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6.5 Creed primers #7298402 09/26/18 07:57 PM
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what do yall prefer in the creed with H4350 CCI200, CCI450, fed205 I have not loaded much with CCI so not to familiar with them as the Fed, with Lapua brass

Last edited by Branden; 09/26/18 07:57 PM.
Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298536 09/26/18 10:40 PM
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In Lapua brass with the small rifle primer, I would recommend the CCI #450 or #41 primer. Both are magnum and have a thick primer cup to handle the pressures and help with the large firing pin (if you have that). The Fed 205's are a thinner primer cup and pierce very easy. CCI #250 is a large rifle primer.



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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298555 09/26/18 10:57 PM
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Fed 210 for me.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298565 09/26/18 11:06 PM
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in my head to head testing, cci 200 out shot cci BR2 in my rifles, i haven't tried magnum primers, don't see the need with the large primers, might need if using the small primer brass.
I'm currently running Starline brass in one rifle and Hornady in the other, I like the Starline much better than the Hornady, and don't see paying the excess price for Lapua when these will shoot 1/2" or better. I don't mind annealing my own brass, otherwise i'd consider Lapua.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298714 09/27/18 01:55 AM
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210

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298750 09/27/18 02:43 AM
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Fed 210

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7298782 09/27/18 03:20 AM
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Guys, if it's Lapua brass, it's a small rifle primer. A Fed 210 is a large rifle primer. Yes, I recommend and use a Fed 210 primer in my 6.5 CM ammo, but with Hornady brass. When using Lapua, it's a small primer, and changes things up.



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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: ChadTRG42] #7298917 09/27/18 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Guys, if it's Lapua brass, it's a small rifle primer. A Fed 210 is a large rifle primer. Yes, I recommend and use a Fed 210 primer in my 6.5 CM ammo, but with Hornady brass. When using Lapua, it's a small primer, and changes things up.


Chad, to your experience, is there a difference in accuracy between the small and large rifle primers?

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7299025 09/27/18 02:41 PM
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Lapua is the most consistent brass I have ever used. The small rifle primers in that size case I think startd with the Palma 308 brass and that is a game for accuracy. I have never used the small primer brass in 308 or 6.5 Creed but you do not worry about primer pockets getting loose with them and that helps extend brass life for more relads per brass piece.


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7299026 09/27/18 02:43 PM
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Chad what brass are you using with the large pockets Starline? Are you running the Large primer pockets so you can run little more higher pressure. My understanding the small pockets might not tolerate the low temps as good with the standard primers with the CCI200 or Fed205, and the smaller pock will give you the superior ignition for accuracy and low ES

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7299184 09/27/18 05:37 PM
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I use the regular Hornady brass for 6.5 cm with a fed 210 or 210M. It works fine.

But with the Lapua brass, it's a small primer, not large. The advantage is the brass case will last much much longer than the large primer will. You should get at least 10-20 reloads on the Lapua brass. There's more meat around the small primer pocket, so it does not wear out near as quick. And, if you want to hot rod the round more, the small primer will handle it much better than the large primer will. Imo, you need a magnum primer for this size of case in a small primer round. I run cci #450 in my personal 6.5X47 ammo.

And yes, the small primer will help reduce your es numbers. It is more efficient. If you want better consistency, then the Lapua brass will certainly give you that. But the brass is 3X the cost of hornady. Is it worth it to you? That depends. This is the main reason I went with the 6.5X47, was the better brass, more consistent round, and longer case life.



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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7299809 09/28/18 12:36 PM
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Missed the Lapua part. My bad. I use the 210 match with my large rifle primer Hornady brass. Very low ES/SD and very good accuracy.

For small rifle primers, I have no input. Sounds like Chad's had good luck with the 450, so that's where I'd start.

Chad - do you know if you have to get your firing pin bushed for small rifle primers in a tikka? I'd heard that might be a possiblity, but never had any really good info one way or the other.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7302506 10/01/18 08:28 PM
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Chad, did you get your bolt brushed to run the small rifle primers?

Also Starline makes small rifle primer 6.5 creed brass.


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Gwood88] #7302553 10/01/18 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: patriot07
Chad - do you know if you have to get your firing pin bushed for small rifle primers in a tikka? I'd heard that might be a possiblity, but never had any really good info one way or the other.

Originally Posted By: Gwood88
Chad, did you get your bolt brushed to run the small rifle primers?


I had to have my Surgeon 591 action (Rem 700 style) bolt bushed to a small firing pin to run the small rifle primers in my 6.5x47 Lapua. Gre-Tan did the work. In it's standard form, it did fine, but out of about 100 rounds, I would get a pierced primer on about 5-10 rounds. One is not a big problem, but multiple is. It blows gas and tiny metal primer pieces that will jam up your firing pin and mainly your trigger. My Surgeon will remain a 6.5x47 now. I have multiple 308's to shoot, and a switch barrel 308 Win barrel that goes to my Surgeon also. But I have 2 other 308's right now, and won't need that barrel unless I have a dedicated 308 match to shoot.

The Tikka's I have seen run fine with the small rifle primers. I think they run a slightly smaller firing pin than a Rem does. I would try it and see first before sending your bolt off. But run a magnum primer, like a CCI #450 or #41 primer. I highly do NOT recommend a Fed 205 or CCI #400. Their primer cups are too thin and pierce very easily.



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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303101 10/02/18 12:58 PM
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Remington 7 1/2 and CCI BR4 are a couple other primers with thick cups that should work well in the small primer cases.



But if I had or could find CCI 450s that is where I would start


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303329 10/02/18 04:21 PM
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Didn't Tubb state that there was no advantage to using the small primers for the 6.5CM? I believe he did.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Jgraider] #7303341 10/02/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Didn't Tubb state that there was no advantage to using the small primers for the 6.5CM? I believe he did.


If there is no advantage, then what's the disadvantage?



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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303441 10/02/18 06:35 PM
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Thanks!

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: ChadTRG42] #7303611 10/02/18 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Originally Posted By: Jgraider
Didn't Tubb state that there was no advantage to using the small primers for the 6.5CM? I believe he did.


If there is no advantage, then what's the disadvantage?


Maybe I'll ask him next time I see him, if I remember.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303620 10/02/18 10:06 PM
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Here's a good thread:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthread..._Rifle_primers_


This per Lane Pearce with Shooting Times:

Altogether, I tested 16 batches of test loads and discerned a definite "better" performance bias with most of the small rifle primers. With a couple of exceptions, there was very little difference in average velocities, but the small rifle primers almost always delivered reduced standard deviations and improved accuracy. I consulted Dave Emary, Hornady's chief ballistic and originator of the 6.5 Creedmoor, to share the good news. He promptly poured cold water on my results. He goes on to say basically that Emary says typical 6.5 Creedmoor powder charges are too large to reliably ignite with small rifle primers under all conditions. Then Pearce goes on to say he con suited with Hodgdon Powder on this and their rep agreed. For even more confirmation, he was told the potential rewards from using the small primer in 6.5 Creedmoor were out weighed by the risks, especially when trying double based powders to achieve higher velocities.
Wordy, yes, but it tells me all I need to know. I am plenty happy with Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor brass and (although I did try Lapua SP brass) I will b e sticking with it.


From Barsness in the same thread.......

On his website David Tubb says: A detailed study of large and small rifle primers showed that large rifle primers worked best when the propellant charge exceeds 35 grains as is the case with the 6XC. I would consider Tubb the last word on the 6XC.

Since the 6.5 Creedmoor normally uses more than 35 grains of powder, I haven't bothered with the small-primer Lapua cases, partly because I've had such great results with Hornady brass.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Jgraider] #7303699 10/02/18 11:48 PM
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That researched is somewhat tainted. Plenty of some of the world's best riflemen have had great successes with a small rifle primer in the 6.5 and 6 Creedmoor. Dee has done well with a small rifle primer in 7mm-08 A.I. burning even more powder than the 6 and 6.5. It even says in the article "almost always delivered reduced SDs and improved accuracy". No real precision shooter is going to use a double base powder. They are going to use a very temp stable, reliable powder, period. So who cares if the small rifle primer reduces velocity? If the cartridge and rifle shoot almost exactly the same every time the trigger is squeezed, that is far more important. Add the fact that there is more metal around the primer pocket of a small rifle primer pocket in a .473" bolt face, and it is a solid winner. Brass life is also extended, using a small rifle primer, with a regular annealing cycle.


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303775 10/03/18 12:58 AM
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I don't know enough about it to have a solid opinion, but I figure Tubb knows more than anyone else about this stuff so I'll take his word for it. Not really worth arguing about anyway because I really don't care. I just thought I'd present views from legitimate experts, that's all.

Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303795 10/03/18 01:29 AM
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He offers both small and large rifle brass in XC now. He said in his initial testing it was no advantage. Amu (another group known for accuracy standards) said it was beneficial as did German Salazar but sadly his papers/articles are all gone.

As Jason mentioned I've ran several thousand 7mm-08ai with lapua Palma (308 small rifle primer brass) with a severely compressed loads and had 0 ignition problems in all weather conditions. I saw no advantage of running match primers (both cci and federal) in my setup as the sd on strings was the same.


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Branden] #7303805 10/03/18 01:34 AM
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OP. If you have lapua be aware that the flash hole is ppc diameter and will require a smaller decapping pin than normal. I use the Redding universal that has it for mine and it works great.


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Re: 6.5 Creed primers [Re: Jgraider] #7303816 10/03/18 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jgraider
I don't know enough about it to have a solid opinion, but I figure Tubb knows more than anyone else about this stuff so I'll take his word for it. Not really worth arguing about anyway because I really don't care. I just thought I'd present views from legitimate experts, that's all.


Your "legitimate experts" are not exactly correct. And Tubb doesn't know everything, same as the rest of us. However, there are plenty of hand loaders/shooters willing to put down real life experiments and learn what they can, by shooting their loads on the range. And that's not a 100 yard range, where a "bad load" can still shoot well.


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