route. I'm a sucker for BC, and some bullet weight. I had decided to abandon my typical 1:8.5 6.5mm, with 140's, and go to a 1:8 6.5mm with 147's, but this has my attention. No one has had time to burn one up yet. The production run of bullets have only been out for 3 months. I probably have the most down a barrel ~1300 rounds on my x47 which has been highly miss treated with multiple 20+ round test strings of fire. Barrel life is also a very subjective metric. With a moderate load and not burnt down with long strings of fire all the time our best estimates are in the 2500-3000 round range for the x47/creed cases
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: ChadTRG42]
#7394149
01/03/19 03:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
257BJ
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8 |
Very nice, Logan! Thank you for joining and chiming in! I'd love to pick your brain some more on these bullets. If G7 of .330 is legit, then that .257" caliber bullet is more steam lined than almost any other bullet out there. I built a rifle around the 7mm 195 Berger bullet, and it's been spot on. It's a very slick bullet. Something lighter, just as fast, and high BC is attractive.
How's this bullet done as a hunting bullet? We started this project to design the most efficient for weight bullet we could. With a lot of time and math we pulled it off! When you take off the barrel twist rate restriction that has handicapped the .257 bullets forever it really makes a ton of sense. Thankfully most of the barrel manufacturers were excited when we told them what we were doing and decided to make the fast twist blanks that are needed. Basically the same exact thing that happened with .243’s years ago! As far as hunting, 3 elk from 200-450y, 5 mule deer out to 660y have gone down with a 22” 25creed running 2915 FPS. Hand fulls of whitetail with the longest being 860y with 25x47 @ 2900-2930 fps. None went more than 30y from where they were shot, all pass throughs except the whitetail at 860y which stopped under the hide on the back side shoulder. A slew of coyotes have gone down the my x47 and 25 SAUM These hunting results are actually surprising to us but it’s definitely a pleasant one!
Last edited by 257BJ; 01/03/19 03:46 AM.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: 257BJ]
#7394155
01/03/19 03:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Logan, thanks for jumping in and the info. Agreed. My next question is what has barrel life average shown to be in the X47, and the Creedmoor case? Next barrel, I may very well go this route. I'm a sucker for BC, and some bullet weight. I had decided to abandon my typical 1:8.5 6.5mm, with 140's, and go to a 1:8 6.5mm with 147's, but this has my attention. No one has had time to burn one up yet. The production run of bullets have only been out for 3 months. I probably have the most down a barrel ~1300 rounds on my x47 which has been highly miss treated with multiple 20+ round test strings of fire. Barrel life is also a very subjective metric. With a moderate load and not burnt down with long strings of fire all the time our best estimates are in the 2500-3000 round range for the x47/creed cases I'm on an 800 yard range, that also has an indoor loading facility, 3 to 4 days a week. Also have an excellent gunsmith, that is a close friend. I can help
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7395075
01/04/19 01:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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The point being there are not that many ranges offering targets farther than 100 yards around here. Does the air lack O2 in your neighborhoods?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: rickt300]
#7395123
01/04/19 02:20 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,604
Sneaky
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The point being there are not that many ranges offering targets farther than 100 yards around here. Does the air lack O2 in your neighborhoods? Does your keyboard lack certain keys?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: rickt300]
#7395131
01/04/19 02:35 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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The point being there are not that many ranges offering targets farther than 100 yards around here. Does the air lack O2 in your neighborhoods? Texas is a big state, the U.S. is a big country. The nearest neighbor to my range is a mile away. I have thousands of trees, and trillions is blades of grass. No shortage of oxygen.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: J.G.]
#7395223
01/04/19 04:29 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,409
rickt300
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Lucky you, I already pointed out that you have access to a range that offers more than most of us can shoot at. I don't know why you characters are being such smart asses. There seems to be some infatuation with long skinny very pointed bullets with boat tails yet the ability to test such bullets is pretty limited. Where i live i have a 50/100/150 yard range set up and if it would dry out a bit I have some property I can set up a target at 400 yards. Not much I know but far more than many have access to. A bullet with a BC of 400 and a starting velocity of 2800 fps does pretty well at those ranges. If I join the local combat training range I will have access to a 600 yard target and then I would try some of the higher BC bullets out but even then the ELDM/Matchking style bullet is all I would need but then probably any BTSP would be fine if it shot well. I wonder how many on this forum have ever shot paper at 400 yards.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7395233
01/04/19 04:48 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,498
kmon11
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I have never shot paper past 500 but have busted rocks out to 800. Have had access to some properties with great natural backstops and plenty of rocks as far as I wanted to shoot. Those properties have been sold now so if I rally feel the urge when cleared by the Cardiologist to soot again I might visit Justin. Other than that have access to a couple 300 yard ranges one of which is only $30 a year for all you want to shoot
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: rickt300]
#7395298
01/04/19 12:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
dee
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Lucky you, I already pointed out that you have access to a range that offers more than most of us can shoot at. I don't know why you characters are being such smart asses. There seems to be some infatuation with long skinny very pointed bullets with boat tails yet the ability to test such bullets is pretty limited. Where i live i have a 50/100/150 yard range set up and if it would dry out a bit I have some property I can set up a target at 400 yards. Not much I know but far more than many have access to. A bullet with a BC of 400 and a starting velocity of 2800 fps does pretty well at those ranges. If I join the local combat training range I will have access to a 600 yard target and then I would try some of the higher BC bullets out but even then the ELDM/Matchking style bullet is all I would need but then probably any BTSP would be fine if it shot well. I wonder how many on this forum have ever shot paper at 400 yards. I don't know where you are in johnson co but cresson isn't very far and triple c has a range out past a mile.
"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7395356
01/04/19 01:59 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,542
redchevy
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Im sure a lot of people shoot the high bc bullets that will never shoot past 200 yards... I bet a fair number never past 150, but there are definitely those who have will and do. Ive shot paper once at 400 yards. Shoot some off and on at 200-300. Im in the process of getting permission to build a 500 yard range on my inlaws property.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: rickt300]
#7395426
01/04/19 02:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Lucky you, I already pointed out that you have access to a range that offers more than most of us can shoot at. I don't know why you characters are being such smart asses. There seems to be some infatuation with long skinny very pointed bullets with boat tails yet the ability to test such bullets is pretty limited. Where i live i have a 50/100/150 yard range set up and if it would dry out a bit I have some property I can set up a target at 400 yards. Not much I know but far more than many have access to. A bullet with a BC of 400 and a starting velocity of 2800 fps does pretty well at those ranges. If I join the local combat training range I will have access to a 600 yard target and then I would try some of the higher BC bullets out but even then the ELDM/Matchking style bullet is all I would need but then probably any BTSP would be fine if it shot well. I wonder how many on this forum have ever shot paper at 400 yards. Because for three posts you weren't making any sense. Ok, sorry for you that you only have access to 150 yards. There are many of us, on this forum that have access, and use some very long ranges. I could make a phone call this morning, load my stuff today, and be using property tomorrow that has line of sight for more than 3 miles. I do care about long, skinny, high BC bullets, because I use them on a weekly basis.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: 257BJ]
#7395454
01/04/19 03:19 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,465
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Very nice, Logan! Thank you for joining and chiming in! I'd love to pick your brain some more on these bullets. If G7 of .330 is legit, then that .257" caliber bullet is more steam lined than almost any other bullet out there. I built a rifle around the 7mm 195 Berger bullet, and it's been spot on. It's a very slick bullet. Something lighter, just as fast, and high BC is attractive.
How's this bullet done as a hunting bullet? We started this project to design the most efficient for weight bullet we could. With a lot of time and math we pulled it off! When you take off the barrel twist rate restriction that has handicapped the .257 bullets forever it really makes a ton of sense. Thankfully most of the barrel manufacturers were excited when we told them what we were doing and decided to make the fast twist blanks that are needed. Basically the same exact thing that happened with .243’s years ago! As far as hunting, 3 elk from 200-450y, 5 mule deer out to 660y have gone down with a 22” 25creed running 2915 FPS. Hand fulls of whitetail with the longest being 860y with 25x47 @ 2900-2930 fps. None went more than 30y from where they were shot, all pass throughs except the whitetail at 860y which stopped under the hide on the back side shoulder. A slew of coyotes have gone down the my x47 and 25 SAUM These hunting results are actually surprising to us but it’s definitely a pleasant one! 22” 25creed running 2915, this is correct? So with a 26” you should be touching or over 3k?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#7395465
01/04/19 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8
257BJ
Green Horn
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Green Horn
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 8 |
Very nice, Logan! Thank you for joining and chiming in! I'd love to pick your brain some more on these bullets. If G7 of .330 is legit, then that .257" caliber bullet is more steam lined than almost any other bullet out there. I built a rifle around the 7mm 195 Berger bullet, and it's been spot on. It's a very slick bullet. Something lighter, just as fast, and high BC is attractive.
How's this bullet done as a hunting bullet? We started this project to design the most efficient for weight bullet we could. With a lot of time and math we pulled it off! When you take off the barrel twist rate restriction that has handicapped the .257 bullets forever it really makes a ton of sense. Thankfully most of the barrel manufacturers were excited when we told them what we were doing and decided to make the fast twist blanks that are needed. Basically the same exact thing that happened with .243’s years ago! As far as hunting, 3 elk from 200-450y, 5 mule deer out to 660y have gone down with a 22” 25creed running 2915 FPS. Hand fulls of whitetail with the longest being 860y with 25x47 @ 2900-2930 fps. None went more than 30y from where they were shot, all pass throughs except the whitetail at 860y which stopped under the hide on the back side shoulder. A slew of coyotes have gone down the my x47 and 25 SAUM These hunting results are actually surprising to us but it’s definitely a pleasant one! 22” 25creed running 2915, this is correct? So with a 26” you should be touching or over 3k? Correct, our 26" test mule 25 Creedmoor is running 3,060 fps with H4350 and SP Lapua brass, will go faster with RL 26
Last edited by 257BJ; 01/04/19 03:39 PM.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: rickt300]
#7395607
01/04/19 05:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 15,642
QuitShootinYoungBucks
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The point being there are not that many ranges offering targets farther than 100 yards around here. Does the air lack O2 in your neighborhoods? Why do you need a range? I suspect 90% of this board has a place on their lease/ranch/etc. where they can go to at least 400 if not much further. You can get a round bale of hay delivered for ~$50-75 to serve as a backdrop and you'll be off and running.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170223065011/http:/www.rrdvegas.com/silencer-cleaning.html
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: kmon11]
#7395872
01/04/19 10:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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I just ran it head to head in a ballistic app, against a 147 gr ELD-M 6.5mm.
Same temp, and DA.
I am hoping, with a 26" barrel I can drive the 147 gr at 2780 fps MV, so that is the comparison. I gave the .257" an MV of 2950 fps.
They have identical wind holds out to 1400 yards. But, the .257" holds its' lead, in the speed department, at every distance, to 1400 yards. I even looked at time of flight (TOF)
6.5mm 147 ELD-M on the left. .257" Blackjack on the right.
500 yards .61 second, .58 second 800 yards 1.06 seconds, 1.00 seconds 1100 yards 1.58 seconds, 1.51 seconds 1400 yards 2.22 seconds, 2.12 seconds
500 yards 2181 fps, 2294 fps 800 yards 1861 fps, 1946 fps 1100 yards 1565 fps, 1621 fps 1400 yards 1293 fps, 1330 fps
It is salty, no doubt about it. Not sure the numbers are making me abandon 6.5 Creedmoor and go to the .257" just yet. Of course, this is all dependent on me getting the 147gr to go that fast, and I do think it is reasonable.
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: J.G.]
#7395883
01/04/19 10:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,542
redchevy
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I just ran it head to head in a ballistic app, against a 147 gr ELD-M 6.5mm.
Same temp, and DA.
I am hoping, with a 26" barrel I can drive the 147 gr at 2780 fps MV, so that is the comparison. I gave the .257" an MV of 2950 fps.
They have identical wind holds out to 1400 yards. But, the .257" holds its' lead, in the speed department, at every distance, to 1400 yards. I even looked at time of flight (TOF)
6.5mm 147 ELD-M on the left. .257" Blackjack on the right.
500 yards .61 second, .58 second 800 yards 1.06 seconds, 1.00 seconds 1100 yards 1.58 seconds, 1.51 seconds 1400 yards 2.22 seconds, 2.12 seconds
500 yards 2181 fps, 2294 fps 800 yards 1861 fps, 1946 fps 1100 yards 1565 fps, 1621 fps 1400 yards 1293 fps, 1330 fps
It is salty, no doubt about it. Not sure the numbers are making me abandon 6.5 Creedmoor and go to the .257" just yet. Of course, this is all dependent on me getting the 147gr to go that fast, and I do think it is reasonable. In the essence of comparing apples to apples, in your comparison shouldnt you start the .257 out at 3060 fps (the mv the maker claims out of a 26 inch barrel?)
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: redchevy]
#7395915
01/04/19 11:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,171
J.G.
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Is that the claim for a 26" Creedmoor?
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Re: Quarter bore bullet Jason could like
[Re: J.G.]
#7395999
01/05/19 02:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,498
kmon11
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Is that the claim for a 26" Creedmoor? Looks like that is what Logan posted earlier in this thread Correct, our 26" test mule 25 Creedmoor is running 3,060 fps with H4350 and SP Lapua brass, will go faster with RL 26
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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