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4th Amendment & Game Wardens #7332078 10/30/18 06:47 PM
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I had an interesting conversation about the legality of Game Wardens entering private property pertaining to 4th Amendment rights.

I met a ranch neighbor that is a current LEO and we were discussing our past rookie GW. I had issues with the rookie GW and found out I wasn't the only one. He mentioned several issues where the rookie GW drove onto private property and harassed the land owners. He also mentioned that the land owners notified the GW supervisor and the rookie was instructed to stay away from those ranches. The rookie GW also mentioned to the LEO that "game wardens have more authority than state troopers" and "he can go anywhere he wants to go and search anything he wants to search". The LEO informed the rookie GW that he better retake his 4th Amendment class because if he caught him on his land without permission, he would issue him a trespassing citation and let the judge decide. Very interesting to hear about their differences and both being officers of the state.

After some reading of the 4th amendment pertaining to private property and searches, what are THF thoughts?

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332085 10/30/18 06:52 PM
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https://www.statesman.com/sports/20121031/leggett-game-wardens-powers-shrouded-in-mystery

Your LEO friend better retake his 4th Amendment class with respect to a GW entering private property.

[/b]Wardens are allowed to enter public and private property to enforce game laws, Kennedy said, any place where animals under state jurisdiction are known to exist. In Texas, that would be pretty much any property. And they can, while on that property, ask to inspect any receptacles ó game bags, ice chests, etc. ó where game is known to be stored.[b]

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332089 10/30/18 06:57 PM
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Not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating what he said.

I read that too.....But also read that if a GW is wanted conduct a legal search, he must also have consent or a warrant to search a house or vehicle.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332105 10/30/18 07:11 PM
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What was he doing to 'harrass' the landowner? One of my old LOs got a ticket for going over his limit on dove and was ripping the new GW to me. Said he didn't know who he was messing with, 3rd or 4th generation in the county. I just said, ok. Maybe count your birds better next time...

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332138 10/30/18 07:42 PM
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From what he told me, they were on the ranch checking cattle. At dark they were pulling out of their gate and the GW drove up on them at a high rate of speed and almost wrecked into their truck. GW proceeded to jump out and draw his firearm against them. Accused them of poaching and several other things. Verbal argument ensued and landowner immediately told GW to remove himself from his land and called local LEOs in the area as well as his supervisor. Supervisor told GW to drop it and leave immediately. Landowner is old, doesn't hunt, and has more money than his G-G-Great grandkids can spend.

My experience, long story short, he was watching us for over 2 hours while we were spotlighting on some wheat fields just off the CR. Drove onto our ranch "blacked" out until he got up to us and bailed out with his hand on his firearm screaming for us to "Get your f$%^ hands up!" We complied and the discussion began. I became extremely angry when I found out he was watching us so long and still came up on us so aggressively. We had nothing to hide and always abide by the regulations. Told him I was done talking and he could leave.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332161 10/30/18 08:00 PM
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Treat them with respect be honest and donít break the law and they wonít bother you. You act rude or shady or get caught doing something wrong you will be checked regularly. I get checked pretty often on Ft Hood. Most of the Wardens know me well now and just ask me if I have seen any illegal or suspect activity. They donít even check me anymore bc they know I do the right thing.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332169 10/30/18 08:06 PM
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Wholeheartedly Agree!

Never had any issues with the previous or any other GW for that matter. Never received a citation.


Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332171 10/30/18 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Told him I was done talking and he could leave.


LOL, that isn't how it works when an investigation is being conducted.


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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332174 10/30/18 08:11 PM
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His "investigation", as you call it, was over.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332191 10/30/18 08:21 PM
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I once had one ask to see my license while I was near the barn working on a tractor. He had asked me earlier if I had been hunting recently and I told him yes. Then he asked me if I had killed anything to which I again replied yes. Then he asked to see my license, which I did. I thought later did he really believe I might not have a license after volunteering that I had been hunting and had killed something?

Now Iím wondering if our local constable is going to stop and ask to see my driverís license when he sees me changing the oil in my truck.

Iím sorry but I donít see asking a man to see his hunting license while heís working on his tractor as being respectful of him.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 10/30/18 08:26 PM.

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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332197 10/30/18 08:25 PM
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He was probably checking your harvest log on the back of your license, if you were deer hunting. One of the most common violations.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: fouzman] #7332201 10/30/18 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: fouzman
He was probably checking your harvest log on the back of your license, if you were deer hunting. One of the most common violations.


That could only have been done completely by checking the person on the day of the harvest when both the tag and harvest record could be seen at the same time. Harvest records can be completed long after the actual harvest when the tag is in a dumpster somewhere.


Dan,

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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: Texas Dan] #7332204 10/30/18 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan


Now Iím wondering if our local constable is going to stop and ask to see my driverís license when he sees me changing the oil in my truck.


I think this is what I was referring too with my post. Now, don't get me wrong, I have the upmost respect of LE. However, whenever you are faced with a subject like this, that abuse power, I will stand my ground. As, I think, most everyone on here would. I just really hope this isn't something that is being taught within the department and is just an isolated case. If it's the latter, he probably won't be around much longer. The guys in Nolan county are about to find out.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332235 10/30/18 08:53 PM
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I go into the season expecting to see a warden or two and I fully expect them to be arses because they have been in the past. I carry my license and hunters education in a clear pouch on a lanyard around my neck at all times when on the property. Fill out the harvest log before I even load the animal.

I'll take no chances after watching a few episodes of Lone Star Law



Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: titan2232] #7332308 10/30/18 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: titan2232
I'll take no chances after watching a few episodes of Lone Star Law


Yes, you can tell the ones who live for writing tickets.


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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: Texas Dan] #7332336 10/30/18 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: fouzman
He was probably checking your harvest log on the back of your license, if you were deer hunting. One of the most common violations.


That could only have been done completely by checking the person on the day of the harvest when both the tag and harvest record could be seen at the same time. Harvest records can be completed long after the actual harvest when the tag is in a dumpster somewhere.

But if you dont fill out the log and have a tag missing he can ticket you. Sure you can say the dog tore it off. You might have to convince a judge of that though.


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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: decook] #7332343 10/30/18 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: decook
Originally Posted By: Texas Dan
Originally Posted By: fouzman
He was probably checking your harvest log on the back of your license, if you were deer hunting. One of the most common violations.


That could only have been done completely by checking the person on the day of the harvest when both the tag and harvest record could be seen at the same time. Harvest records can be completed long after the actual harvest when the tag is in a dumpster somewhere.

But if you dont fill out the log and have a tag missing he can ticket you. Sure you can say the dog tore it off. You might have to convince a judge of that though.


Fishing guide told me a story of his client that bought a super combo, never hunted and discarded the unused tags to make his license smaller in the wallet. While fishing the next spring he was checked and received a ticket for not filling out the harvest log......I understand why they have it but it seems to be a revenue generator more than anything to me.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332366 10/30/18 11:03 PM
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You know, There ainít enough shortage of Redfish, Deer, Yotes, or Hogs these days to justify bugging the hell outta folk for round the clock hunting or fishing.

Hey, yíall tresspassing, got a license...ok bye.

Last edited by Treinta-Treinta; 10/30/18 11:07 PM.



John 5:24
Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7332638 10/31/18 03:13 AM
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These threads are great popcorn

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7333295 10/31/18 06:38 PM
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If anyone were to challenge a search by a game warden up it would probably be found unconstitutional if done without a warrant, constitutionally they are a LEO just like any other. But the vast majority of arrests/citations made by game wardens are pretty low level misdemeanors and no one is going to pay the thousands of dollars it would take to appeal one up to the higher level courts and challenge the constitutionality. I've only heard of one case that I believe was from Arkansas that did that and the game warden was found to be in violation of the 4th A.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: SR025] #7333349 10/31/18 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: SR025
These threads are great popcorn
clap


Originally Posted By: skinnerback
Milf does the trick.

"You're statistically more likely to be killed by Hillary Clinton than an NRA member. - PolitiDiva

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7333395 10/31/18 07:53 PM
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A warrantless search of the area outside a property owner's curtilage does not violate the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-fields_doctrine

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7333421 10/31/18 08:12 PM
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SnakeWrangler, all those NRA members look the same to Hillary.




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Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: Treinta-Treinta] #7333450 10/31/18 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted By: Treinta-Treinta
SnakeWrangler, all those NRA members look the same to Hillary.


Had a little girl trick or treating dressed up as Hillary Clinton come up to the door, but she wouldn't leave, I thought it was a nice touch.

Re: 4th Amendment & Game Wardens [Re: TX Hitman] #7333461 10/31/18 08:52 PM
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Both LEOs and GWs are equally restricted by the 4th. You have lots of good LEOs and GWs who play by the rules. But sometimes you do get LEOs or GWs that overstep or outright abuse their authority. Most such overstepping or abuse goes unchallenged, because as kk66 said - most people don't want to spend time and money challenging it. In any case, no one should assume that a GW has some special power and isn't restricted by the Constitution the same as any LEO.

Last edited by Binary; 10/31/18 08:54 PM.
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