texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed, Trappernewt, casyoo
71987 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,413
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,764
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics536,987
Posts9,719,150
Members86,987
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: dee] #7251353 08/10/18 03:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G. Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
Originally Posted By: dee
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Slowing them down sufficiently seems like the solution to me. I wonder if that might even help get them through heavy bone.


Running 115 vld from a 25-06 at 3100 has been nothing but a hammer on stuff.


Diameter versus length, perhaps? Compared to a 168 gr 7mm, in a 7 Rem Mag. Not good for BC, may be good for terminal performance.

Put that 168 in a 7mm-08, and I bet it'll do better. I know 162 Hornady's do terrific.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251389 08/10/18 04:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
D
dee Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,219
Maybe. I used target bergers in others but those have a thicker jacket.


"A vote is like a rifle; it's usefulness depends on the character of the user" Theodore Roosevelt
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251403 08/10/18 04:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
What's got me scratching my head on these though, is the crazy inconsistencies. Some 6.5mm 140 VLD-H bullets out of a 6.5x284 running 3K fps have ice picked through game, meaning no expansion at all. I've had good info on this with some other fast rounds in the 6.5mm. But put the VLD-H in a 300 Win Mag with a 190 or 210 grain VLD-H, and they work freaking awesome, like a normal fast expansion VLD should.

Another thing to consider on these... When loading the VLD bullets, the bullet jump to the lands is a very important measurement. I like to seat the ogive just touching the rifling, so I measure these when I load them. I have seen as high as .040" difference between the bullet lengths when keeping the same ogive measurement. So, the bullet itself is longer or shorter and the nose profile of the bullet changed. Not only does this effect the BC, but this can effect the placement of the lead inside and how much lead (or no lead) is in the hollow point part of the cavity. I'm thinking this variation could effect how the bullet performs on soft tissue. I don't know.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251480 08/10/18 05:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G. Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
Why are you scratching your head?
190's and 210's out of a .300 Win Mag are coming out slower than the 140's out of a 6.5-284.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251496 08/10/18 06:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
Why are some 6.5mm 140's blowing up and some ice picking through?


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251500 08/10/18 06:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G. Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
Did the blown up ones hit heavy bone? How fast was their muzzle velocity. How fast was the MV of the ice pick bullets?


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251503 08/10/18 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
C
ChadTRG42 Offline OP
THF Celebrity
OP Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,907
6.5x284, 26 Nosler, down to 6.5 CM and 260 Rem rounds. Large velocity differences between those. I've seen ice pick results, as well as extreme fragmentation on these.


[Linked Image]
Custom and Precision Ammunition!!
https://DallasReloads.com/
Type 01 and Type 06 FFL
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251515 08/10/18 06:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787
B
Buzzsaw Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,787
i had the elite hunter ice pick


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251744 08/10/18 11:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Offline
junior
Offline
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Why are some 6.5mm 140's blowing up and some ice picking through?


Good question Chad. I have experienced both with 140gr VLD hunting bullets started at just over 2900fps and shots about 175 an 250. The Doe I mentioned in the other post that bullet penciled through a bit of lung then came apart while exiting through one rib. The one that blew up on the elk 2 inches further back would have been fine most likely but it hit tough leg mussel then heavier rib area and came apart from elk hid, tough leg mussel and what resistance the rib cage offered. Had it continued it punched through that it would have been a nice heart shot.

meat was blown away from the bone and there was a large cavity there of destruction but that was the last critter I will shoot those bullets at unless it is coyote or such.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251810 08/11/18 12:47 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,073
RedSnake Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 4,073
Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42
Why are some 6.5mm 140's blowing up and some ice picking through?


Gotta make sure the hollow point is hollow and not crimped or filled with lead. Use a thumb tack/push pin to check. Broz over on longrangeonly.com and longrangehunting.com forums has a ton of info about it and their terminal performance

Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251818 08/11/18 12:53 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,872
T
Teal28 Online Happy
Extreme Tracker
Online Happy
Extreme Tracker
T
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,872
I run 168’s in my 308 at 2710fps and 140’s in my 270 at 2830and 210’s in my 300 win at 2910fps. I have shot several deer and hogs with all 3. Always high shoulder on the deer and neck or behind the shoulder in the pigs. Never had one not expand/frag and come out the other side.
I did read of the penciling issue on another site a while back. Think it was the 140’s in the 6.5.
Could it just be a bad lot that got out?


Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251842 08/11/18 01:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,089
B
Brother in-law Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 35,089
I’ve been using 6.5 130 vldh for the last 5 years with no issues and no tracking jobs.

Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7251855 08/11/18 01:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
J
jeffbird Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
J
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
Would be helpful to discuss velocity at impact rather than or in addition to muzzle velocity, if possible.

Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: jeffbird] #7251857 08/11/18 01:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,487
syncerus Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,487
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Would be helpful to discuss velocity at impact rather than or in addition to muzzle velocity, if possible.


This. Muzzle velocity isn't the key indicator here: it's the impact velocity.


NRA Patriot Benefactor & DSC Lifer
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: syncerus] #7251868 08/11/18 02:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G. Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
Originally Posted By: syncerus
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Would be helpful to discuss velocity at impact rather than or in addition to muzzle velocity, if possible.


This. Muzzle velocity isn't the key indicator here: it's the impact velocity.


Many of us assumed everyone knew a higher muzzle velocity meant a higher impact velocity.

As was said earlier, slow it down at the muzzle, for close shots, or shoot high MV loads at farther impact distances.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: J.G.] #7251940 08/11/18 03:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
J
jeffbird Offline
Extreme Tracker
Offline
Extreme Tracker
J
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
Originally Posted By: FiremanJG
Originally Posted By: syncerus
Originally Posted By: jeffbird
Would be helpful to discuss velocity at impact rather than or in addition to muzzle velocity, if possible.


This. Muzzle velocity isn't the key indicator here: it's the impact velocity.


Many of us assumed everyone knew a higher muzzle velocity meant a higher impact velocity.

As was said earlier, slow it down at the muzzle, for close shots, or shoot high MV loads at farther impact distances.


Obviously, as well as distance, bc, and DA, but determining the actual velocity at impact may help reveal patterns of what causes fragmentation, pencilling, and good performance.

There are scenarios where a lower MV, still will have a higher impact velocity. Example changing MV as the only variable - 308 Win with 185 Juggs at say 2600 MV at 100 yards will have the same impact velocity, 2444 fps,
than the same bullet from a 300 Win Mag at 2900 at 285. Move the 300 Win Mag out to 350, and the impact velocity will be lower than the 308 at 100. So it is helpful to punch numbers to determine the actual impact velocity for this discussion.

And I know you and Chad know that just putting it out for general discussion.


Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7252053 08/11/18 01:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
None of that is surprising. They are like any other delicate bullet - when they perform they perform spectacularly (which is most of the time). But when they fail, they fail spectacularly also. They also have the propensity of needlessly destroying a lot of meat.

I would personally never use them on anything but varmints. Why risk a failure when there are better options like the ELD-X?


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #7252095 08/11/18 01:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,501
R
RiverRider Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Confused
THF Trophy Hunter
R
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,501
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
None of that is surprising. They are like any other delicate bullet - when they perform they perform spectacularly (which is most of the time). But when they fail, they fail spectacularly also. They also have the propensity of needlessly destroying a lot of meat.

I would personally never use them on anything but varmints. Why risk a failure when there are better options like the ELD-X?



My thoughts, nearly word for word.

For my money, a bullet that will perform without velocity limitations (at the top end, at least) and expand moderately and retain enough weight to pass through is the way to go. In my world, that's a Partition or Accubond. These may not drop critters in their tracks as often as a frangible bullet does, but I don't mind walking an extra 30 or 40 feet and I have had them DRT. If I wasn't stocked up on Noslers I'd probably try the Hornady.


[Linked Image]

"Arguing with you always makes me thirsty."

-Augustus McRae
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: RiverRider] #7252115 08/11/18 01:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
N
Nogalus Prairie Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
N
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 27,091
Originally Posted By: RiverRider
Originally Posted By: Nogalus Prairie
None of that is surprising. They are like any other delicate bullet - when they perform they perform spectacularly (which is most of the time). But when they fail, they fail spectacularly also. They also have the propensity of needlessly destroying a lot of meat.

I would personally never use them on anything but varmints. Why risk a failure when there are better options like the ELD-X?



My thoughts, nearly word for word.

For my money, a bullet that will perform without velocity limitations (at the top end, at least) and expand moderately and retain enough weight to pass through is the way to go. In my world, that's a Partition or Accubond. These may not drop critters in their tracks as often as a frangible bullet does, but I don't mind walking an extra 30 or 40 feet and I have had them DRT. If I wasn't stocked up on Noslers I'd probably try the Hornady.


That’s me, but BC is important to many of the guys on here. ELD-X is designed for LR so I mentioned that one.

I never will understand the desire for visual “spectacular results”. If the shot is in a vital area with no bone encountered, will any other good bullet not also kill them just as dead? So why not also use a bullet that won’t splatter or disintegrate if one happens to hit a scapula or rib or need to make a quartering-to shot because the animal doesn’t present broadside?

Makes no sense to me.....


Originally Posted by Russ79
I learned long ago you can't reason someone out of something they don't reason themselves into.


Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7252118 08/11/18 01:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
J.G. Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,082
I am not doubting these stories. I do not personally have them via the one rifle I have shooting VLD-Hunting bullets. Mule deer at 50 yards, both lungs, did run 50 yards, and pile up. I never lost line of sight on him. Bull elk (lungs) at 250, cow elk (lungs) at 465, cow elk (brain stem) 510. Yeah, big heavy animals, it ought to work. And I did not hit heavy bone on any of them. Heavy bone on the 50 yard mile deer, and I may have one of these stories.

However, a coyote was crossing my place in December and the 7 Rem Mag was what I had next to me. 300 yards, the coyote was nearly cut in half, so on the light body of a coyote, the bullet still expanded.

I am, admittedly, a bigger fan of the Hornady ELD-X, though. Got 500 brand new ones delivered just yesterday. wink


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: Berger VLD-H (hunting) bullet issues [Re: ChadTRG42] #7253176 08/12/18 05:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15
J
J.D.A Offline
Light Foot
Offline
Light Foot
J
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 15
If any one has 140g 6.5 VLD-H I will gladly take them off of your hands...


offering year round hunting in Texas
Blood tracking available in Junction area 832-948-3572
https://www.huntsintexas.com
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3