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Mar 25th, 2012
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Lease vs. small hill country plot #7370866 12/08/18 08:06 PM
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7mag Offline OP
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I really am interested in your opinions on this subject. Hypothetically. Let say you had 100 grand. You were to look at property around Concan, Leakey, Barksdale, Camp Wood or any of that area that I consider Edwards Plateau/Hill Country.

Let's say you could buy ummmmmmmmmmmmmm 40 acres or less for the amount above. No house etc. You would have to foot the bill on a cabin, water etc.Possibility of abundance of game including exotics. You write your own rules and manage it the way you want etc. Close to the Frio River and other rivers for fishing in the off season. Might even look at the place as a possible retirement place, who knows?

2nd option. You were to stay or find a lease of your desire. Let's say 3 grands top, per yr for X amount of yrs. Decent deer, you abide by their rules etc. Exotics etc. if you want them are extra of course. Just like any other lease you are on know etc.

If you have done option ONE I really want your input and how it has worked out. Fail, stupid fail or the best thing I ever did. Option 2 is pretty easy and could get pricier if you wanted a South Texas annual lease lets say 5 to 7 grand, per yr. So going 3 Gs is not going to get you in South Texas.

Even if you have never done it I am still curious which way you would lean and why on the above options. Keep in mind taxes, exemptions etc


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Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370872 12/08/18 08:19 PM
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If you've been leasing on a large ranch to hunt, 40 acres is gonna feel claustrophobic after the intial thrill of "this is my place" wears off. 'Sounds arrogant, I know, but we humans adapt to what we have and always want more.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370873 12/08/18 08:21 PM
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7mag Offline OP
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The places I have leased recently are pretty small. Basically have about 150 acres designated to myself on the lease the way it is split. If that makes sense.

Last edited by 7mag; 12/08/18 08:22 PM.

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Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370879 12/08/18 08:33 PM
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Small places can be great. I've hunted 14 acres and most recently 67 acres and have killed deer on both.

Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370925 12/08/18 09:32 PM
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Owning a smaller place is great if it fits your needs list. If you have lot of game and great neighbors it is great. If you have very little game or bad neighbors you are stuck with it until you decide to sell it. You can not control who your neighbors will be in the future. With a lease if you do not like it you can move to another place. You can get more acreage to hunt for you money. Each option has it positives and negatives. It is what fits your style more.
I would never buy a small place that is or was in a subdivision. If it is for sale it is for sale for a reason. Drilling a well, getting electricity to it, building a cabin or fencing are all going to be extra costs. Power can be the most expensive. Then throw in taxes and taxes on any improvements you make on top of that and it adds up quickly. Land that does not have Ag use taxes or Wildlife use is going to be at a much higher tax rate. You end up buying it from the county as well as the previous land owner.
I bought my own place 6 yrs ago and glad I did. I built a home and have lived on it since then. Very rural and good neighbors also. Hunting right out the front door is good also. Buying it worked out great for me but I looked at a lot of land for sale before I settled on this one.



Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370928 12/08/18 09:37 PM
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Option One.
The cost of bringing in electricity and drilling a water well can be shockingly expensive. No retirement place without.
Then you may end up with water that must be filtered & RO'ed to be useable or a tiny GPH. More equipment & costs.
Septic can be difficult in many areas, unsuitable sub surface conditions cost money to discover. No retirement place without.
Expect $75 - $100 per hour for dozer/machine work to clear/build roads prepare building site / any clearing necessary.

I'm one of those that believe there is no such thing as management on small tracts unless high fenced.
No control & usually no real cooperation from surrounding small tract owners.

Usually you can lease a whole lot more acreage than you can afford to buy. Even at $7000 per year $100,000 will last 14 years / 20 years at $5,000 per.

If it were my decision I'd look for a place I knew for sure I'd like to retire and make sure it was suitable for my intent, access to or already on property water & elec and as many improvements you want as possible.
Property tax valuation 1-d-1 / wildlife or don't buy it unless it ends up being just a few acres or less.

50,000 - 100,000 makes a good down payment on a bigger place or a place with living quarters of some sort already hooked up to services.

In other words, I'd still buy but dang sure would make finding the right place a full time job until I was certain I found the right place.
Just me, I wouldn't buy any land in the anthrax triangle & would put other counties with confirmed occurrences further down on the list.
---> Tx agrilife

Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7370973 12/08/18 10:33 PM
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Buying land has been good to me. I'm not a land shark or anything, but have bought/ sold 15 or more properties in the last dozen years and will truthfully say I've made good money flipping them. And this is after enjoying each one for a couple years each. Hint.....I am retired and living well at age 54, and still sitting on 5 different properties. My trophy room is full of mounts from these properties! This includes from Canada and the midwest, Rocksprings and now the Texas Gulf. Just sold one here, and bought a new one near Goliad area last month.

But you need to be cautious when buying, and buy with selling in the future in mind. Look for a fixer-upper that will increase in value with only simple improvement needed. Has to have ag taxes. Be willing to put in sweat equity and have a plan on improving the property. Always have resale on your mind. And don't jump into nothing if your gut feeling says no. It is scary jumping in like this, but as long as you do ur homework it'll be fine.


Dryberry was the last lake God created and it took the entire seventh day.
Dryberry Lake Sioux Narrows, Ontario, Canada (a.k.a. Heaven)
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7371050 12/09/18 12:15 AM
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I have a buddy who did just that, purchased 40 acres between Mountain Home and Rocksprings in Real County. Hes had it a few months, came with a well that was inop and a pole that needed a box. Hes paid someone to replace the well, build a metal pole barn approximately 30x15. Hes run the power himself and water from the well to save some money. Its a nice little place with exotics in the area, but it does feel cramped. His neighbors are also smaller tracts so we will see how his hunting goes. I know outside of land improvements hes also purchased a travel trailer that needed repairs and an old Ford tractor. Wanna say he got land for $130k, so its a little outside your proposed budget. So far hes enjoying it, time will tell.

I think if I could find something similar with larger neighbors I would attempt it. Or just get with some buddies and pool some money together and buy a little more land. It would have to be some awesome buddies though.


Don't take life so seriously, you'll never make it out alive!
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7371071 12/09/18 12:41 AM
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Yeah I gave that some thought as well. Of more then one owner as in another friend(s), I think that could railroad and be a headache and lost friendship in the end.

Last edited by 7mag; 12/09/18 12:43 AM.

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Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7371077 12/09/18 12:56 AM
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Yeah, or just win the lotto! Ill need to start playing I suppose.


Don't take life so seriously, you'll never make it out alive!
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7371504 12/09/18 04:53 PM
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We own 3 properties in Real county. Love the area. The one hunting property is north of Leakey. I've never hunted there and not seen game. The other 2 places are outside of Camp Wood. Fishing, playing in the Frio and Nueces crystal clear spring fed water. I love it down there, just hate the 6 hour drive. We could easily retire there. I love the hill country.


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Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7373466 12/11/18 05:35 PM
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I know it is different for everyone but I just don't think hunting on 40 acres would suffice my appetite as "hunting." With neighbors and small acreage I tend to look at it more as shooting whatever comes by. Mainly due to the lack of control. If you truly enjoy hunting there is great value in leasing a large tract, especially if you can find the right S. TX property on MLD. I know people who pay $5k to $10k a year and get multiple tags, one gets about 20 each year and is able to enjoy his tags with friends and family.

I also know people who truly enjoy calling a place their own. Whether it is 5 acres or 50 acres they are proud of it and continually work to improve it. They enjoy relaxing on the porch, BBQing on the deck, ect

My personal choice would be to lease.

Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7373484 12/11/18 05:51 PM
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I did just what you described, owned 40 acres, well, internet, mobile home, etc. Had a great time with kids there and made a lot of memories. They got to shoot "trophy" axis, hogs, and exotics passing through and the occasional whitetail. After six years my kids moved on (marriage,jobs,etc) and the place became more work than I wanted to do. Sold it and made money over the cost and improvements. So, in the end it essentially cost very little. After selling, I realized I missed my own place so bought another one, raw land 26 hill country acres but closer to home. If your plan works for you then go for it. I sure did not miss the lease drama and rules.

Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7373531 12/11/18 06:34 PM
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I have leased for many years. So many that I could have purchased my own property by now it feels like. Every where from West Virginia to all over Texas. I have had successfull leases and down right no good leases. The common denominator for good vs bad lease was the price tag. Or leasing through someone who was not Land Owner and not knowing. It has been a learning curve for sure. I have decided to purchase land so I can put my money into something that is going to be mine, manage the way I think is best, and build my land the way I want instead of being placed into a spot as the new guy waiting his turn (nothing wrong with that as most go through the same).

Advantage of leasing
-having more land to work with then you can afford
-land management (hopefully)
-no pain of starting from beginning
-come and go without the headache

Advantage of owning
-ITS YOURS


JD

�Living Life One Round At A Time�
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 1riot1ranger] #7373703 12/11/18 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 1riot1ranger
I did just what you described, owned 40 acres, well, internet, mobile home, etc. Had a great time with kids there and made a lot of memories. They got to shoot "trophy" axis, hogs, and exotics passing through and the occasional whitetail. After six years my kids moved on (marriage,jobs,etc) and the place became more work than I wanted to do. Sold it and made money over the cost and improvements. So, in the end it essentially cost very little. After selling, I realized I missed my own place so bought another one, raw land 26 hill country acres but closer to home. If your plan works for you then go for it. I sure did not miss the lease drama and rules.


Interesting. May I ask what part of the Hill Country, County or nearest town/city? Not looking for specifics just curious where you purchased land. Thanks.


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Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7373732 12/11/18 09:02 PM
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Well the wrong neighbors will sure make you want to get on a lease! I hunt the 50 acres we are building a home on and will be looking for a lease here shortly


~Dustin



"Life's complicated, man, like a dang ol' Rubik's cube, man. Talkin' 'bout blue and red, man. Dang ol' get one side, dang ol' messed up th' other side, man."

-Boomhauer
Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7374978 12/12/18 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 7mag
Originally Posted by 1riot1ranger
I did just what you described, owned 40 acres, well, internet, mobile home, etc. Had a great time with kids there and made a lot of memories. They got to shoot "trophy" axis, hogs, and exotics passing through and the occasional whitetail. After six years my kids moved on (marriage,jobs,etc) and the place became more work than I wanted to do. Sold it and made money over the cost and improvements. So, in the end it essentially cost very little. After selling, I realized I missed my own place so bought another one, raw land 26 hill country acres but closer to home. If your plan works for you then go for it. I sure did not miss the lease drama and rules.


Interesting. May I ask what part of the Hill Country, County or nearest town/city? Not looking for specifics just curious where you purchased land. Thanks.


I'm about 10 miles from Kerrville. Land is less expensive if you go further towards Rocksprings but, I should still see exotics passing through. If it doesn't work out I believe I can sell it without much trouble or losing anything. Re:one of the other posts, I am not a fan of "partner" purchases. If things go south, or you want out for some reason, its harder to do with partners unless they have the available cash to buy you out.

Re: Lease vs. small hill country plot [Re: 7mag] #7376227 12/13/18 10:51 PM
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look at buying 100 acres or so...should be able to do it in the $200000 range (with water and electric). Put 50K down; finance balance with monthly note around $1200 (including taxes...with wildlife exemption). One caveat: 100 acres surrounded by 50-100 acre "ranchettes" could be difficult; 100 acres with larger low fenced neighbors could be awesome.

check out www.landsoftexas.com to see properties in the areas you're interested in. I bought in 2005...zero regrets.

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