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Mar 25th, 2012
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TPWD boasts ............................ #7322063 10/21/18 11:04 PM
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I received the email from TPWD this week. Anyone of you get it as well? If you sign up for public draws you get updates and such.

Anyhow I decided to take the bite line and sinker and explored the email a bit more thinking I been missing out. Not really missing much. The 1 million plus acres of walk in hunting is mainly small game and birds. I thought dad gumm I been slacking not killing mule deer, wt and buffalo on Texas public lands. Sounded to good to be true.................and it was.


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7322593 10/22/18 12:15 PM
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Yeah. I hold TPWD directly responsible for the decline in hunter numbers. This just didn't happen, they missed the boat decades if not a century ago. If you dont have public big game hunting, you can't sell hunting licenses.


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: Ranch Dog] #7322696 10/22/18 01:44 PM
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What about the fact that most of Texas is privately owed? To me, it seems there's only so much TPWD can do with the little land that is in their control and most landowners don't seem willing to open their property up to public opportunity for big game.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: HankTheTank] #7322749 10/22/18 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted By: HankTheTank
What about the fact that most of Texas is privately owed? To me, it seems there's only so much TPWD can do with the little land that is in their control and most landowners don't seem willing to open their property up to public opportunity for big game.


They could do more.

https://www.politifact.com/texas/stateme...ic-lands-uncle/


This article states that Texas had over 13 million acres controlled by the state.
The state could allow more hunting on state parks. They could create more partnerships with land owners for draws. They could try and pressure the corps on more use.of their lands. Just lake Lewisville and lavon alone is a bunch of land for deer. But the current manager or biologist is not allowing. Those should have a draw they both have Managable numbers of whitetail.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7322818 10/22/18 03:01 PM
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I'll agree.
TPWD boasts "1 million acres of public hunting grounds in Texas".
The state of Michigan has over 4 million (yet, all over the USA, Texas seems to be one of the hunting capitals of the world)

I've emailed both TPWD and ACE suggesting that we should at least allow drawn public hog hunts (archery only) in George Bush park (Barker Reservoir) in West Houston/Katy:
- Money from hunters to improve the outdated flood control Barker reservoir project (remember Harvey?)
- Money from hunters to improve wildlife conservation in the area (lots of hogs in the area).
- Gives hunting & wildlife conservation outreach & education to middle-class folks in the Houston-area that are deceived into thinking "Hunting is a rich man's thing".

It's a win-win for all parties involved.
Didn't get a response from neither of them.


I wouldn't go as far as saying they're solely responsible for the decline of hunters. They're partly to blame, but the private hunting industry along with ourselves have to take part of the blame.


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: HankTheTank] #7323609 10/23/18 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: HankTheTank
What about the fact that most of Texas is privately owed? To me, it seems there's only so much TPWD can do with the little land that is in their control and most landowners don't seem willing to open their property up to public opportunity for big game.


TPWD can manage even private lands if they so wanted. Look at places like Wyoming. 33 million public lands to hunt. Another 8 million private lands are cohort-ed by Wyoming parks and wildlife. The State gives the landowners HUGE tax cuts grazing rights and access to public lands and also pays landowners for hunting rights so the public can use them.

It's a win win situation and everyone benefits. Can it be done in Texas. I think it could have many yrs ago. Financially now I am not so sure.


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7323941 10/23/18 10:49 AM
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Frustrating!

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7323960 10/23/18 11:17 AM
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Well said 7mag! TPWD has squandered 65 years of opportunity. They bend over backwards to help large, well funded properties and have nothing left for fractured land under small acerage ownership.

All the technical assistance and all the high fences should have come at a price. If you use or restrict a public resource, employees or wildlife, it should have come at a cost that is fair to those funding the State agency. One method of restitution should have been public hunting opportunities.


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7324038 10/23/18 12:58 PM
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TPWD needs to quit being so damn stingy with the number of permits it issues for its WMAs. mad
Especially the ones in south and west Texas. In the mid 80's I hunted Richland Creek WMA.Back then it was in the type 2 program,cost 25.00 for the AHP,centerfirefire rifles were legal for nov and dec and bowhunting legal for the entire 3 months of the season. Guys would literally camp out for 3 months on the property in trailers and old converted school buses etc.Fast forward to 2018 and you have Yoakum Dunes WMA,which is much larger than Richland Creek and they only issues 1 permit.Period.Really,14,000 acres and they only let 1 guy hunt it?Thats bulls**t.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7324061 10/23/18 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: 7mag
Originally Posted By: HankTheTank
What about the fact that most of Texas is privately owed? To me, it seems there's only so much TPWD can do with the little land that is in their control and most landowners don't seem willing to open their property up to public opportunity for big game.


TPWD can manage even private lands if they so wanted. Look at places like Wyoming. 33 million public lands to hunt. Another 8 million private lands are cohort-ed by Wyoming parks and wildlife. The State gives the landowners HUGE tax cuts grazing rights and access to public lands and also pays landowners for hunting rights so the public can use them.

It's a win win situation and everyone benefits. Can it be done in Texas. I think it could have many yrs ago. Financially now I am not so sure.


I understand what you're saying, but is it TPWD's fault or are private landowners also to blame? Is it a matter of TPWD not making enough effort, not offering enough incentives? Or are Texas landowners less inclined to participate for whatever reasons (loss of privacy, use of their land, liability issues, more money from leasing, etc)? I could be wrong, but comparing Texas to Wyoming or other Western states may not be apples to apples.

These are honest questions here because I'm not very familiar with how TPWD operates and I don't own land. I'm just getting back into hunting after a 15-20 year break so there's a lot I have to catch up on and feel a bit out of touch. Public opportunities are about the only opportunity I have due to family, limited budget, etc. and I wish there were more places and better distributed across the state. Many places I'm interested in are 3-5 hrs away from me.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7324084 10/23/18 01:43 PM
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Private land ownership (or, before the concept of ownership, a tribe's territory) versus other people wanting to hunt and fish said area has been going on since the dawn of man. Or, at least since we got booted from The Garden. grin TPWD isn't gonna be able to fix it. But I'm sure they could make improvements to the system.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: HankTheTank] #7324314 10/23/18 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: HankTheTank
Originally Posted By: 7mag
Originally Posted By: HankTheTank
What about the fact that most of Texas is privately owed? To me, it seems there's only so much TPWD can do with the little land that is in their control and most landowners don't seem willing to open their property up to public opportunity for big game.


TPWD can manage even private lands if they so wanted. Look at places like Wyoming. 33 million public lands to hunt. Another 8 million private lands are cohort-ed by Wyoming parks and wildlife. The State gives the landowners HUGE tax cuts grazing rights and access to public lands and also pays landowners for hunting rights so the public can use them.

It's a win win situation and everyone benefits. Can it be done in Texas. I think it could have many yrs ago. Financially now I am not so sure.


I understand what you're saying, but is it TPWD's fault or are private landowners also to blame? Is it a matter of TPWD not making enough effort, not offering enough incentives? Or are Texas landowners less inclined to participate for whatever reasons (loss of privacy, use of their land, liability issues, more money from leasing, etc)? I could be wrong, but comparing Texas to Wyoming or other Western states may not be apples to apples.

These are honest questions here because I'm not very familiar with how TPWD operates and I don't own land. I'm just getting back into hunting after a 15-20 year break so there's a lot I have to catch up on and feel a bit out of touch. Public opportunities are about the only opportunity I have due to family, limited budget, etc. and I wish there were more places and better distributed across the state. Many places I'm interested in are 3-5 hrs away from me.


A bit of both. Look at pricing on State owned deer, yeah I did say STATE owned deer by private landowners. TPWD could have many yrs ago helped everyone and more so hunters. I don't think they can feasibly do much now as the train is ahead of the wreck.

Land owners are use to having large sums of cash flow from private hunts etc. Do a bit of research on western states and you will find what they did way back with private landowners. Money makes the world go round. By no means am I against everyone making money but at some point what are the limits? if any?


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7324321 10/23/18 05:49 PM
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https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Public-Access/Access-Summary/

WGFD Access Yes Access Program

The Access Yes Access Program was created in 1998 to enhance and maintain public hunting and fishing access on private and landlocked public and State lands in Wyoming. Hunting access is provided by enrolling lands in one of 3 subprograms: the Walk-In Area Program (WIA); Hunter Management Area Program (HMA); and Hunter/Landowner Assistance Program. (See: https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Public-Access/).


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7324442 10/23/18 08:06 PM
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There was one year that I got the aph permit. Mainly because I live in the Metro mess and all of our family and friends hunting spots or way out in West Texas and I wanted an opportunity to do a little dove hunting here closer to home. I was aware that going out on opening week for dove at some of these places gave you the high likelihood of getting a custom shotgun pellet tattoo or the like so I waited a while into the season then went out 2 or 5 different places within a 2-hour Drive of DFW area. It turned into more of a nature walk I was really shocked to see that not only were there any Dove anywhere to be seen But the area seem completely devoid of any flying animals. One of the issues I have and sadly discovered after purchasing the permit is that most places that allow dove hunting only allow it for the first split of the season. I actually prefer to hunt the second split because I'm a glutton for punishment and cold weather I guess. LOL. We were considering purchasing the permit this year and giving some sandhill cranes ago out in West Texas during mule deer season. We're very conscious of our mule deer hunting out in West Texas and only Harvest one on average every 5 plus years. The paid Hunters that go out there seem to drop every six point that they see. I don't know if it's because they've invested the money and don't want to walk away empty-handed or that they are used to hunting Whitetail and see a young mule deer Buck rack and get excited because it looks so large in comparison. I grew up out there and a lot of the locals feel like they should close the season for a while. That may be one reason as one earlier poster noticed that on the Yoakum Dunes they don't allow many permits out there. We have Hunted for mule deer out there many years and we see lots of doughs and we lit a lot of bucks walk. The last book I took was probably on his last year of life he was a huge bodied but it had a good limp on his back leg so I decided to take him. We had seen plenty of large direct six points that we let walk but we always have this nagging feeling that if somebody that paid $2,500 or more to hunting mule deer out there what it drops at Buck instead of letting it grow.I will get my aph permit this year in the hopes of perhaps bagging a few sandhill crane over the course of three or four days. I don't expect that we will limit out. Just really excited at the opportunity to put one on the grill. Guided hunts are usually way out of our budget. And as far as mule deer this year we always hope we see a nice old mature buck that has done his job in breeding and is in the Twilight of his life that will make a good shooter. I think that in those areas where the Bucks are not as plentiful if we all took that approach the hunting situation would improve out there. On the high side a lot of the oil companies that just used to own the mineral rights to land have now Ashley purchased the land and created a lot of zones where hunting is not allowed. These act as great areas for deer to hold up and create safe breeding zones to help the population on a whole. Although poaching is still a problem out there and we keep the local game wardens business card and our wallets to help him in his efforts to prevent poaching and illegal hunting, it's a lot of land for one fellow to cover and I would hope that all folks in those one week season for mule deer buck hunting are doing the same to assist the local game warden in his efforts to help protect are Wildlife Resources out there.I'm like any other Hunter and it's nice to put some meat in the freezer but it's also a blessing to Glass a lot of deer even though they not be shooting Worthy and get out there and hunt without the mentality that I'm out there just to kill. On the bright side if we don't see any shooter mule deer bucks there are plenty of opportunities if you get itchy trigger fingers. coyotes and prairie dogs make for some really fun shooting out there. In fact most of my excitement when we're driving out there is the prospect of dropping a ton of coyotes because they are so darn plentiful and then honing my rifle skills on the immense prairie dog towns that exist on some of the ranches out there. Not to mention it helps cut down on ranchers having cattle with broken legs. LOL.
Tpwd, well I guess they are doing the best they can with what they have and I agree that it could be executed better but I really don't have the answers on how that could be accomplished. There are so many thousands of Acres out there that could be opened up to public hunting but at the same time I can also understand why those landowners would rather reap the benefits of leasing hunts in terms of dollars. My brother and I are of modest means and often consider getting a deer lease but usually find that our money is better spent on our day-to-day needs for our families. I am glad that folks with deeper pockets have the opportunities they do to go after the big boys. I don't begrudge than that at all. Just my two cents for what it's worth.
And I do apologize for any typos or incorrect words in my above paragraph. still getting over a surgery and taking the lazy route of using voice to text to post. God willing I'll be fully recovered before the week of Thanksgiving to spend some great time with my brother hunting and enjoying the Great Outdoors and if we're fortunate enough maybe putting a little meat in the freezer this year.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7355451 11/22/18 07:40 PM
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I can only speak to what I deal with on my property and TPW dropped the ball on allowing too many doe to be taken in Collin County. Too many leasing hunters and small property owners tagged out on 2 doe the first few years and the population will go in a steep decline in the next few years. The doe herd Iíve had on my property went from 10-12 to 3-4. I have 20+ bucks running through. Plus the AR is killing the genetics. Bucks who should be culled out canít because they arenít wide enough. Just plain stupid and obvious that itís a broken system. Problem is by the time they see it, it will be too late. Where I hunt in Oklahoma they have no such restrictions and the bucks are getting better by allowing the local landowners to manage as they see fit.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7355810 11/23/18 12:04 PM
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I would be happy if my AR County, DeWitt, went to one buck (no restrictions) and one doe. I think that would be a 100% improvement over the ARs and doe days or Level I MLD. Sure people are going to cheat, but they are cheating now.


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7355817 11/23/18 12:23 PM
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Back in the early seventies, neighboring Victoria County had the 1/1, and I think most saw it as favorable. At that time it was two bucks and does by permit only (even for archery), and it was impossible to get permits. Does from years of protection, time one, were thick. The trial period, I think three years, just went away and nothing was ever shared with County landowners or hunters.

At present, runts like this one live an easy life. He was a four-point his first year and has been ever since.

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What I would do if 1/1 were to start magically, is give the first-time hunter an opportunity. Youth or adult, there are plenty of people looking for hunting. Might be someone on this forum.


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7355870 11/23/18 02:09 PM
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People from out of state win the Big Game draw hunts. Thatís highly unfair to Texas residents. If you want to hunt big game in Texas you must go to a private ranch and PAY!!!


If you want to hunt big game economically, Texas is NOT the place to do it.

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: Reloder28] #7355877 11/23/18 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Reloder28
People from out of state win the Big Game draw hunts. Thatís highly unfair to Texas residents. If you want to hunt big game in Texas you must go to a private ranch and PAY!!!

If you want to hunt big game economically, Texas is NOT the place to do it.

I think I mentioned this earlier, but I've had the "public hunt" talks with some friends from out of State who had started to entertain the thought of moving to Texas. Just had it with a fellow that has retired in AZ and wanted to move here. I went over the public hunting situation, particularly South Texas where he wants to relocate, and Texas has been dropped from his list. That's unfortunate, a voting conservative. Anyway, he has not paid lease fees at any time in his life, and if he doesn't budget such (if he can find a lease), he isn't going to hunt in South Texas.


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7355901 11/23/18 02:51 PM
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This is my 2nd season hunting, and I am just starting to realize how unfortunate we are with regards to public land. Being a small business owner, I do not really have the ability to drop money for leases, public land is basically all that I have.

Its why I have joined Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, they are on the front-lines. They were VERY vocal during the Black Gap expansion earlier this year.

I mean, their mission statement says it all "Mission statement: Texas is widely known for its hunting culture and abundant game populations. However, in perhaps no other state is access to land for hunting so financially based and, therefore, financially limiting to the average person. Federal- and state-owned land constitutes < 2% of the state, with a mere fraction of this allotted to open access hunting. Moreover, it is among the states that have deviated furthest from the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. The Texas chapter of Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice of sportsmen & recreationists in Texas who value wild land and water that support healthy wildlife populations and their habitat, public access and opportunity to that land and water, and the concept of fair chase."

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/texas_bha

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/black_gap_wma


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7356873 11/24/18 06:26 PM
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this damn yankee's 2cents . Tip me cowboyhat ta the ones running OSBWMA. started hunten public land when it opened up just down the road. By time it opened up had done the leasing confused2 tis what every one was doing. found one could afford, it was a family outing, with chance ta put food on d grill & in d freezer. We were just getting started. scratch tis thinking biggest reason for decrease in hunters tis No place for affordabe hunting. Minnesota their was no leasing, just price of hunting licence & land owners were open ta hunters. we grew up hunten & fishen as low-income family. with high price leasing, its cheaper ta just hunt bargens at wally-world or Sam's club. Figure $per# thenput yoour feet in thar (younger generation just starting out). Lease started on was less than a buck a day with 24-7-365 hog hunten, Family outing, lots of awesome memories, & had been hunten, fishen since 60's. had guns & fishing equipment. Although hunten was completely different, we had no feeders nor food plot with box stands. Cant blame people for watchen how they spend thar money in tough times. That $7.22 an hour in 83 was big bucks ta what was making before, almost triiple. & the $40.00 permit was way cheaper than the rising prices of leasing, & had more options, over 1,000,000 acres. Smith county was buck only for rifle, hmm unbalance we triide ta get just 1 doe tag, not enough deer. worked fences, bailed hay, always out doors doing something, [ihunters b the eyes & ears][/i] boiled down ta pollatics, & voice of low-income workers just trying ta put some food on d grill fell on deaf ears.... Seen lot of hard working hunters, put time effort & money in ta hunting leases, only ta get out bid. OSBWMA was deer archery only with rifle draw hunt, with three month hog hunts, the other wild-game. First year still had a deer lease, no hogs, so hit WMA for the hog hunts, Seen big #ers of hogs, few deer. gave up the leasing next year grabbed bow in hand & took a stand, could have taken deer behind house if needed. had food plot & feeder set up. As years went bye started seeing more deer at WMA, due ta archery only hunts. & when Smith county went 4 deer, could have taken 4 deer legally. yet still did archery hunts. Still Proud supporter of WMA's . Look at the so called "hog problem" times have changed since back in me muyloco caveman days, NV, thermal, fly-by hunts even the lights around feeders. Its become all about the big bucks. Seen decrease in hog #ers at sabine, scratch lot of that gotta do with the flooding. Things here have changed also, seeing box stands, some places leased, not near the amount of public land for hunting & getting tough ta find place ta hunt. Few younger age hunters, land availability & prices... My hunten, fishen stuff still in texas got cheap crossbow, less than $100.00 for me in-line, ladder stand on sale , fishing equipment on sale or cheap end little at a time. ya, Grampa, tell me about the good old days. Think only reason Pres. Trump won cause of dirty pollatis, call me a snow-flake, didnt vote for him. The Rich run the Gov. Trump played on the low-income being feed-up. sorry for rant. {rofl: then again most wont read this, tis in d top 5 on d ignorane list.

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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: colt.45] #7357359 11/25/18 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by colt.45
again most wont read this, tis in d top 5 on d ignorane list.


I read your post, I try to offer that respect to everyone that is responding to a topic I'm participating in, and it was exhausting. Why not drop the emojis and use complete sentences to get your points across?


Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: Ranch Dog] #7372008 12/10/18 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Ranch Dog
Well said 7mag! TPWD has squandered 65 years of opportunity. They bend over backwards to help large, well funded properties and have nothing left for fractured land under small acerage ownership.

All the technical assistance and all the high fences should have come at a price. If you use or restrict a public resource, employees or wildlife, it should have come at a cost that is fair to those funding the State agency. One method of restitution should have been public hunting opportunities.


Agree. I read a TPWD article a few years back that stated the Wildlife of Texas belongs to the Residents / Tax Payers. That said, Private Land Owners, go ahead and high fence your land, just be sure to pay restitution to the state for ALL of those deer that you have trapped. * Or allow TPWD to manage public hunts on your land.

*I was on a lease for many years until it got too expensive. Now days I travel to my Honey Holes where I have acquired permission from land owners to hunt - and it costs me nothing. Well, maybe a six pack of beer or a lunch / dinner, and a few hours of gossiping.


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Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: swampthang] #7376453 12/14/18 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by swampthang
TPWD needs to quit being so damn stingy with the number of permits it issues for its WMAs. mad
Especially the ones in south and west Texas. In the mid 80's I hunted Richland Creek WMA.Back then it was in the type 2 program,cost 25.00 for the AHP,centerfirefire rifles were legal for nov and dec and bowhunting legal for the entire 3 months of the season. Guys would literally camp out for 3 months on the property in trailers and old converted school buses etc.Fast forward to 2018 and you have Yoakum Dunes WMA,which is much larger than Richland Creek and they only issues 1 permit.Period.Really,14,000 acres and they only let 1 guy hunt it?Thats bulls**t.


The whole richland creek situation is maddening, the people running it now are a bunch of Nazis!

Re: TPWD boasts ............................ [Re: 7mag] #7376626 12/14/18 08:35 AM
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I've been seeing some of the same bucks for years now...that should have been culled a long time ago. Those antler restrictions just add to the problems created by TPWD. I can see them enforcing laws concerning normal hunting regulations, but why have they decided they should control the sizes of bucks and not just the numbers of hunters and deer.

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