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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: J.G.]
#7331631
10/30/18 02:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,526
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,526 |
Leave the whitetail alone, manage accordingly. Add a handful of Axis. This^^^^^^and maybe a handful of bison.....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331638
10/30/18 02:29 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 429
Exiled
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 429 |
I'll play! I would add axis deer and blackbuck antelope. Both do well in Texas, are fun and challenging to hunt, and yield great meat. They also reproduce and grow relatively quickly. I think native Bandera Co. whitetail can be managed for development in a high-fence ranch with the right feed and selective hunting, which is sometimes tough on low-fenced properties that may not be surrounded by like-minded QDMers.
"Who Dares, Wins" Instagram: @HCConnected
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: Big_Ag]
#7331650
10/30/18 02:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
I’m in the “no exotics to compete with the whitetail” camp. Build a 15 or so acre high fence in a prime habitat area of the ranch that includes cover and a permanent water source. Buy 15 bred high end genetic does, preferably 3 or 4 years old from 2 or 3 sources and put in the 15 acres along with a breeder buck from another source. The does will have their fawns and then be bred back by the breeder buck. The spring of year two after the does have been bred back, release all the deer in the 15 acres onto the ranch. You want to do this in the spring after the bucks have shed their antlers so any native bucks won’t kill your young improved genetic yearling bucks or the breeder buck.
During the two years you are building your high end genetics to release, kill as many of the native does as possible (I guarantee you won’t be able to kill them all). Does contribute more to the gene pool than bucks, but you can’t tell which native does have good genetics, so remove as many as possible, You know the high end does you release do possess superior genes and you want these does to be your ongoing breeding stock. Your high end does will be tagged when they are delivered to your ranch, so this will enable you to protect them from hunters once they are liberated out of the 15 acres.
I’d also try and kill as many of the native bucks, but if you have some better than average genetics, you may want to establish a cull criteria on the native bucks. After the deer are liberated and you are waiting on the improved genetic bucks to grow up, you could add some stocker bucks to hunt. You may also want to add 3 or 4 more bred does every few years to continue diversifying the genetics.
This model works, but does take some patience. Great idea, if you could release them after two years. Unfortunately, under current TPWD regulations that came about due to CWD, all imported deer (and offspring) must remain on the release site. Otherwise, you'll fall back to NMQ and have to submit 80% of all fatalities or hunter killed deer for CWD testing. For three years, I believe. I could be wrong on the duration. Now days, the very best method of improving your genetics and top end deer are DMP pens.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331698
10/30/18 03:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 909
Triplesnake
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 909 |
I'd manage the WT herd and make habitat improvements and start a supplemental feeding program to maximize the genetic potential of the native deer. Them I'd add a handful of Axis because I like the way they look and taste. And then, depending on the terrain, I'd chose between Blackbuck (if there is a more open area for them to hang out in) or white Fallow (if the land is more forested.) I like both of those exotics for the way they look and the hunting / eating potential, although I favor fallow as table fare.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331727
10/30/18 03:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170
Jimbo
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 6,170 |
I'd concentrate my efforts to developing the whitetail population and later maybe a few Axis. Too much competition will cause problems.
Thursday at 12:45 PM #33 Once i learned that i didn't "NEED" to kill something, and that if i did kill something all the fun stopped and work began, i was a much better hunter.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: fouzman]
#7331730
10/30/18 03:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
I’m in the “no exotics to compete with the whitetail” camp. Build a 15 or so acre high fence in a prime habitat area of the ranch that includes cover and a permanent water source. Buy 15 bred high end genetic does, preferably 3 or 4 years old from 2 or 3 sources and put in the 15 acres along with a breeder buck from another source. The does will have their fawns and then be bred back by the breeder buck. The spring of year two after the does have been bred back, release all the deer in the 15 acres onto the ranch. You want to do this in the spring after the bucks have shed their antlers so any native bucks won’t kill your young improved genetic yearling bucks or the breeder buck.
During the two years you are building your high end genetics to release, kill as many of the native does as possible (I guarantee you won’t be able to kill them all). Does contribute more to the gene pool than bucks, but you can’t tell which native does have good genetics, so remove as many as possible, You know the high end does you release do possess superior genes and you want these does to be your ongoing breeding stock. Your high end does will be tagged when they are delivered to your ranch, so this will enable you to protect them from hunters once they are liberated out of the 15 acres.
I’d also try and kill as many of the native bucks, but if you have some better than average genetics, you may want to establish a cull criteria on the native bucks. After the deer are liberated and you are waiting on the improved genetic bucks to grow up, you could add some stocker bucks to hunt. You may also want to add 3 or 4 more bred does every few years to continue diversifying the genetics.
This model works, but does take some patience. Great idea, if you could release them after two years. Unfortunately, under current TPWD regulations that came about due to CWD, all imported deer (and offspring) must remain on the release site. Otherwise, you'll fall back to NMQ and have to submit 80% of all fatalities or hunter killed deer for CWD testing. For three years, I believe. I could be wrong on the duration. Now days, the very best method of improving your genetics and top end deer are DMP pens. TTT
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331738
10/30/18 03:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 548
SenkoSamurai
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 548 |
Giraffes and a few zebras
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331750
10/30/18 03:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,544
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,544 |
I would only want to manage the native WT. I would only bring in deer to keep from inbreeding down the line and I would hope to be able to somehow capture deer from my LF neighbors to accomplish this.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: stxranchman]
#7331767
10/30/18 03:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605 |
I’m in the “no exotics to compete with the whitetail” camp. Build a 15 or so acre high fence in a prime habitat area of the ranch that includes cover and a permanent water source. Buy 15 bred high end genetic does, preferably 3 or 4 years old from 2 or 3 sources and put in the 15 acres along with a breeder buck from another source. The does will have their fawns and then be bred back by the breeder buck. The spring of year two after the does have been bred back, release all the deer in the 15 acres onto the ranch. You want to do this in the spring after the bucks have shed their antlers so any native bucks won’t kill your young improved genetic yearling bucks or the breeder buck.
During the two years you are building your high end genetics to release, kill as many of the native does as possible (I guarantee you won’t be able to kill them all). Does contribute more to the gene pool than bucks, but you can’t tell which native does have good genetics, so remove as many as possible, You know the high end does you release do possess superior genes and you want these does to be your ongoing breeding stock. Your high end does will be tagged when they are delivered to your ranch, so this will enable you to protect them from hunters once they are liberated out of the 15 acres.
I’d also try and kill as many of the native bucks, but if you have some better than average genetics, you may want to establish a cull criteria on the native bucks. After the deer are liberated and you are waiting on the improved genetic bucks to grow up, you could add some stocker bucks to hunt. You may also want to add 3 or 4 more bred does every few years to continue diversifying the genetics.
This model works, but does take some patience. Great idea, if you could release them after two years. Unfortunately, under current TPWD regulations that came about due to CWD, all imported deer (and offspring) must remain on the release site. Otherwise, you'll fall back to NMQ and have to submit 80% of all fatalities or hunter killed deer for CWD testing. For three years, I believe. I could be wrong on the duration. Now days, the very best method of improving your genetics and top end deer are DMP pens. TTT We've done that twice. Problem with TTT is you never know for sure what you're getting in the does.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331778
10/30/18 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,759
snake oil
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,759 |
I'd manage the native WT. If I needed some axis to eat just go elsewhere and plug a couple.
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas".
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7331800
10/30/18 03:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,614
1860.colt
emoji colt.45
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emoji colt.45
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,614 |
i'm postaddic
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: 1860.colt]
#7334676
11/01/18 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
therancher
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179 |
Don’t waste money bringing in superior genetic WT unless you kill all natives first. Or, you can waste the next 20 yrs proving for the several thousandth time that natives genetics will drag your high dollar deer back down to their level. If you want more than a max of 160” then you’ll need something other than natives (I’m right. Anyone who disagrees is wrong).
Antelope don’t compete much with WT. I have ~ 40 scimitar, some kudu, over 40 blackbuck and 13 Arabians in a 350 acre pasture with my improved WT (~ 100 WT). I feed alfalfa in the winter and it’s relatively cheap.
Axis are popular but they are hard to hold on my ranch and values are low compared to WT. plus you have to feed lots of does for a sustainable herd. Only deer species I’ll raise now are WT for that reason.
Oryx male and female have trophy value so if you’re interested in $ that’s something to consider. Elk are super hard to hold. Plus elk, red stag, and sika are under cwd restrictions so you have to test harvested animals (a risk I won’t take).
Last edited by therancher; 11/01/18 08:17 PM.
Crotchety old bastidge
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7334856
11/01/18 11:09 PM
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,540
BayouGuy
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,540 |
Given the size of any hunting property I'd ever likely own, I think I'd best plan on New Zealand white rabbits, Peruvian guinea pigs and European hamsters. Then I could brag about the exotics on my property.
If you can't laugh at yourself, give me a call. I'll gladly laugh at you. "I keep trying to see Nancy Pelosi's and Chuck Schumer's point of view, but I can't seem to get my head that far up my [censored]." Senator John Kennedy, Louisiana
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: BayouGuy]
#7334909
11/02/18 12:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346
Duck_Hunter
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,346 |
Given the size of any hunting property I'd ever likely own, I think I'd best plan on New Zealand white rabbits, Peruvian guinea pigs and European hamsters. Then I could brag about the exotics on my property. Peruvian guinea pigs eat pretty good if you make a nice sauce to go with them.
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7335440
11/02/18 01:07 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,948
txtrophy85
OP
THF Celebrity
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OP
THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,948 |
Ok, I’ll throw in my answer.
While Hill Country native genetics can produce some nice racks they aren’t gonna be south Texas type deer, so I would leave the native stock in place and manage them secondary to my two exotics, axis deer and a large sheep type like a stumberg or Hill Country bighorn
For me, axis are such good table far and are pretty much a staple game animal thst I would want them.
I’m also a sheep nut and these Hill Country bighorns have intrigued me, when I didn’t think they would be successful, the stumbergs are beautiful as well and quite large, both of which I like
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7335460
11/02/18 01:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 705
Age N Score ?
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 705 |
I'm thinking about going to the sale barn and getting some longhorns and offer hunts. If they are in fact getting $1400 for one, it might be worth it. Buy them as yearlings, turn them out for a few years then bring in some hunters. I don't have any livestock on my place and the grass is stirrup deep. Over the last few years the only thing I've done is plant black eyed peas for the deer. The dang hogs stay after it, but it give me something to shoot at all the time and the deer seem to be doing well on it. For me I don't want anything but WT and I'm willing to wait for them to mature/ I do enjoy sitting in the blinds watching them go after my Indian Corn. But I don't want to add any other types of wildlife to my place.
I Feed Indian Corn. The deer love it and all the colors make them stay at the feeder longer.
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7336717
11/03/18 09:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124
LandPirate
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,124 |
Hire Augustus McRae as your foreman and let him raise a herd...a herd of whores, maybe.
Mike Buda, Tx Hunt near Freer
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7336748
11/03/18 10:06 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,235
Fltmedic
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,235 |
If Axis were not already on the ranch I would add them, if there was already a herd of Axis I would go with red stags as my first choice. Second if I had another choice would be blackbuck. As most have stated I would try to manage the original WT herd that exists.
Don't take life so seriously, you'll never make it out alive!
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7336758
11/03/18 10:20 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307
BowsnRods
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307 |
Stay away from red deer, very distructive, been there done that!!!!!
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Re: Let’s play a hypothetical....stocking your Ranch
[Re: txtrophy85]
#7337420
11/04/18 09:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461
rifleman
Sparkly Pants
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Sparkly Pants
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 44,461 |
Wipe out the whitetail. Then add camels, goats and llamas.
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