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Disheartening Trailcam Photo #7276668 09/04/18 09:45 PM
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fouzman Offline OP
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Especially with so many fawns on the ground and the country drier than a popcorn fart.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276670 09/04/18 09:47 PM
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Cool pic rifle

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276674 09/04/18 09:53 PM
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some healthy looking yotes, look to be eating good.

trap em or shoot em

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: Texas buckeye] #7276681 09/04/18 10:06 PM
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fouzman Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
some healthy looking yotes, look to be eating good.


That's what's so disheartening. Drought + these guys (cats too) will probably result in -0- fawn crop. We have a helluva deer herd, but if it can't replenish, we're just wizzing in the wind. Looks to me like a momma in the middle teaching her son and daughter how to hunt.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276688 09/04/18 10:18 PM
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I agree fouzman, I have more game cam pictures of coyotes this year than in years past. I've been working on them, but they have also become smarter!

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276915 09/05/18 01:37 AM
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Good time of the year to hunt em'. You have a FoxPro?


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276935 09/05/18 01:50 AM
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Time to get after them!


Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276945 09/05/18 01:58 AM
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Rabbit distress, mouse.....shot a young one last year on rabbit. He ran in so fast I didn't think there was anyway I'd get him to stop. Seriously, they hunt hard now while they're learning like you're seeing. I have noticed that a little hunting pressure makes them a little scarce.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7276949 09/05/18 02:02 AM
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They don't look mangy either. Looks like some time spent calling is needed. Good news is the pups will have to find new hunting areas pretty soon.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277002 09/05/18 03:00 AM
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High fence and I can understand the concerns, deer donít have anywhere to escape and coyotes will know that as well as you do. Low fence and itís just part of nature. Studies out east have shown similar fawn recruitment with heavy coyote hunting vs none. In some areas where there are not any known coyotes yet, fawn recruitment is similar to areas with heavy coyote pressure. Raises the question are they actually killing healthy fawns or just doing work for you to reduce the sick and dead ones? Also, studies of heavy coyote hunting didnít reduce overall numbers as different coyotes simply moved into the area.

Similar studies found fawn survival in the first month was very environmental in nature (rain, cold, etc). Natures gonna do what nature wants to

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277027 09/05/18 03:26 AM
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Heck itís a HF, them coyotes canít get away, it is like fish in a barrel. bolt
Clearly I am kidding. But snaring holes under the fence we were able to eliminate a few coyotes that got in.


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277031 09/05/18 03:41 AM
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Ive killed 5 coyotes in the last month. Still seeing a lot of fawns at night with the thermal. I watched a group of 5 for the other night with 3 fawns with them.


Originally Posted by bill oxner
I plowed mules.
Originally Posted by Roll-Tide
I did build a cabin. Aka the brokeback shack.

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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: Simple Searcher] #7277189 09/05/18 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: Simple Searcher
Heck itís a HF, them coyotes canít get away, it is like fish in a barrel. bolt
Clearly I am kidding. But snaring holes under the fence we were able to eliminate a few coyotes that got in.



We have very few holes under our fence, and all of those have snares. The hunting them part is a matter of time. I just don't have it. Gonna look into hiring someone who does predator control after we fly the ranch in November. That is IF I'm seeing very low fawn numbers and or lots of predators.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277227 09/05/18 01:17 PM
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Much to our dismay and contrary to our efforts we have a large and in charge coyote population and in the 11 years we have owned the place we have never been close to a 0% fawn crop. I don't like seeing them either, but they are as natural as the deer are.

Last edited by redchevy; 09/05/18 01:17 PM.

It's hell eatin em live
Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277275 09/05/18 01:58 PM
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You have some work to do!

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277297 09/05/18 02:10 PM
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Our fawn recruitment numbrs are coming in about 30% lower than average. Have also found 5 fawn carcasses in the past month. I think the yotes are hammering them this year with the lack of cover.


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: dlrz71] #7277478 09/05/18 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: dlrz71
Cool pic rifle


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: Texas buckeye] #7277486 09/05/18 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
High fence and I can understand the concerns, deer donít have anywhere to escape and coyotes will know that as well as you do. Low fence and itís just part of nature. Studies out east have shown similar fawn recruitment with heavy coyote hunting vs none. In some areas where there are not any known coyotes yet, fawn recruitment is similar to areas with heavy coyote pressure. Raises the question are they actually killing healthy fawns or just doing work for you to reduce the sick and dead ones? Also, studies of heavy coyote hunting didnít reduce overall numbers as different coyotes simply moved into the area.

Similar studies found fawn survival in the first month was very environmental in nature (rain, cold, etc). Natures gonna do what nature wants to
even low fence is a problem,have seen videos that yotes have pursued deer until it is fatigued and can't get away


hold on Newt, we got a runaway
Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277509 09/05/18 05:02 PM
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And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.

And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277544 09/05/18 05:38 PM
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Chootem rifle Rancher up the road from me said he is seeing plenty of does, very few fawns he think yotes are getting them bang


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277574 09/05/18 06:03 PM
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Coyotes take down way more deer than most people realize. Way more. I managed a ranch that had a predator wire and a concrete footer down 16" to keep predators out. Fawn crops were huge no matter what the weather was like every year. We had bobcats but with no cattle the grass was very tall and full of rats/mice/rabbits, so the bobcats had plenty. The last 3 yrs we shot the adult doe numbers down. We then started shooting doe fawns the first year. Based on what we thought we had for does and the amount of doe fawns killed each year, we knew we were getting over a 125% fawn crop every year and probably closer to 150%. We could also tell by the amount of yearling bucks each year. We kept pulling adult doe numbers down based off the fawn numbers to were it was more manageable. In bad drought times a doe might walk away from a fawn if she only has enough feed to keep her alive. Some does will stay hide and bones to raise a fawn(s). The key with any fawn crop is fawning cover IME.


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: Texas buckeye] #7277589 09/05/18 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.

And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer.

Interesting read.
http://www.northamericanwhitetail.com/conservation/much-impact-predators-whitetails/


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Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: fouzman] #7277594 09/05/18 06:13 PM
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Fawning cover and edge cover is what I have read/learned. Fawns need edges to be able to evade and escape from predators.

But yes, cover is number one on the list of things to do to improve fawn recruitment. predator control is in the list for sure, but not nearly as important as cover. maternal health is probably equal to or more important than predator control.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: Texas buckeye] #7277608 09/05/18 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Texas buckeye
And I have personally seen coyotes run past deer while the deer pay no concern to the coyotes due to the abundance of small game for the coyotes to eat. Its nature, let nature do its thing.

And to the video of coyotes running down a deer, the question is always raised, was that a sick or injured deer to start? No way to tell I know, but almost every biologist you speak to will tell you NOT to shoot coyotes if you are trying to grow trophy deer as they keep the mouths to feed less, thereby allowing the mature deer to grow bigger. Let nature take out the unhealthy weak ones and you are left with healthier stronger deer.

This was not a unhealthy Ibex.

Re: Disheartening Trailcam Photo [Re: stxranchman] #7277610 09/05/18 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: stxranchman
The key with any fawn crop is fawning cover IME.


Im a believer we have no stock on our property, lots of cover and tall grass year round.


It's hell eatin em live
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