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Mar 25th, 2012
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Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area #7274895 09/02/18 10:43 PM
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Toxarch Online Content OP
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I have the guns, I have the suppressors, I have a gen3 nightvision mono. I really want a thermal scope for pig hunting. Right now we hunt pigs probably twice a month outside of deer season. All the pigs are nocturnal almost all year so we use green feeder lights and green lights on our rifles. It works alright, but they definitely can see the green and I want to go IR/thermal. Our feeders are 100-125 yards and many times the pigs will approach from the far side. And most of the property is open hay field so a longer shot is quite possible.

So what am I am looking for is of course a good scope. 640 chip would be preferred. 30 Hz could be OK, 50-60Hz preferred.
A battery pack would be required, internal preferred, external could be acceptable. I definitely do not want to be running though bought single use batteries. I often spend 5 hours in the stand waiting on pigs.
Digital recording is required. I want to be able to download the video and share at least with friends or watch it again later. The recoil record feature seems nice.
Some optical zoom is preferred. At least some native zoom.
Black/white hot is fine. The rainbow looks cool, but I don't want it if it will add a lot to the price. I think FLIR has the outline mode and that looks interesting.
QD mount would be nice but not required.

So what should I be looking at and comparing? I think the Pulsar Trail XP50 might fit that the best. I like that PIP feature. The Armasight Zeus 640 might work but I am not wild about the external digital recording device. FLIR Thermosight Pro PTS736 seems to be the same thing with a 320 chip. Anything else I should be looking at? Anything cheaper and just as good?


It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower
Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7274900 09/02/18 10:56 PM
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And if you think the Trail XQ50 will be fine, then feel free to say so. I'm all about saving some money. My longest shot might be 300 yards. More than that and I will move a lot closer first.


It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower
Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7274993 09/03/18 12:51 AM
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If you want internal video Pulsar Trail XQ50 if you don't care about video but may later on Get the Apex XQ50 and can add DVR if you want video. If you aren't happy with those then dish out a couple extra grand and get a Reap IR

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275008 09/03/18 01:21 AM
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If you can swing it, you won’t be disappointed in the Trail XP50. I have the Apex XQ38, and love it, can’t imagine how nice the XP50 would be.

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275010 09/03/18 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: BigPig
Took the Apex XQ38 out tonight. 88 degrees and 52% humidity. I was watching 2 raccoons at 120 yards. When they stood up the definition was outstanding. Was able to watch one spin the feeder and the other hand things to another one. It really is a great unit for $2499

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275052 09/03/18 02:47 AM
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I've got the Flir PTS 233 and my Pulsar XP50 should be coming in this week at DSG Arms in Ft.Worth. I figured I can use my PVS 14 or the Flir as a scanner. But I can also mount on rifles for friends to use. I've heard nothing but great things about the Trail XP 50. From what I've read, the firmware upgrade records sound too.

Last edited by Tye; 09/03/18 02:48 AM.

Originally Posted By: AmoCuernos
If you shoot a young deer because a neighbor will shoot it, you are that neighbor.
Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275126 09/03/18 04:45 AM
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If you can swing a 640 resolution that is the way to go, no doubt. Do not get a 320, it will just frustrate you. Also, on mine I switched the setting from 60 Hz to 30 Hz and I can't tell any noticeable difference, even on running pigs. External battery is a must...I went through probably 100 batteries before I just bought a rechargeable battery pack that lasts 15 hours. Nothing more frustrating than being about to pull the trigger and the battery goes out.

You can get a IR Mark 2 for $6500 which is awesome, but for a little less the Pulsar units are very nice as well. I have both.

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275137 09/03/18 05:19 AM
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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275226 09/03/18 01:14 PM
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1 would go with the xp50 or xp38

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275345 09/03/18 03:31 PM
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If you can swing 640 then do it. Wider field of view and clarity at base mag, more useable zoom, better resale value and demand. The pulsar XP units are awesome. We've got several in stock if you get ready to pull the trigger.


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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275365 09/03/18 03:59 PM
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By all your requirements listed you pretty much described the Pulsar Trail. The XP50 is the logical choice as others have said but the one hang up is that you want some optical magnification and mentioned shots out to 300 yards. The XP50 is only 1.6x optical and that is going to limit you on those longer shots and force you to use digital zoom. The XQ50 with the 2.7x optical is the better choice for the longer range shots over 150 but you are giving up the 640 resolution.

I'd make this choice based on how much optical magnification you think you need. If the 1.6x is enough, you will love the XP50. But if you're going to be using the digital zoom on it all the time you'd be better off going with the XQ50.

Jason


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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275393 09/03/18 04:32 PM
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I gotta disagree a little bit there. By design a 640 in the same lens size is going to always outperform a lower resolution at the same magnification level.

Even though the XQ50 is 2.7 at base magnification, that doesn't tell the full story. You're looking at a 384x288 image or 110,592 pixels.

The XP50 at base mag of 1.6 and 640x480, you're looking at 307,200 pixels.

The biggest advantage of higher resolution is the ability to digitally zoom while maintaining clarity.

When zoomed to 50% of the magnification range digitally, you are still looking at a 320x240 quality image at roughly 6.4x magnification.

When zoomed to 2.7x, the XP50 will have used 9.82% of it's magnification range (digitally). At 2.7X you're still looking at an image comprised of 277,033 pixels or 577 x 432 resolution.



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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275403 09/03/18 04:38 PM
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Also 300 is a far patch for most any thermal. Shooting 300 at night is kind of like shooting 600 in the day. It can be done but it's tough and takes practice. Thermal reticles aren't nearly as precise as fine day glass either and usually don't have as good of reticles so far as the design goes. After all we're dealing with pixels vs etched glass.

Last edited by MDMORROW; 09/03/18 04:39 PM.

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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275414 09/03/18 04:46 PM
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Also, don't get hung up on the color pallets. Most of those are nothing more than marketing. In practice you'll find that black hot for shooting and white hot for spotting are where it's at. The majority of the higher end thermals nowadays don't even include color pallets. The only exception I've found to be very useful is the flir outdoor alert mode for spotting. It's a hybrid mode as best as I can describe it. Basically a blackhot field but the hottest object shows up orange colored. Good for a spotter but doesn't do much for you when shooting. Pulsar now has a similar pallet built into their helion spotters.

Last edited by MDMORROW; 09/03/18 04:47 PM.

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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275513 09/03/18 06:47 PM
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I have run the FLIR RS 32 units, played with multiple other brands, like the Armasight (FLIR internals) and ATN scopes. By far the Pulsar units are much better. The image quality and features of the Pulsar are great. I went with the XP38 Trail model. The 38 has a much larger field of view (FOV) than the XP50. Here's something I wrote previously about them.

The XP38 vs XP50- The main difference between the 2 will be the objective lens size (38mm vs 50mm). The 38 has a magnification range of 1.2x-9.6x. The 50mm has 1.2 to 12.8x. I never go above about 4 or 6, since you get a tunnel vision in the scope. I want to see more (FOV). But, the major difference for me is the field of view. I want as much FOV as possible. The 38mm has 16.3 degree and the 50mm has 12.4. And the horizontal view is much less on the 50. I have included links of both models below so you can compare the 2. Which model you want would be based on how you hunt. We drive around a lot in a truck or in a Polaris scanning, so I want as much FOV as possible. So the 38 model is for me. The picture quality is the same between the 2. But the 50mm has a larger lens, so it does draw in more detail, but that detail is in a much more narrow FOV. The XP38 Trail model that I use and hunt with is absolutely awesome. I hunt with several other shooters who use the exact same XP38 Trail scope also. If you plan to sit in a blind and only hunt a feeder, then the 50mm would work fine. But with a thermal, you do a lot of scanning around and a larger FOV is more useful for me. I've hunted with the FLIR RS32 models, ATN models, and Armasight (FLIR internals), and none of them compare to the Pulsar. Anything with FLIR internals will not be as good as the Pulsar. And the Armasights are known to have issues and break often (that's why you hear their "customer service is great". I'd rather not have to use their CS.

http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/thermal-imaging-sights-trail/thermal-imaging-sight-trail-xp38/

http://www.pulsar-nv.com/products/thermal-imaging-sights-trail/thermal-imaging-s ight-trail-xp50/



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Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7275771 09/04/18 12:04 AM
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Save a bit more money and get a MKIII 60MM. 300 Yards at night is not gonna happen with 1.2 or 1.6 base magnification.

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: DocHorton] #7275919 09/04/18 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: DocHorton


This^^^^
Use it for a while. If it suits your needs keep it as is. If not send it in and upgrade to the 60mm lens.

Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7276035 09/04/18 06:49 AM
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Thanks for all the input. That Trijicon Mk II would be great if it had an on-board DVR. While the Mk III would be nice, I can't consider it an option. I can afford it but I'm not increasing the budget that much. I've been watching videos and reviews and I think the Pulsar XP50 is probably the one I will be going with. The 300 yard shot would be rare so if it can't do it, not a big deal. Inside of 150 yards would be most hunts.


It is far more important to be able to hit the target than it is to haggle over who makes a weapon or who pulls a trigger.

— Dwight D. Eisenhower
Re: Looking for Thermal scope in $5k area [Re: Toxarch] #7276318 09/04/18 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Toxarch
...I've been watching videos and reviews and I think the Pulsar XP50 is probably the one I will be going with. The 300 yard shot would be rare so if it can't do it, not a big deal. Inside of 150 yards would be most hunts.


Excellent choice and you won't be disappointed!

Jason


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