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Disheartening Trailcam Photo
#7276668
09/04/18 09:45 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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OP
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Especially with so many fawns on the ground and the country drier than a popcorn fart.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276670
09/04/18 09:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 11,573
dlrz71
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Cool pic
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276674
09/04/18 09:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,965
Texas buckeye
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some healthy looking yotes, look to be eating good.
trap em or shoot em
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7276681
09/04/18 10:06 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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some healthy looking yotes, look to be eating good. That's what's so disheartening. Drought + these guys (cats too) will probably result in -0- fawn crop. We have a helluva deer herd, but if it can't replenish, we're just wizzing in the wind. Looks to me like a momma in the middle teaching her son and daughter how to hunt.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276688
09/04/18 10:18 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,307
BowsnRods
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I agree fouzman, I have more game cam pictures of coyotes this year than in years past. I've been working on them, but they have also become smarter!
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276915
09/05/18 01:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,279
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Jul 2014
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Good time of the year to hunt em'. You have a FoxPro?
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276935
09/05/18 01:50 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 35,854
txshntr
T-Rex Arms
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T-Rex Arms
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276945
09/05/18 01:58 AM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 6,279
onlysmith&wesson
THF Trophy Hunter
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Rabbit distress, mouse.....shot a young one last year on rabbit. He ran in so fast I didn't think there was anyway I'd get him to stop. Seriously, they hunt hard now while they're learning like you're seeing. I have noticed that a little hunting pressure makes them a little scarce.
An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7276949
09/05/18 02:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,214
deerfeeder
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They don't look mangy either. Looks like some time spent calling is needed. Good news is the pups will have to find new hunting areas pretty soon.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277002
09/05/18 03:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,965
Texas buckeye
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High fence and I can understand the concerns, deer don’t have anywhere to escape and coyotes will know that as well as you do. Low fence and it’s just part of nature. Studies out east have shown similar fawn recruitment with heavy coyote hunting vs none. In some areas where there are not any known coyotes yet, fawn recruitment is similar to areas with heavy coyote pressure. Raises the question are they actually killing healthy fawns or just doing work for you to reduce the sick and dead ones? Also, studies of heavy coyote hunting didn’t reduce overall numbers as different coyotes simply moved into the area.
Similar studies found fawn survival in the first month was very environmental in nature (rain, cold, etc). Natures gonna do what nature wants to
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277027
09/05/18 03:26 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 11,857
Simple Searcher
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Heck it’s a HF, them coyotes can’t get away, it is like fish in a barrel. Clearly I am kidding. But snaring holes under the fence we were able to eliminate a few coyotes that got in.
"Man is still a hunter, still a simple searcher after meat..." Robert C. Ruark
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277031
09/05/18 03:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 29,609
SapperTitan
Taking Requests
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Taking Requests
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Ive killed 5 coyotes in the last month. Still seeing a lot of fawns at night with the thermal. I watched a group of 5 for the other night with 3 fawns with them.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: Simple Searcher]
#7277189
09/05/18 12:48 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,605
fouzman
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Heck it’s a HF, them coyotes can’t get away, it is like fish in a barrel. Clearly I am kidding. But snaring holes under the fence we were able to eliminate a few coyotes that got in. We have very few holes under our fence, and all of those have snares. The hunting them part is a matter of time. I just don't have it. Gonna look into hiring someone who does predator control after we fly the ranch in November. That is IF I'm seeing very low fawn numbers and or lots of predators.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277227
09/05/18 01:17 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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Much to our dismay and contrary to our efforts we have a large and in charge coyote population and in the 11 years we have owned the place we have never been close to a 0% fawn crop. I don't like seeing them either, but they are as natural as the deer are.
Last edited by redchevy; 09/05/18 01:17 PM.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277275
09/05/18 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 346
Daddybigbuck
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 346 |
You have some work to do!
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277297
09/05/18 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811
TxAg
Extreme Tracker
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,811 |
Our fawn recruitment numbrs are coming in about 30% lower than average. Have also found 5 fawn carcasses in the past month. I think the yotes are hammering them this year with the lack of cover.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: dlrz71]
#7277478
09/05/18 04:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 6,135
landsurveyor
THF Trophy Hunter
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Cool pic
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7277486
09/05/18 04:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655
colt45-90
Texas colt45
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Texas colt45
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,655 |
High fence and I can understand the concerns, deer don’t have anywhere to escape and coyotes will know that as well as you do. Low fence and it’s just part of nature. Studies out east have shown similar fawn recruitment with heavy coyote hunting vs none. In some areas where there are not any known coyotes yet, fawn recruitment is similar to areas with heavy coyote pressure. Raises the question are they actually killing healthy fawns or just doing work for you to reduce the sick and dead ones? Also, studies of heavy coyote hunting didn’t reduce overall numbers as different coyotes simply moved into the area.
Similar studies found fawn survival in the first month was very environmental in nature (rain, cold, etc). Natures gonna do what nature wants to even low fence is a problem,have seen videos that yotes have pursued deer until it is fatigued and can't get away
hold on Newt, we got a runaway
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277509
09/05/18 05:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,965
Texas buckeye
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And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.
And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277544
09/05/18 05:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 43,769
Stub
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Chootem Rancher up the road from me said he is seeing plenty of does, very few fawns he think yotes are getting them
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277574
09/05/18 06:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Coyotes take down way more deer than most people realize. Way more. I managed a ranch that had a predator wire and a concrete footer down 16" to keep predators out. Fawn crops were huge no matter what the weather was like every year. We had bobcats but with no cattle the grass was very tall and full of rats/mice/rabbits, so the bobcats had plenty. The last 3 yrs we shot the adult doe numbers down. We then started shooting doe fawns the first year. Based on what we thought we had for does and the amount of doe fawns killed each year, we knew we were getting over a 125% fawn crop every year and probably closer to 150%. We could also tell by the amount of yearling bucks each year. We kept pulling adult doe numbers down based off the fawn numbers to were it was more manageable. In bad drought times a doe might walk away from a fawn if she only has enough feed to keep her alive. Some does will stay hide and bones to raise a fawn(s). The key with any fawn crop is fawning cover IME.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7277589
09/05/18 06:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.
And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer. Interesting read. http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/conservation/much-impact-predators-whitetails/
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: fouzman]
#7277594
09/05/18 06:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,965
Texas buckeye
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Fawning cover and edge cover is what I have read/learned. Fawns need edges to be able to evade and escape from predators.
But yes, cover is number one on the list of things to do to improve fawn recruitment. predator control is in the list for sure, but not nearly as important as cover. maternal health is probably equal to or more important than predator control.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7277608
09/05/18 06:18 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,948
don k
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And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.
And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer. This was not a unhealthy Ibex.
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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo
[Re: stxranchman]
#7277610
09/05/18 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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The key with any fawn crop is fawning cover IME. Im a believer we have no stock on our property, lots of cover and tall grass year round.
It's hell eatin em live
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