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Mar 25th, 2012
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I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh #7381525 12/19/18 05:56 PM
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FishingDude22 Offline OP
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This past weekend I saw the biggest buck I have ever seen in a feeder before. I decided I was gonna drop this bad boy! Long story short, I wound up wounding the buck and it ended up with him running away with an injured leg. I know that my shot felt good and it should have been on target. I donít know what happened. I decided to shoot at a paper plate 100 yards away and see what was going on. My first two shots didnít even hit the plate. It hit the board that the plate was on 7 inches low! I had already sighted the gun in at 100 yards before the season started and shot a deer 2 weeks prior. I donít understand how the gun got off that much in such a short amount of time. Everything is tight, nothing loose. It hasnít been thrown around or dropped or anything like that. Do I just have a junk scope or what? Itís a vortex crossfire 3x9x40.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7381529 12/19/18 06:02 PM
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What is your exact set up? Rings, bases, rifle, caliber, etc?

By chance, was it these bases?

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Last edited by ChadTRG42; 12/19/18 06:03 PM.


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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7381544 12/19/18 06:16 PM
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Everyone has their likes and dislikes when it comes to scopes. I canít stand the Crossfire, think they are a POS. It is also my opinion the Vortex warranty has to be used WAY too often.


A Tibetan monk walked up to a hotdog stand and said, ďMake me one with everythingĒ.
Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: booradley] #7381600 12/19/18 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by booradley
Everyone has their likes and dislikes when it comes to scopes. I canít stand the Crossfire, think they are a POS. It is also my opinion the Vortex warranty has to be used WAY too often.


Yep.


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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: ChadTRG42] #7382257 12/20/18 01:47 PM
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It is a Mossberg patriot 270. Iím not sure if the rings or bases. It is the scope that came with the gun. I have shot it before with 1-2 inch groupings at 100 yards. But all of a sudden now it wonít shoot consistently in the same place. Itís all over, high low. Left and right. Iím not talking about an inch or so, cause that would be fine. Iím talking 6-7 inches high or low, and 2-3 inches left or right.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382263 12/20/18 01:50 PM
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You have to verify if all screws are tight before blaming the scope.


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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FiremanJG] #7382298 12/20/18 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
You have to verify if all screws are tight before blaming the scope.


This right here.

Couple years ago I missed the biggest buck of my life. 120yd shot with my Blackout. No problem usually. After missing went to the range like you with a paper plate. Was missing 8 inches high at 100. Looked everything over and found my screws were loose on my rings. Tightened them up and presto! back to normal.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382346 12/20/18 03:00 PM
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You have a torque wrench?


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382371 12/20/18 03:17 PM
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A similar issue happened to me many years ago when I "upgraded" the scope and rings on a tack driving Remington 788. I was cussing the scope for days and was finally pulling it off to put my old scope back on when I found I had a cracked ring. Replaced the rings and all was well again.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382372 12/20/18 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by FishingDude22
It is a Mossberg patriot 270. Iím not sure if the rings or bases. It is the scope that came with the gun. I have shot it before with 1-2 inch groupings at 100 yards. But all of a sudden now it wonít shoot consistently in the same place. Itís all over, high low. Left and right. Iím not talking about an inch or so, cause that would be fine. Iím talking 6-7 inches high or low, and 2-3 inches left or right.



Check the action screws too. We just went through this with my brother's Patriot. He couldn't get it to stay on paper at 100 yards. He brought it over so I could level and remount the scope and torque all the screws. The front action screw was so loose that i could turn it with my fingers. I torqued it down to spec and the bolt wouldn't open. The screw was about 5 threads too long. After I filed it down and got everything put back together, it still shot over 2 MOA.


Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382381 12/20/18 03:31 PM
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It has become policy for me to ask my customers if they would like for me to check torque on ALL of the screws in the rifle, base, or rings. No one has turned me down. I have seen the action screws cause trouble, the base screws cause trouble, and the ring screws cause trouble. When any one of them come loose, the rifle puts bullets in erratic places. If one of mine starts shooting poorly, that is the first thing I do, check torque. If everything is torqued to spec, then the only other thing it can be is a barrel that needs cleaning. This is all, of course, discounting a shot out barrel, which does happen to me from time to time, but I know when to expect it.


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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382425 12/20/18 04:25 PM
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fishingdude, something is causing your random groups. You will need to check all the items that people are talking about above. Action screws, rings, bases, etc. Once you do this, shoot it again. I would also have a second scope handy in case it could be the scope causing the issue. But when groups go from 1-2 inches to all over the place, there's a reason. Could it be the scope, yes. But you have to check everything else first.



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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382589 12/20/18 07:23 PM
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I had a base screw back out after 17 years. Made my rifle that had always been on, suddenly have huge groups. Went ahead and upgraded rings and bases after that. It's on again.

If you send it in, Vortex will test the scope for free and repair or replace if needed. I had to do that on a scope that was grouping minute of hub cap. Got a new scope sent back to me within a week.


It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: ChadTRG42] #7382636 12/20/18 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Toxarch
I had a base screw back out after 17 years. Made my rifle that had always been on, suddenly have huge groups. Went ahead and upgraded rings and bases after that. It's on again.


I had this same thing happen to me on a hunt in Africa. It was a 14 day hunt and on the last day I missed a an easy shot on an duiker. Took it to the range at the farm i was hunting and could not get it to group. I could not figure out for the life of me what was going on, since I had not dropped or banged the rifle and had been shooting perfectly prior. Long story short, back home, at the range I could not figure it out, but realized the scope ha moved back sightly (1/8 inch) in the rings. The rear base wind-age screw below had come slightly loose. I immediately changed most of my rifles to Tally one piece rings and bases or dove tail rings and bases.



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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: Erny] #7382786 12/20/18 10:45 PM
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Yup. ^^Those are crap.


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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7382860 12/21/18 12:24 AM
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Wow! Lots of good advice. I didnít think to check the action screw. I dropped it off at a local gun shop to see if they could figure out what was going on., Iíll have to ask them if anything was loose. Thanks for all the advice!

Last edited by FishingDude22; 12/21/18 12:24 AM.
Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7388742 12/28/18 06:13 PM
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What did you find out?

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7389196 12/29/18 12:48 PM
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It sure sounds like that scope won't hold zero..

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7435784 02/16/19 05:19 PM
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So what did the gunsmith find out

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7436102 02/17/19 01:50 AM
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I am not an expert by any means but I've been shooting for 32 years. Been shooting centerfire rifles for 19 years and almost always tried to use the cheapest thing I could get by on.

One thing I learned for sure- a bundled scope in a cheap combo will ALWAYS fail, 100% of the time, regardless of the brand. From Bushnell and Nikon to Nikko Sterling, and now Vortex. Whatever it is, it's gonna give out. Yeah it could be the rings, too. They go cheap on those as well. But you just can't expect a bundled scope to last.

Bundled scopes are a cheap, for now deal at a bargain price. There's a reason it usually cost more for a given model of rifle with good open sights than it does with a scope. And meanwhile people see it and think "wow it comes with a free scope".

Factory bore sighted is the biggest lie in gun marketing today. 99% of the time you'd be lucky to be on paper with a "factory lazer boresighted" gun. I can get within 6" of the bull just eye balling it down the bore at 100 yards every time. And I am just a regular dude that gave it a try, not an expert by any means.

These days I always buy the most quality I can afford and 99.9% of the time I buy used so I can recoup my initial investment.

Optics are often worth buying new, you never know when you are gonna get someone else's scope that quit tracking or etc. So if you go used on a scope buy "like new" from someone you trust that you're gonna see again. Or buy absolute top quality used stuff after you meet face to face and inspect- or just buy new but still the best quality you can afford.

My 2 cents, for what they are worth.

Last edited by regularguy11B; 02/17/19 01:52 AM.

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Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7437613 02/18/19 08:16 PM
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Haven't read the whole thread, but the more experience I get with rifles, the more I have begun blaming the base/rings for POI issues rather than the scope itself. It's definitely the first thing I check. I used to have all sorts of wandering zero issues before I got decent base/rings on all of my equipment. Now those have pretty much gone away, even on guns with cheap scopes.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7437644 02/18/19 08:41 PM
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I know this won't help your situation now. But a guy I know that guides a bunch requires all hunters to shoot a 2" steel target at the beginning of every weekend. Doesn't matter who you are, or if you just sighted your gun in. Spending another $1-2 has helped him avoid some seriously upset hunters. He just got someone to cut him two 2" AR500 targets and is a quick check, helps with hunter's confidence as well.

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7441113 02/22/19 02:57 AM
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can someone list the torque specs for the bases and rings ?

Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: breadman] #7441125 02/22/19 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by breadman
can someone list the torque specs for the bases and rings ?


They vary by manufacturer. I always torque my rings to the scope manufacturer's specs (15-20 in/lbs for my Vortex scopes) and my base clamps to the ring manufacturer's specs.


Originally Posted by KRoyal
Haha yea I polished that thing for hours.
Re: I never miss! Vortex!!! Ugghhh [Re: FishingDude22] #7444813 02/26/19 06:29 PM
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Try the Leupold one piece base and blue loctite torqued to 60 inch pounds and rings torqued to 15 inch pounds. That's what works for me. I don't use those two piece bases anymore.


ďA hunt based only on the trophies taken falls far short of what the ultimate goal should be.Ē -Fred Bear
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